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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 6:08:57 AM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So, as for political motivation, I have none.

This should have had a after it, because it's the funniest thing posted in several days.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 7:01:11 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You did not read the figures right

21% favor immediate withdrawl of all troops
33% favor withdrawl over the next year with all the troops out by Dec 31st 2007
this adds up to 54% of Americans favor leaving on Cindy Sheehan's Plan you mentioned

If by "right," you mean through your particular filters and prejudices, that would be correct. I missed the memo about your opinions being definitive though. You are adding apples and oranges to come up with your "54%." As I said earlier, I would have answered in the 'troops home in a year' category, and I think Cindy Sheehan is an idiot.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 7:44:38 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So, as for political motivation, I have none.

This should have had a after it, because it's the funniest thing posted in several days.

I do not know why it is funny to you, I don't have a political motivation as in seeing people elected. That is YOUR political motivation, not mine.

I do have a motivation to see our troops come home that resides in not wanting a draft. My political philosophy is too far left of center to be adopted at this point by mainstream, I know it, I accept it.

Caitlyn, I fail to understand why you are so snarky, but that is your issue and not mine.

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Post #: 63

RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 7:46:58 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You did not read the figures right

21% favor immediate withdrawl of all troops
33% favor withdrawl over the next year with all the troops out by Dec 31st 2007
this adds up to 54% of Americans favor leaving on Cindy Sheehan's Plan you mentioned

If by "right," you mean through your particular filters and prejudices, that would be correct. I missed the memo about your opinions being definitive though. You are adding apples and oranges to come up with your "54%." As I said earlier, I would have answered in the 'troops home in a year' category, and I think Cindy Sheehan is an idiot.

No, I meant that you misquoted the way the figures were presented, but perhaps that was intentional

We both know how the American people feel about Iraq and wanting this war to end ASAP. Now you can twist things anyway you like, but the inescapable fact of the matter is that Americans do not want to see more kids fed to the meat grinder of Iraq.

And I see a year as a very short period of time to scale down operations and withdraw every last American soldier out of that hell hole. Of course I would prefer sooner than later for every last one of them, but to me personally a year is a reasonable amount of time for withdrawl and de-escalation.

Now if you are willing to put Sheehan aside, or get her exact opinion on the matter and post it here, well then that is a moot point. I did not even bring her into the discussion, you did, that is called a red herring.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/7/2007 7:49:18 AM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 9:12:44 AM

caitlyn

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Oh come on ... you are too good a poster to resort to the "why are you so snarky" card. You are just as snarky as me, or any of about 50 poster on this board. Give it a rest. Politics is a contact sport.

I want the killing to stop, just like you. If I had my way, we wouldn't even be in Iraq. I have this strange notion that Americans should take care of America, and let Iraqi's take care of Iraq. But, rushing to cut bait, when we don't even know whats on the line, doesn't make sense to me, and is certainly a political agenda.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 9:52:20 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Oh come on ... you are too good a poster to resort to the "why are you so snarky" card.

Gotta disagree with you on this Caitlyn. You are getting accused of snarkiness and I'm getting the "No I'm not, you are," defense. It is entirely too nice a day for that crap.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 9:55:19 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Oh come on ... you are too good a poster to resort to the "why are you so snarky" card. You are just as snarky as me, or any of about 50 poster on this board. Give it a rest. Politics is a contact sport.

I want the killing to stop, just like you. If I had my way, we wouldn't even be in Iraq. I have this strange notion that Americans should take care of America, and let Iraqi's take care of Iraq. But, rushing to cut bait, when we don't even know whats on the line, doesn't make sense to me, and is certainly a political agenda.

I have never been snarky to you, if you feel me telling you that the military has a political agenda is snarky, well that is your issue Caitlyn. As far as full contact sport, I believe it was you that has bemoaned the snarkiness about the political content of this site, not me. If you think that you are justified being snotty to me because you perceive me as snotty, well two wrongs never made a right.

I made the decision not to get in the mud, if that is where you want to be, that is fine by me, but I am not joining you there. I can communicate an opinion without demonizing people or ridiculing them. Either you want to take the high road, or you do not, that is your choice... just like I make mine.

You and I have differing opinions about the word "agenda".

In this context it would be as follows:

2 : an underlying often ideological plan or program <a political agenda>

Since I have no plan or program I am selling or am in the position to sell my ideas by belonging to a mainstream political party like you do and your military friends do, I fail to see how i have a political agenda. If being pro-peace is having a political agenda, then like other peaceniks I guess I have one.

Often I think like UtopianRanger, fuck it, let you all get drafted and killed and when the dust clears me and mine will inherit the Earth

. I am almost past caring these days Caitlyn. I will just take my beloved child and make sure HE is ok, and let you kids work out your own issues with the right wing. After all, it is your future at stake.

I have no faith in the Democrats. I hope they do what they insinuated that they would do when this last election cycle was going on, but you know what? I doubt it. I know you are a moderate democrat Caitlyn, it maybe what annoys you so about my posts, I am not a moderate anything.

Good luck in the future, and I sincerely hope the draft board does not start if Bush gets his way, but if it does, I would like to thank all of you kids in advance for your forced servitude. As long as it is not my kid, well no skin off my nose, right?

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 10:07:32 AM

caitlyn

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For the love of God ... I wasn't THAT snarky.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:03:25 PM

NaiveTempest

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Uh, Julia, I'm in the military and I'm not "politically motivated", but I WILL do my job. I don't always agree but I made a promise and pledge I intend to keep. So do you mean the military as a whole or just the higher ups?

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:04:52 PM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I have no faith in the Democrats. I hope they do what they insinuated that they would do when this last election cycle was going on, but you know what? I doubt it.

Until I see the U.S. out of Iraq and Universal Healthcare as a functioning reality then it's all just bullshit talk. The Dems are rethug-lite, and sadly have been for some time. We are entering a world where status quo socio-econo-political thinking will not do. I don't believe that there are actually billions of really good jobs in our world of technology and automation. And while I don't normally talk about what I do for a living on these boards - you can actually blame people like me for the technology and automation part. Technology and automation could have created utopia; instead it is more likely to create devastation.

Millions, probably billions, are about to die. The will, the generosity of spirit, and the resources just aren't there. 2% of the world's population want it all, and they aren't going to let billions of deaths stand in their way.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:10:36 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NaiveTempest

Uh, Julia, I'm in the military and I'm not "politically motivated", but I WILL do my job. I don't always agree but I made a promise and pledge I intend to keep. So do you mean the military as a whole or just the higher ups?

My post was specifically to Caitlyn. Of the friends and family that she mentioned in previous posts, one of them was a Colonel. I would call that a fairly high ranking personage. She stated that she did not want to take anything people on a message board had to say because it conflicts with what she knows from others in the military. That is fine, but those people have as much of a political agenda, or more of one than anyone here... I was just pointing that out. I do not blame her for trusting people she knows, but just challenged the reasoning behind stating we were all politically motivated, and her friends are not.

It was not a blanket statement about everyone in the military.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:21:55 PM

NaiveTempest

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You and I have differing opinions about the word "agenda".

In this context it would be as follows:

2 : an underlying often ideological plan or program <a political agenda>

Since I have no plan or program I am selling or am in the position to sell my ideas by belonging to a mainstream political party like you do and your military friends do, I fail to see how i have a political agenda. If being pro-peace is having a political agenda, then like other peaceniks I guess I have one.

According to Merriam-Webster the definition of "ideological" is relating to or concerning with ideas.
So I think that you HAVE presented an agenda. And since this topic is about political matters then it could reasonably be called an "political" agenda. So while you may not be one of the ones in power, you've already stated "....but to me personally a year is a reasonable amount of time for withdrawl and de-escalation." That to me implies that you have formulated a type of rough plan in your head. You many not be selling it but with these post you are advertising it. Or you can look at it in terms of a debate, which (to me) is when one party is try to sell their ideas/agenda to another party or at least the audience or bystanders watching the debate.
I've never seen/read a post with you this heated before. Take a chill pill and calm down a little.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:26:46 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Take a chill pill and calm down a little.

I believe you need to stop projecting your emotional states on to me.

I did state that if people feel the need to lump all peaceniks as having an agenda, then I guess I have one.

If you plan on going through every single post of mine to find inconsistencies due to your own agenda I am more than willing to play ball

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:30:33 PM

NaiveTempest

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Cool, thanks for clearing that up. I truly hope everyone stops attacking each other on this post. But that is the nature of a debate huh? They get heated sometimes. I hope you don't take offense with my other post I just have never read a post with you so "fired up" before, it kinda surpised me.

To everyone: I understand and respect everyones view points here and think that what is being written on this post is a small representation of what is being argued all across America. But, like another poster has stated we WILL be in Iraq for a long time so get use to it people. We're still in so many countries (still DYING in so many other countries) that in a way I "dislike" the fact that everyone seems so focused on just Iraq. Even when most of the tropps are withdrawn, I'm sure an American presence will still remain, just like we're still in Afganistan. It's all just a matter of WHEN the withdrawal of most of our troops will happen.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:36:42 PM

NaiveTempest

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WOW you ARE being snarky. People can't even be nice and try to post calmly to you. I don't feel emotional about this at all, but YOU seem to be very much so if you're gonna attack everyone. Thanks for making this post such a riot. I'll be sure to take my "emotional agenda" somewhere were people don't mind others being nice to them.

Tsk, tsk how depressing....I need some Zoloft or Prozac now.

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 12:37:10 PM

juliaoceania

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I have strong opinions about Iraq because my son will be draftable soon. I guess I do have one agenda, making it very politically unpopular for us to continue a war in Iraq, and make a draft even more unpopular. My son would be eligible for conscientious objector status anyways because he has been to peace movement meetings and the like since this conflict began

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 2:43:17 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

Uh, Julia, I'm in the military and I'm not "politically motivated", but I WILL do my job. I don't always agree but I made a promise and pledge I intend to keep. So do you mean the military as a whole or just the higher ups?

Let's say, that the Successful Invasion and Failed Occupation of Iraq was founded on numerous violations of 18 USC 371, Conspiracy to Defraud the United States. ( Ex US Attorney Elizabeth De La Vega makes an outstanding case for this btw... )

Since the Commander in Chief and Cabinet have committed High Crimes, is it LAWFUL for you to follow any orders they may give relating to the fraudulent occupation of Iraq?

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 2:46:26 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

we WILL be in Iraq for a long time so get use to it people.

Why? Didn't the Republicans lose both the house and senate as a wholesale rejection of the Iraq policy?

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 3:10:40 PM

LotusSong

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All they are asking is to see a plan this time. They are not going to grant him a blank check like his buddies have done from the onset of the war. They are making him lay out his plan and present it. There had been no checks and balances going on. The cruelest thing they are doing is making him do it right.

You guys always do say it takes a woman to clean a house. Well, we are doing what we do best :)

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 4:36:27 PM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NaiveTempest

WOW you ARE being snarky. People can't even be nice and try to post calmly to you. I don't feel emotional about this at all, but YOU seem to be very much so if you're gonna attack everyone. Thanks for making this post such a riot. I'll be sure to take my "emotional agenda" somewhere were people don't mind others being nice to them.

Tsk, tsk how depressing....I need some Zoloft or Prozac now.

Welcome to the boards NT. Actually, this is nothing new and kinda mild compared to when things really get rolling. The hypocrisy can get downright stunning sometimes, not to mention the venom.

I just happen to really enjoy online needle play.

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