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Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/5/2007 11:48:28 PM   
Presidentialwhor


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		okay, i chose to do a part II of this topic becuase while i am not in the SAME situation as the starter of the other topic, but it can easily be the same situation. My Sir lent me to a group of friends...(He was still present in the room) and He let them...(well im not going to lay it all out, i think we all might know lol).

the thing is, i know i was doing it for Him, however, i could not get into it. He told me that i could cum, but for some reason, i couldn't. well, i think i might have came once...but that was FORCED...

was there something wrong for me, i feel terrible that i couldn't do what He asked me too do...i dont know what was wrong. i just kept telling myself i am doing it for Him, but i really didn't enjoy it.

W/we talked about it and discuss what happened and the such...but i still feel bad for some reason. Not, bad but weird or something. 

has anyone else experienced this?
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 2:22:11 AM   
Zsuzsanna


Posts: 108
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline 		You probably couldn't get into it because it wasn't "your thing". And you probably felt bad beacuse you thought you weren't pleasing Him.  I don't know what it is to be in this situation, but I can understand how you feel.

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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 2:50:17 AM   
akbarbarian


Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		Anxiety isn't great for sexual performance and arousal.  Unless you have fundamental problems with what you were asked to do, I wouldn't worry about your not getting that into it your first time around.

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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 4:25:36 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Additionally, there's always the first time issue that you can run across. For me, the first time I do something, I'm not usually as comfortable as in subsequent efforts. In my case, I usually end up putting it down to the conflict between "socially acceptable" and "because he said so." It takes time to understand that "socially acceptable" doesn't mean right and "because he said so" doesn't mean wrong.

Course, the other thing that is sometimes forgotten in the rush to put your submissive in difficult situations to see how she'll perform is that other men who are given the opportunity to just "do someone" generally aren't looking after her physical pleasure anyway.

And then, on the other hand, I've also never figured out the difference between a "forced" orgasm and one that happens naturally. If someone touches me the right way, I'm orgasming. I don't understand this whole "forced" concept. Might it be that right now, you're feeling the pinch between what you have been raised to think (that sex with someone other than your partner should not feel good) and what you experienced (that sex was ok, you came once, but all things being equal, you'd much prefer your Master)?

I can't know your state of mind about all this, but considering what had been done, and the conflicts it might set up inside you, before you write the whole experience off as "not your thing," you might want to give some thought to whatever conflicts you might have to overcome here.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 1/6/2007 4:26:34 AM >

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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 4:36:16 AM   
Presidentialwhor


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		you are right about the part about me perferring my Sir. im not going to totally write it off, but that was just not a good experience to me. the socially moral aspect doesnt have anything to do with it..really. 

as far as the forced orgasm...i mean..i had to really think of some nasty thoughts...to get it out...because i wanted to save it for Him but He told me to cum....(even though i really didn't want too) so to please Him, i forced myself to cum. ( i dont know if that made any sense hope it did).

i think W/we both learned from the situation though...so i guess that is good *shrugs* (soft chuckle)

but yeah, i just felt so terrible afterwards you know.  that is where the topic submissive guilt comes in.

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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 4:40:30 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Presidentialwhor

as far as the forced orgasm...i mean..i had to really think of some nasty thoughts...to get it out...because i wanted to save it for Him but He told me to cum....(even though i really didn't want too) so to please Him, i forced myself to cum. ( i dont know if that made any sense hope it did).



It made sense.

juliet

(in reply to Presidentialwhor)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 5:53:05 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I have issues with that whole "because He told me to" logic (when applied to specific things) and I agree with juliet that, from what I've seen, there is a rush to put a submissive in a difficult situation to see how she will perform.  Everyone's dynamic is diffierent and he may have pushed you too far, too fast.  Perhaps, you may have felt differently with one friend as opposed to "a group" of friends.  Or, perhaps, it's not your thing.  Or, perhaps, it may take more than once to feel comfortable with it.  Of course, I also have problems with "guilt".  I just don't get guilt.  If I can do something, I do it.  If I can't, I explain and we talk about it.  I may see that I was looking at it all wrong or whatever and it's not at all what I thought originally.  Does that make sense?

(in reply to Presidentialwhor)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 7:40:03 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't experienced it

But understand... guilt is a result of feeling like you did something wrong.  So what specifically did you feel like you did wrong?

Was it because you didn't enjoy the experience?

Was it because you did the experience?

Was it because you resent your Master for having you do the experience?

Was it something else?

Answering what you feel you did wrong is not really important to addres here.... but it is with your Master.  In my thoughts, you to work through what you feel you did wrong.  Maybe what think you did wrong or failed at is based on unrealistic expectations. IE, I think it is unrealistic to think you or anyone is going to find pleasure or enjoyment each and everytime you engage in some form of play... be it Sex, BDSM or Monopoly. Finding the strength to Accept things as is.... will help you find the way to move past guilt and other negative emotions.


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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Presidentialwhor)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 7:44:35 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		KoM makes a very good point.  It is unrealistic to think that you are going to find pleasure in each and every thing.  Maybe just accept things as they are now and talk them over with him.  Perhaps, you are feeling guilt for no reason.  He may be very pleased with you, but you'll never know until you discuss it with him.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 8:11:39 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		yes i have experienced that feeling, and for me it was because i did not want to like it too much in front of my owner...i might be off but i think most women are conditioned to be a little worried about their partners reaction when it comes to sex with others....most men (IMO) want to hear they are the best lover, the biggest, the longest lasting the best pleaser ect...
 
we tend to shelter men for fear that their egos are so fragile they would disintegrate. we are told it is the worst thing to say to a man if he is not the best and that we could do "irreparable psychological damage" if we say the truth.
 
we shelter them both verbally and also with our bodies, you may have programed your body to not enjoy it because you may have subconsciously seen your enjoyment as a threat to your relationship, which you have prioritized over a temporary feeling of sexual ecstasy, which btw, i think is a natural mature female reaction.
 
i think your guilt may have something to do with these aspects of human behavior and social conditioning....but its only  (excuse the  pun) a shot in the dark.




< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 1/6/2007 8:16:33 AM >

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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 8:33:02 AM   
Presidentialwhor


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I haven't experienced it

But understand... guilt is a result of feeling like you did something wrong.  So what specifically did you feel like you did wrong?

Was it because you didn't enjoy the experience?
It was more so that  i didn't really enjoy it.

Was it because you did the experience?
That is the thing, when i was in the vanilla lifestyle, i participated in something like this, so i didn't understand why i felt this way.

Was it because you resent your Master for having you do the experience?
No,  i wouldn't say that i resented Him.

Was it something else?

Answering what you feel you did wrong is not really important to addres here.... but it is with your Master.  In my thoughts, you to work through what you feel you did wrong.  Maybe what think you did wrong or failed at is based on unrealistic expectations. IE, I think it is unrealistic to think you or anyone is going to find pleasure or enjoyment each and everytime you engage in some form of play... be it Sex, BDSM or Monopoly. Finding the strength to Accept things as is.... will help you find the way to move past guilt and other negative emotions.





as far as crouching's post is concern..well, it could be that...even though...i wasn't even focused on the other guys so i really didn't even see any faces..(i wasn't blindfolded or anything i just wasn't looking at them) so i as far as them being a threat to our relationship...nah, i dont think it was like that on THAT aspect.   In a way i did, wonder what He was thinking of me at the time....i guess that is natural.



and yes bandit, i think the "group" vs. the "friend" issue has a part of play in it also.


But again W/we did talk about it afterwards...and He is going to re-evaluate somethings...



(okay i must admit that one of them were very cute...i didn't totally dismiss their faces) *soft chuckle*

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 8:57:43 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Guilt comes from feeling that you didn't meet a person's expectations, be they someone else's or your own. Now you know how you will react in this kind of situation. Your Master knows, too. For him or you to expect you to react differently to something that just doesn't sexually excite you would now be unfair. I mean, if a gay slave was given to a Female Master for a night of sex and pleasure and he didn't get hard, has he done something wrong? No. He's simply not attracted to women. Same thing for you and being used by a group.

Master Fire


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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 9:21:58 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Presidentialwhor
was there something wrong for me, i feel terrible that i couldn't do what He asked me too do...i dont know what was wrong. i just kept telling myself i am doing it for Him, but i really didn't enjoy it.


I have, but in a different situation.  I have felt guilty for failing to perfectly do what my Master wanted of me.  Sure I did it, but I struggled and made mistakes, so I felt like I had failed him as a result. 

I posted this last night on a different thread.  Maybe it will help you here:

"My Master and I had a conversation about something very similar tonight.  I was telling him that recently I thought I had failed him because I made mistakes in performing something for him, and didn't handle things so well.  But in reality I didn't fail at all, because I never gave up trying.  The success was in my wanting to succeed for him, and in my continual attempts to get it right, without giving up.  I told him I can not unequivocally state that from this day forward I will always do exactly as he wants me to, because as a human being I will stumble, make mistakes, and have physical limitations.  But what I can tell him is that I will always strive to give him exactly what he wants, and if I stumble or err, I will keep trying.  I thought I failed before because I had failed at being perfect...and setting myself up for perfection is setting myself up to fail. 

He agreed with this, and said what is most endearing to him is watching me do whatever it takes to "get it right" for him.  He said a girl who, when told to walk a mile balancing a bucket of water on her head, struggles, drops it, picks it back up, and never gives up, simply because she wants to please him, will be far more endearing to him than a girl who can carry a bucket effortlessly and with little meaning to it.  For him it's all about will and attitude."

The question is, do you feel guilty because you think you failed him?  And, did you really fail him if you gave it your best effort to make it work?  Also, there are things we are called upon to do that we do not find enjoyable.  I do not believe that whether or not we enjoy something determines our success.  Juliet made a good point (as usual) - sometimes the first time we experience something for someone carries anxieties with it that might get in the way of the full experience. 

I have also found that those things I used to enjoy while "vanilla" mean little to me anymore, since my Master came into my life.  Where it may have been fulfilling to me to engage in certain acts with others, such activities have little value to me anymore, because they are not with my Master.  For this reason, I can not compare my former life to my current place.

Keep talking to your Master about this.  Examining your thoughts and feelings about the situation will reveal what you both need to know about it.

Edited to add - I don't really subscribe to the "not my thing" way of thinking.  Anything my Master wants of me becomes "my thing."  He has his reasons for wanting them, and I have a responsibility to work through my issues (with his help, if necessary) and provide them.  This is obviously not everyone's approach, but it is certainly the case in my dynamic with my Master.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 1/6/2007 9:24:16 AM >

(in reply to Presidentialwhor)
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RE: Submissive Guilt pt. II - 1/6/2007 2:58:31 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Guilt comes from feeling that you didn't meet a person's expectations, be they someone else's or your own.


I disagree..... you speaking of Disappointment

Disappointment is a feeling of dissatisfication when expecations are not realized.  IE.  I didn't pass a test and feel disappointment as result.

Guilt is a feeling of dissatisfaction of doing something wrong.  IE.. I cheated on a test and feel guilt as result

The two feelings can co-exist from the same situation... but they also exist independently.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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