Am I being unreasonable?

Am I being unreasonable? (Full Version)

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defiantbadgirl -> Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:03:59 AM)
My switch partner who is mostly sub (I am also a switch and do occasionally switch with him) recently informed me that he met with a female sub in our area. He also told me that he refused to scene with her (yes, she wanted to scene with him) because he knew I wouldn't approve. He said she was more experienced in the lifestyle than him and he wanted to learn from her, but didn't want me to be jealous. At this point in the discussion, I wasn't jealous at all and told him so. In fact, I have been wanting to meet some of the locals myself so I suggested that we all meet. He said that maybe we could, but not yet. Then he asked me what would happen if in a moment of weakness he scened with her. I told him I wouldn't allow that. He said he was fascinated with some of her bondage gear and said I was being unreasonable because I wouldn't allow him to try out her bondage toys. How is he going to try out her bondage toys without scening with her unless I'm there? I suggested that he meet some other males in the lifestyle to learn from, to which he responded "I knew you couldn't handle me talking to females." I had no problem with any of it until he asked that "in a moment of weakness" question. I'm not some psycho female who refuses to allow her partner to have platonic female friends. I feel like he told me not to be jealous and deliberately said things to cause a jealous reaction just so he could make me out to be some jealous overbearing bitch. Am I being unreasonable here? Has anyone else been in a situation like this, and if so, how did they handle it?

MstrssPassion -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:07:53 AM)
I'm confused with this whole story let me break it down a bit 1) He met a sub in the area with cool bondage gear & they talked about playing. Who was to be the top in this session? 2) He felt he could learn from this person by playing with her. Again this confuses me. One would have to be restrained & the other doing the restraining. If he is learning then it would be hard for her to instruct him if she is being tied up... even the other way around is hard. Best way to learn bondage techniques would be to at least have a third there so that she could show the others the various techniques. In this case it would be a best case scenario to include you. But on a completely different note... excuse me but I am going to make a comment based on what you described. What seems to be going on here between you & your partner is clearly a power struggle. I've seen this happen in many switch type relationships when the power is tossed back & forth between the two partners. You two need to set up some basic rules ahead of time (before you find yourselves at odds with certain scenarios). Like in this case, it seems that you would prefer to be present when he is engaged in a session with someone else. It would have been best to have addressed this issue when you both decided to meet others. Time to establish some ground rules that you can both live with.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:23:42 AM)
That's what I meant when I wondered how he could try out her toys without me being there. Then there's the fact that she's interested in scening with him and his question to me about what if in a moment of weakness. If he wants to learn from someone without going against my orders, shouldn't that consist of verbal discussions only? It's like he asked me not to be jealous, deliberately caused jealousy, and then made me out to be some psycho jealous bitch.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:27:07 AM)
look above... I added some more

MistressNoName -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:29:05 AM)
Let me begin by saying, I mean you no disrespect whatsoever. But I don't think this is a matter of whether you or he is being unreasonable. I think this is a matter of the two of you not communicating directly, honestly and effectively. Are you the jealous type? If so, welcome to the human race. Admit it and deal with it. If there are other reasons why you do not wish him to scene with females (ie-safety, etc), discuss it with him. If he has scened with her already, give him a chance to come clean about it. And then the two of you will need to discuss that and deal with that. Talk to him about it. And then listen to him. I mean, set aside a time and place to sit and talk, for as long as you need to, and communicate. And make regular communication a part of your D/s relationship management routine. And I would say the same to him, had he been the OP (only using female pronouns). Best, MNN

bandit25 -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:34:21 AM)
I don't know about jealous psycho bitch (course I could be wrong!), but yeah, he may have wanted to see some jealousy or it could be a power struggle like Mstrss. Passion said.

thetammyjo -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:42:08 AM)
It almost reads like he's all ready done something to me and was feeling you out before admitting it or continuing it. Clearly this is not the time to talk to him until you both have time to figure out what you want to do in terms of playing with others. Even if you intend to be sexual monogamous but not scene monogamous I recommend reading the following book outloud and together: "The Ethical Slut" by Easton and Hardy

whisperedsighs -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:53:14 AM)
The "in the moment of weekness" to me sounds like he doesn't want to take responsibility for decisions he makes. He needs to be up front about it. "I want to play with this sub."

whisperedsighs -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:56:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo It almost reads like he's all ready done something to me and was feeling you out before admitting it or continuing it. Clearly this is not the time to talk to him until you both have time to figure out what you want to do in terms of playing with others. Even if you intend to be sexual monogamous but not scene monogamous I recommend reading the following book outloud and together: "The Ethical Slut" by Easton and Hardy I have that book on the way....!!!

MstrssPassion -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 10:59:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl he met with a female sub in our area. He also told me that he refused to scene with her (yes, she wanted to scene with him) because he knew I wouldn't approve. ok, there was apparently already some discussing or previous experience that resulted in him knowing that you wouldn't approve of him playing with someone else. My question is why did he know you wouldn't approve? quote: He said she was more experienced in the lifestyle than him and he wanted to learn from her, but didn't want me to be jealous. If he said he didn't want you to be jealous then obviously something has taken place to give him the impression that you would be. quote: I suggested that we all meet. He said that maybe we could, but not yet. Not yet?? Those two little words say a lot. Why not yet? quote: Then he asked me what would happen if in a moment of weakness he scened with her. 1) You still didn't clarify who would be topping in this session. 2) If he already knows you wouldn't approve of him doing a scene with her (as he already stated) why would there even be a chance to be in a position of a "moment of weakness" ??? quote: I told him I wouldn't allow that. Why... did you just decide this or was this an already agreed upon limit? It seems that this topic has been touched upon but the specifics are REAL fuzzy. quote: How is he going to try out her bondage toys without scening with her unless I'm there? I'm sorry... I don't understand what you are trying to say/ask here. Could you clarify please. quote: I suggested that he meet some other males in the lifestyle to learn from, to which he responded "I knew you couldn't handle me talking to females." ummmm... this suggestion does seem to express that you don't trust him with women. I think the best suggestion for both of you here is that if you are indeed a primary couple that you only meet others as an established primary couple. But before you do this you really need to define your relationship & set up some rules. It is not fair to the others that you would meet to get involved in a tacky situation. quote: I had no problem with any of it until he asked that "in a moment of weakness" question. That moment of weakness does seem to suggest that he may be placing himself in scenarios where wrong choices can be made. This is where the structure that your relationship is evidently lacking would strengthen & reinforce both of you & help you to avoid any situations where you might feel weak. quote: I'm not some psycho female who refuses to allow her partner to have platonic female friends. I feel like he told me not to be jealous and deliberately said things to cause a jealous reaction just so he could make me out to be some jealous overbearing bitch. Am I being unreasonable here? Has anyone else been in a situation like this, and if so, how did they handle it? None here can tell you what is going on in your relationship but it is obvious that you two need to set up some time for a serious heart to heart talk as to what you want & where are you going with this.

MistressYlwa -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 11:01:24 AM)
I have a question or two, before I can respond to your question. 1. Who is the dominant in your relationship? 2. Has your partner, at this time, admitted or denied that a scene took place with the outside sub?

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 11:10:51 AM)
What are the original constructs of the relatioship? Is what he's asking against the original agreement? You're allowed to expect him to maintain his agreement with you. He's allowed to change his mind. If he does, you then have the choice of how to react to his choice. What are you willing to give up or take on in order to maintain the relationship? Where are your boundaries? At what point would you be selling a piece of yourself in order to keep him in your life? Only you can answer these questions. Master Fire

TxBlkMistress -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 11:27:46 AM)
"My switch partner who is mostly sub (I am also a switch and do occasionally switch with him) recently informed me that he met with a female sub in our area. " I believe in taking things in levels....so putting the rest of the post aside...first things first. From this sentence I take it that in your relationship that he is the submissive and you are the Dominant, but once in a blue moon you switch roles with him. The rest of the sentence is what brings few questions to mind....first...do the two of you live together? It may seem like it wouldn't make a difference, but it does show a level of commitment already established. Second, and this brings back all the comments about about discussing things, did the two of you discuss contacting others or did he just do it on his own? Third, how long have you two known each other? I asking because, have you known each other a long time and your level of trust is so solidly established that he felt he could run out and do this, then tell you, and there would no problems? or was he telling all of this to you because he was afraid he was about get caught? There are a lot of factors, and we are hearing one side...so I'm hesitent to say anything..... because from what you wrote, about him not wanting you there "yet" seems like he wants to keep all this to himself..and as some others stated....how can he be instructed with just the two?... they are both subs....what's being taught?, how to be more sub, how to use the equipment? or what? and qualifying actions by saying "in a moment of weakness" seems like the deed has been done and he's trying to cover himself That's just my opinion, so please don't take it wrong...but there is just a lot of info missing. I hope that you two can sit down, write down and discuss your guidelines and make this work. That is why for the first six months, at the very least, I use a contract, and before any play starts we sit down at a table and go over it line by line. I've had too many claim they did things because they"misunderstood".

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 11:45:33 AM)
I fully admit that I would be jealous of him having sessions with someone else. However, I would not be jealous of any platonic friendships with others (both male and female) in the lifestyle. In regards to sex, there is none. I am against sex outside of a monogamous relationship and he is against it outside of marriage (he's not married). My feelings for him and the fact that most others in the lifestyle expect sex is the main reason we have been bondage partners for the last year. In all honesty, I've never considered non-sexual polygamy, in fact I've never heard of it. If it does exist, I don't see how it would work since she's a female sub, he is 90% sub, and neither of us is bi. My biggest fear is that he will totally fall for this woman and I will end up losing him. Although he's not in love with me, he really cares about me alot and doesn't want to hurt me in any way. He has assured me that he doesn't care for her more than he cares for me, but he's just so fascinated with her. Both of us want to learn more about the lifestyle, but I wish there was a way to do that without the risk of completely losing him. This is a situation I am going to have to deal with, but I'm just not sure how.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 11:59:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa I have a question or two, before I can respond to your question. 1. Who is the dominant in your relationship? 2. Has your partner, at this time, admitted or denied that a scene took place with the outside sub? 1. We started out with him dominating more because I was a newby. Then he became a sub, but will occasionally dominate me if I ask him to. At this point I would say he's 90% sub, but I consider myself half sub half switch (although obviously mostly domme with him). because I equally crave both. 2. At this time, he is denying that a scene took place and is only admitting to meeting her. He said she wanted to play and he told her he couldn't.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 12:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBlkMistress "My switch partner who is mostly sub (I am also a switch and do occasionally switch with him) recently informed me that he met with a female sub in our area. " I believe in taking things in levels....so putting the rest of the post aside...first things first. From this sentence I take it that in your relationship that he is the submissive and you are the Dominant, but once in a blue moon you switch roles with him. The rest of the sentence is what brings few questions to mind....first...do the two of you live together? It may seem like it wouldn't make a difference, but it does show a level of commitment already established. Second, and this brings back all the comments about about discussing things, did the two of you discuss contacting others or did he just do it on his own? Third, how long have you two known each other? I asking because, have you known each other a long time and your level of trust is so solidly established that he felt he could run out and do this, then tell you, and there would no problems? or was he telling all of this to you because he was afraid he was about get caught? There are a lot of factors, and we are hearing one side...so I'm hesitent to say anything..... because from what you wrote, about him not wanting you there "yet" seems like he wants to keep all this to himself..and as some others stated....how can he be instructed with just the two?... they are both subs....what's being taught?, how to be more sub, how to use the equipment? or what? and qualifying actions by saying "in a moment of weakness" seems like the deed has been done and he's trying to cover himself That's just my opinion, so please don't take it wrong...but there is just a lot of info missing. I hope that you two can sit down, write down and discuss your guidelines and make this work. That is why for the first six months, at the very least, I use a contract, and before any play starts we sit down at a table and go over it line by line. I've had too many claim they did things because they"misunderstood". In answer to your first question, we have never lived together. Second, we have discussed meeting others in the lifestyle because he wants me to attend munches in the area and learn new ways to dominate him. Third, we have known each other for just over a year.

AAkasha -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 12:31:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I fully admit that I would be jealous of him having sessions with someone else. However, I would not be jealous of any platonic friendships with others (both male and female) in the lifestyle. In regards to sex, there is none. I am against sex outside of a monogamous relationship and he is against it outside of marriage (he's not married). My feelings for him and the fact that most others in the lifestyle expect sex is the main reason we have been bondage partners for the last year. In all honesty, I've never considered non-sexual polygamy, in fact I've never heard of it. If it does exist, I don't see how it would work since she's a female sub, he is 90% sub, and neither of us is bi. My biggest fear is that he will totally fall for this woman and I will end up losing him. Although he's not in love with me, he really cares about me alot and doesn't want to hurt me in any way. He has assured me that he doesn't care for her more than he cares for me, but he's just so fascinated with her. Both of us want to learn more about the lifestyle, but I wish there was a way to do that without the risk of completely losing him. This is a situation I am going to have to deal with, but I'm just not sure how. It sounds like you are "settling" for a man you care more about than he cares about you. You are being possessive in a sense that you don't want him to "fall" for another woman, even though you know he doesn't love you. You can't prevent a guy from falling for other women by just ensuring that he does not have access to them in an intimate way. If he doesn't love you, he can fall in love with someone else no matter how many roadblocks you put up. Is he with you because you dominate him and are a safe and easy way to get that fix? You are constantly striving to find better ways to dominate him, jumping through hoops. He is open to meeting new people -- especially if it will help you learn new ways to dominate him. To me this sounds like he's happy with the gratification he gets, in return he treats you well, but doesn't want a loving relationship because he doesn't care for you enough. You don't want to find yourself in the bdsm version of a vanilla relationship where the guy sticks around for the great sex even though he doesn't love the woman, and she knows he doesn't LOVE her but hangs on because he "would" be a great mate if he did love her; meanwhile, she's trying to prevent him from falling for other women by demanding that he remain exclusive (sexually) and he gives in -- because she's the sex he wants. At least until he finds the sex + love girlfriend he's holding out for. This is a common theme in so many movies, I just can't think of one. Also, if you remember Seinfeld, in this situation your man clearly has "hand." Akasha

thetammyjo -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 12:48:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I fully admit that I would be jealous of him having sessions with someone else. However, I would not be jealous of any platonic friendships with others (both male and female) in the lifestyle. In regards to sex, there is none. I am against sex outside of a monogamous relationship and he is against it outside of marriage (he's not married). My feelings for him and the fact that most others in the lifestyle expect sex is the main reason we have been bondage partners for the last year. In all honesty, I've never considered non-sexual polygamy, in fact I've never heard of it. If it does exist, I don't see how it would work since she's a female sub, he is 90% sub, and neither of us is bi. My biggest fear is that he will totally fall for this woman and I will end up losing him. Although he's not in love with me, he really cares about me alot and doesn't want to hurt me in any way. He has assured me that he doesn't care for her more than he cares for me, but he's just so fascinated with her. Both of us want to learn more about the lifestyle, but I wish there was a way to do that without the risk of completely losing him. This is a situation I am going to have to deal with, but I'm just not sure how. The first thing to learn is that a scene does not need to involve direct sexual contact or orgasm. You can flog someone and the flogger keeps all their clothes on and never touches the other person's genitals -- heck, you don't even need to be completely naked for a lot of SM. Bondage? You can do bondage over clothes if that is a big concern. Do people have to have sex to go dancing together? Or go swimming together? Or bowling or almost anything else? Why would they need to have sex to do BDSM? Learning how to do BDSM safely, in my strong opinion, means learning hands-on, not just from books and not just from watching. At the very least you might want some top to watch and guide you while you practice on your partner. The only way to even attempt to come to a mutual understanding is to talk about it openly -- that book I mentioned can help you come up with questions to ask and ideas to bounce around in your head. But you should not assume his understanding of what is OK is what your understanding is. If he is agreeing to something because he feels he must, he will throw back the claims he did in an attempt (childish in my opinion) to get you to change your position. I don't see how that good for either of you in the long run. You need to make a set of guideline together that you are each comfortable with and which you can support with no negative feelings. I can't promise you that this is possible but you must work on it to even make it possible. Good luck!

StacyCat -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 1:21:31 PM)
Not getting into the relationship aspects, I have tried out plenty of toys without having a "scene." I love toybags, I love discovering new toys. Usually, its "Hey, can I try that?" Getting a few slaps or however the toy acts, and thats it. If there is interest in the toy, it can go further, but its very possible to see how toys work without actually having a scene.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (1/6/2007 2:11:41 PM)
He definitely isn't looking for a sex + love girlfriend because in order for him to have sex, she would have to be his sex + love wife. Other than family, he is the most positive influence I have in my life right now. We are both taking college courses, encouraging each other about school, and having friendly competitions on our grades. Plus our morals reguarding sex, while not exactly the same, are extremely close. I freely admit that I am very attached to him and I know telling the most positive influence in my life to take a hike would be a huge mistake. I also know that putting too much direct pressure on him will drive him away. So I'm just going to have to deal with this somehow, just wish I knew how.

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