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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:02:48 PM

bandit25

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I tend to agree with Noah somewhat. I have submissive tendencies, but I also have a choice. I choose to "let them loose" so to speak. In fact, submissiveness is not my personality. My boss kind of knows about me; however, he thinks I'm a domme!

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:12:15 PM

Brine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I was born submissive, its my personality, who I am...therefore, I have no choice.

Hmm. . .
In my gut I want to agree with submissives like this, but it isn't neccisarially true. I have come across any number submissives, and vanillas who were so eager to obey that I wanted to believe this when I was younger. . . No offense to those proud submissives who think this but there are a lot of formative cahnges in a person's life that make them "choose" or "decide" that it is better to give up power or that true freedom comes in being powerless.
My desire to agree with this does not come from some desire to see women or any one woman in particular think that they are destine to be a prized possesion of a man but my own selfish desire to think that I was manifestly destine for the power I express both in my home and in generally in my life. As a general statment to any dominant I will say: this is not the case: our choices and experiences led us to take up power.
Marcus Aralies may disagree, though if you look deep in meditations it seems more that the desire of power is the vice/virtue of an educated or complete man. Anywho that's my two cents from the philisophical dom's corner.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:12:46 PM

Marc2b

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Sometimes to answer a question you need to rephrase the question. As I see it there are two questions here. One, do women have a biological need to submit to men? Two, if so, should they be compelled to?

My answer to the first question is: maybe. My answer to the second question is: Hell, no!

To elaborate. Given what we know about human cultures, human history and human evolution I think a case can be made that the female half of our species evolved to be submissive toward men. However, until science discovers a submissive gene in women, the argument cannot be considered definitive. Nor can we discount the nurture side of the debate about human behavior. In fact, the whole Nature vs. Nurture debate has always seemed silly to me. It seems obvious to me that both influence us and the ratio of influence will vary from person to person. We must also consider that fact that a species’ behaviors will change over time as environmental influences change. What may have been natural behavior 100,000 years ago may not be today. Which means that the answer to question number one is: we don’t know because we are in no position to make a one-size-fits-all judgment of an entire group.

Making a one-size-fits-all judgment is the definition of prejudice and forcing someone to be something they are not is the definition of tyranny. Hence the answer to number two. I believe the purpose of life is to enjoy life and to do that each of us must be free to make our own choices and chart our own destiny. It’s okay to fantasize about a world where all women (or all men) are slaves and happily so, but decent people keep a firm line between their fantasies and reality and intelligent people see that a dominant/submissive relationship is a symbiotic one as mymasterssub69 implied when she said:

quote:

it wasn't suppose to be taken literally however yes in His own way, Daddy does serve me.

I believe, in fact, that men and women were created to serve each other, not just in the obvious way of perpetuating the species, but to enhance each others lives (viva la difference!) and make them more joyous. Even in a dominant/submissive relationship each serves the other simply by being who they are and in doing so making the other happy. Once, when I suggested that in a master/slave relationship that the master is as much a servant to the slave as the slave is to the master on the Gorean forums, I got my first taste of just how touchy some people can be when it comes to the "gospel of female submission." Apparently, believing that the master owes some things to the slave (i.e. protection, support) makes me stupid and un-masculine.

Personally, I’d like to take all the female supremacists and all the male supremacists and put them together on an island and let them fight it out amongst themselves. We could install hidden cameras and have the hit new reality television show of the year.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:19:03 PM

onestandingstill

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From the moment I woke up to the sleeping sub inside 2/24/05 there's no way I could ever put her back to rest again.
I seriously considered trying to leave the BDSM world at the crash and burn end to my first D/s relationship.
What I discovered is just like I need to breathe and need to eat I need to behave as who I am.
To deny who I am and live a lie would not be possible for me.
I am submissive and could be slave for the right Master.
It's who I was in all my relationships not just with my mates or partners but all people.
I just didn't have words or concepts to explain my need to serve and be useful before.
suzanne

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:19:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 5:28:51 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

My standard answer- orientations are innate while expressions of orientations are learned and shaped

God that’s good. I really admire a well tuned phrase, especially one that packs a lot profundity into only a few words. I think I’ll toke up and contemplate that for a while.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 6:11:39 PM

missturbation

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Thankyou all for your responses so far.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 1/7/2007 6:12:38 PM >

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/8/2007 3:57:21 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

My standard answer- orientations are innate while expressions of orientations are learned and shaped

God that’s good. I really admire a well tuned phrase, especially one that packs a lot profundity into only a few words. I think I’ll toke up and contemplate that for a while.

I like LA's answer alot also. I have always been an indepent person. I always rebelled when anyone tried to force me into situations.

Do I think that there might have been a time when I could have submitted, actually yes. Unfortunately there was no one strong enough, with the personal characteristics I needed them to have, that I would submit to.

Oh sure, I did a bang up job of trying to play the part. But even my wacko mother will tell you I was an automon. I had completely shut down on many levels. I had no sense of self, no joy, misery, fear.......just nothing. I could smile and laugh, joke around, go about my days like nothing was wrong but anyone that knew me, that cared to see, could look into my eyes and see......nothing.

The funniest part about the whole thing was the painful birth process. I won't go into detail but it created a change in me that brought me to life. Now, the woman I am would never be able to submit to anyone for any length of time. I may be wrong but I just don't think it's in me now. All of the carefully learned/freed/nurtured qualities that make me dominant have become innately part of me. I am happy with the changes and yet still continue to feel the need to grow. I cannot imagine a human being existing that I could give control of that up to.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/8/2007 4:16:28 PM

marieToo

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I have no doubt that I was born twisted.

But I choose when, how, where, and with whom to express my submissive tendencies; I'm in control of it. Mostly I've chosen not to share it. But I have had it stolen from me a few times.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/8/2007 6:58:39 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
So personally whilst i agree that i was born to serve and i accept it and am happier for it obviously not all women feel the same. I still feel i made a choice though.
I'm wondering if anyone (and im sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?

You can choose to hold your breath until you pass out, at which point your body goes into autonomous mode and resumes respiration for you. You can choose not to eat until you starve to death. You can choose to open your veins and watch your life drip away. You can choose to deny what your "heart" desires most, out of necessity or fear. At the end of the day, you have a choice. i could choose to be "normal", or even dominant, but it would involve constantly reminding myself of my role, pretending, memorizing examples to copy. It's not me.

quote:

I find it hard to believe in this day and age that someone would have this opinion.

Really? There are still multi-billion-dollar religious based on that idea! Where you been?

...dave

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/8/2007 8:52:13 PM

slavegirljoy

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Have a choice in being a slave? That is an idea that seems completely foreign to me. That is just a fantasy to me. That seems like a luxury that some people seem to have but, not me.  i've never felt that i have any real choice in what i am. i never made a conscious choice to be a slave. i've just never been able to be anything but a slave and i've tried.

If i could make a choice, i don't know if i would choose to be a slave or not. It's not that i am unhappy as a slave but, it's not an easy life being always under the control of another and not having my own life to live the way i want, doing what i want, when i want. But, i have never been able to feel content without being a slave. i have never felt right unless i was under the direct and absolute power of a sadistic Master. i tried for many years to live the life of an independent woman and it was nothing short of miserable. i tried being in relationships with men who wanted to treat me as their equal. i was never so unhappy. i was even in relationships with guys who wanted me to be in the lead. That did not work for me, at all.  No matter how much i tried, i have never been able to be anything other than a slave, and feel right with myself.

Being a slave is no more a choice for me than being a masochist is.  i don't enjoy being hurt and being in pain but, i need it and i can't live without it and it gives me a sense of contentment that nothing else can. i also don't choose to be an habitual masturbator but, i can't stop it, even though i have cried myself to sleep most nights of my adult life because of it and i have tried to stop. Whether by nature or nuture or a combination, i am a masurbating masochist slave and that is what i will always be. At least, until i can find a way to make a choice about it. Then, maybe i will choose to stop or maybe i won't. But, it would be nice to be able to make that choice.

i do choose to serve a man and i do choose to serve a sadistic man and i do choose which sadistic man to serve. But, to serve, that isn't a choice for me. It is just what i have to do.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I'm wondering if anyone (and im sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?

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