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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Substitute the word Muslim, and it sounds quite a bit like what I've heard even on these message boards.

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The wrong people with too much power can lead a population to believe things aren't what they seem. Hitler and the inner Nazi Party were extremely proficient in this regard. You don't need the population to agree with you, you just need to construct a mechanism to create a docile population fearing for their lives. The mechanism being propaganda, terror and a spy network.

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Ernst Janning: There was a fever over the land. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. Above all, there was fear. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves.

Only when you understand that - can you understand what Hitler meant to us. Because he said to us: 'Lift your heads! Be proud to be German! There are devils among us. Communists, Liberals, Jews, Gypsies! Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed.'

It was the old, old story of the sacrifical lamb. What about those of us who knew better? We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part?

Because we loved our country!

What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights?

What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights?

It is only a passing phase. It is only a stage we are going through. It will be discarded sooner or later. Hitler himself will be discarded... sooner or later. The country is in danger. We will march out of the shadows. We will go forward. Forward is the great password.

And history tells how well we succeeded, your honor. We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.

The very elements of hate and power about Hitler that mesmerized Germany, mesmerized the world! We found ourselves with sudden powerful allies. Things that had been denied to us as a democracy were open to us now. The world said 'go ahead, take it, take it! Take Sudetenland, take the Rhineland - remilitarize it - take all of Austria, take it!

And then one day we looked around and found that we were in an even more terrible danger. The ritual began in this courtoom swept over the land like a raging, roaring disease. What was going to be a passing phase had become the way of life. Your honor, I was content to sit silent during this trial. I was content to tend my roses. I was even content to let counsel try to save my name, until I realized that in order to save it, he would have to raise the specter again.

You have seen him do it - he has done it here in this courtroom.

He has suggested that the Third Reich worked for the benefit of people. He has suggested that we sterilized men for the welfare of the country. He has suggested that perhaps the old Jew did sleep with the sixteen year old girl, after all. Once more it is being done for love of country. It is not easy to tell the truth; but if there is to be any salvation for Germany, we who know our guilt must admit it... whatever the pain and humiliation.

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ORIGINAL: sleazy

Hitler was democratically elected head of state,

Debatable. Hitler was appointed (not elected) Chancellor by Hindenburg. With this power the Nazis then proceeded to batter and torture opponents and also banned the KPD from elections (Hitler had the power as chancellor). The Nazi Party then gained the largest number of votes but to say he was democratically elected in a climate of banning other parties, intimidation and fear is wide of the mark. Also, at no point did the Nazis get a majority vote so there should of being proportional representation under the German system. The Socialist Workers parties totalled more votes than the Nazis which is why Hitler was appointed Chancellor in the first place i.e. the ruling classes did not want a left-wing government redistributing wealth and the Nazis were a last resort after several failed attempts at a right-wing coalition.

A couple of years ago France started electing some very hard right wing politicians on a national level

Examples please. I'm not aware of any of this. Jean Marie Le Pen got something like 18% of the vote in the second round of the national elections but was then blitzed in the third round.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Ernst Janning: There was a fever over the land. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. Above all, there was fear. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves.

Only when you understand that - can you understand what Hitler meant to us. Because he said to us: 'Lift your heads! Be proud to be German! There are devils among us. Communists, Liberals, Jews, Gypsies! Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed.'

It was the old, old story of the sacrifical lamb. What about those of us who knew better? We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part?

Because we loved our country!

What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights?

What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights?

It is only a passing phase. It is only a stage we are going through. It will be discarded sooner or later. Hitler himself will be discarded... sooner or later. The country is in danger. We will march out of the shadows. We will go forward. Forward is the great password.

And history tells how well we succeeded, your honor. We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.

The very elements of hate and power about Hitler that mesmerized Germany, mesmerized the world! We found ourselves with sudden powerful allies. Things that had been denied to us as a democracy were open to us now. The world said 'go ahead, take it, take it! Take Sudetenland, take the Rhineland - remilitarize it - take all of Austria, take it!

And then one day we looked around and found that we were in an even more terrible danger. The ritual began in this courtoom swept over the land like a raging, roaring disease. What was going to be a passing phase had become the way of life. Your honor, I was content to sit silent during this trial. I was content to tend my roses. I was even content to let counsel try to save my name, until I realized that in order to save it, he would have to raise the specter again.

You have seen him do it - he has done it here in this courtroom.

He has suggested that the Third Reich worked for the benefit of people. He has suggested that we sterilized men for the welfare of the country. He has suggested that perhaps the old Jew did sleep with the sixteen year old girl, after all. Once more it is being done for love of country. It is not easy to tell the truth; but if there is to be any salvation for Germany, we who know our guilt must admit it... whatever the pain and humiliation.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
On the otherhand, the Germans didn't need to manipulate the situation because Japan and the US were on collision course with territorial ambitions in the same sphere of interest/conflict.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Open to debate Real0ne. A case could be put forward both ways. In my opinion, based on what I've studied to date, Hitler had no intentions of invading Britain i.e. his bombing campaigns and build up of forces on the French coast were designed to persuade Britain to sue for peace. Without taking The Navy out there was no way they could have invaded and a point always missed is this: if Hitler conquered Britain what was he going to do with her? His forces were already over-stretched and his real ambitions were in the East. He wanted living space for ethnic Germans to fullfil his idea of a Greater Germany and this is why Hitler's best divisions and most of his divisions fought on the Eastern front.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Hey Real0ne, this is the first time I've come across a theory claiming the US plotted WW2. Fair play to you for originality but there's a huge flaw in the plan. The European powers had been battling it out well before Uncle Sam came on the scene. It was the culmination of centuries of imperialism.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Fair enough. I take your point. I was meaning your average man on the street (not the US government). Why should some bloke from Ohio line up to kill himself because the duke of northumberland has ran out of cigars and brandy and could do with a few more quid to replenish the stock?

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ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Also aircraft carriers with a 200 mile search radius were much better tools than battleships with a 20 mile one. 

The thought was the battleships were safe in Pearl since it was believed to be too shallow for air-dropped torpedos to work.  The Japanese made modifications on their torpedeos (which were already more reliable than American models) that allowed them to operate in shallow waters.

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I found this link which has some of the information I remember reading.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3522a943db.htm

Oddly enough, most of the information is still classified Top Secret in the interests of national security more than 60 years after it actually happened.
Sinergy

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I found this link which has some of the information I remember reading.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3522a943db.htm

Oddly enough, most of the information is still classified Top Secret in the interests of national security more than 60 years after it actually happened.
Sinergy

and the really sad part is that if we had not entered when we did there is a good chance we would all have swastica's on our flagpoles right now.  Nukes would hit NYC instead of nagasaki. etc

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I know near the end of the war there was an attempt to over throw him, but why didn't it occur after Poland and Czechoslovakia were made German, the French were conquered, and all pre WWI German power and influence established? Drunk on power?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
The wrong people with too much power can lead a population to believe things aren't what they seem. Hitler and the inner Nazi Party were extremely proficient in this regard. You don't need the population to agree with you, you just need to construct a mechanism to create a docile population fearing for their lives. The mechanism being propaganda, terror and a spy network.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Hitler wasn't a psychopath. He was simply of limited intelligence and desperate for a cause and a scapegoat (upbringing an issue). The Nazis did have some very able proponents of propaganda and were adept at reading the whims of the population and telling them what they wanted to hear (economic development).

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle
After all, didn't Bush via fear of Muslim Extremests get The American People to surrender the right to a Writ of Habeas Corpus, as well as the right to privacy, with respect to the total domestic surveillance?

Why yes, they did.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Well its not a "big" conspiracy as such its more like turning a blind eye.  roseveldt wanted to get us into the war but it was unpopular in congress and the public.  So many felt that he knew the invasion fleet was coming and let it happen which of course launched us into the war.  Some even say that is why the carriers wee sent out.  Its all on sort of thin ice frankly.

It's more than plausible that the US Government were desperate to join the war. Ultimately, WW2 worked out very well for the US government. Having said this, I can't see a credible argument that they actually orchestrated the thing. Then again, I'm open to ideas so any more light you can shed on it will be interesting.

Well even today the average man can only see 1 inch in front of his face so no the average man has to be made angry to have the will to fight.

Agreed. Misplaced patriotism, ignorance and propaganda = anger, obedience and support for invasions.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well my understanding is that japan had 2 choices.  either deal with us or expand. since they have no resources but through imports they could have gotten more by attacking china which if i remember right was their intent.

My guess was that they attacked us to prevent us or at least disable us from intervening with an attack on formosa, the several islands they took etc, long enough to get bases set up and get a foot hold.  Like germany japan needed resources and was determined to get them even at the cost of their country imo.