Love and Submission Separate? (Full Version)

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Leonidas -> Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 2:30:01 PM)

Here's an open question for the slaves (especially female slaves, but the boys can certainly join in too). Would any of you who have been collared to a man for any length of time (say six months), and would consider yourself his slave and deeply submitted to him, say that you don't love him? Do you find that submission and love are correlated for you (in other words, the intensity with which you feel one leads you to feel the other) or are they completely separate? This is something that we've been kicking around in other sections. I'd like to hear from slaves directly.



fencerpet19 -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 2:44:16 PM)

Oh interesting post!
Though I'm not collared, I am in a relationship in which neither of us have strong feelings for one another. I submit and He Dominates, but there is no love. I can even see myself being collared to someone and not loving them... not for a long long time, but 6 months is reasonable. (currently I'm also not a slave, but I hope to become one in the future)

Now don't get me wrong, we are awfully close friends, and I think one reason we left dating out of it was because we don't want to ruin the friendship. However, should the relationship progress I can see how love could possibly fall into it. So I'm not too sure if the two are connected - submission could inevitably lead to love.
Very intriguing,
~FP



smilezz -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 2:48:29 PM)

quote:

Would any of you have been collared to a man for any length of time (say six months), and would consider yourslf his slave, say that you don't love him?

For me personally, no...not collared.
quote:

Do you find that submission and love are correlated for you (in other words, the extent that you feel one leads you to feel the other) or are they completely separate?

I believe they can be completely separate...i have seen it in people i know personally. As for me, they go hand in hand. I can bottom to another person in play, but submit to them fully? naaaaa, not wired that way.

Happy Friday!

~smilezz~



songbird26 -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 3:01:15 PM)

Well, are we talking eros, agape, or philios, here? I'm not just being a brat...I honestly think that in order for there to be true submission there must be some emotional connection that might be defined as 'love', whether it be the friendship (family) love of philios, the honoring-like-a-god of agape, or the passion and lust of eros. Just as I believe that to truly understand, guide, and dominate a slave/submissive, a dominant must likewise hold an emotional interest and investment in the sub; otherwise he or she is just going through the motions. As for "in love?" I don't think it's necessary or mandatory at all.

This is only my opinion, based on the fact that I don't truly submit (playacting is different) even in scenes, without some kind of emotional tie that I trust runs both ways. And that so far, in my admittedly moderate experience, those emotional ties have not turned into romantic 'love'. That's just me, of course, and I hope to find a situation where it does.



proudsub -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 3:34:27 PM)

I was collared to my first dom but didn't love him, only loved and needed the things we did together. However he did fall in love with me.

With Hubby i am not officially collared since He thinks the wedding ring is enough. I do love Him and have for over 36 years, but the love came before the submission.



mistoferin -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 3:38:54 PM)


quote:

Would any of you who have been collared to a man for any length of time (say six months), and would consider yourself his slave and deeply submitted to him, say that you don't love him? Do you find that submission and love are correlated for you (in other words, the intensity with which you feel one leads you to feel the other) or are they completely separate?


#1. No
#2. Yes they are connected, I could not be submissive to a man that I did not also love., at least not to the level you are talking about.



perverseangelic -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 3:52:33 PM)

It's interesting. I used to think that I couldn't submit to someone I didn't love for more than play.

About a month ago, my partner and I began a sorta-poly situation with another couple. He and I have established a stricter power dynamic than my partner desires with me. I find it remarkably easy to submit and serve him while not loving him. Perhaps it helps that the other person accepts that he is under my partner, in that my first duty is to my partner. However, the relationships are totally different. One is structured power exchange, one is a loving partnership with a dominant partner. ~shrug~

I most definatly don't love the other person. I care about him a lot, and I serve him very genuinely, but don't love him.



Leonidas -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 4:01:57 PM)

I've never been clear about you, perverse, do you consider yourself a collared slave to your partner, a submissive...? And, I understand that you serve this man as you say "under" or secondarily to your partner, but if I'm hearing you correctly, you are submitted to your partner, not this other man, yes? Just trying to figure out whether you fit into the parameters I originally asked about or not.



sweetforYou -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 4:14:51 PM)

i am newly collared, only about 3 months with my Master. He is my first, my first in everything and yes, i do love Him, as i believe He loves me. i personally could not submit to one i did not have a deep emotional attachment to. i am fortunate that i did fall in love with my Master



terah -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 4:21:27 PM)

I am not collared.I am in a relationship where I do not love my dominant, but I submit because serving is a great deal of who I am.

Although I have loved a dominant and he never felt the need to collar me because he felt I gave him my submission, he was mistaken I gave him my love. I never begged for a collar eith from him, but I served him in some ways.



Sissyslave71 -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 4:23:02 PM)

I would say this is a very personal thing.

From my experience....I tend to end up loving my dominant.

Sometimes, unfortunately, mistakenly so.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 4:28:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Here's an open question for the slaves (especially female slaves, but the boys can certainly join in too). Would any of you who have been collared to a man for any length of time (say six months), and would consider yourself his slave and deeply submitted to him, say that you don't love him?

Thus far, I have loved every owner.

quote:

Do you find that submission and love are correlated for you (in other words, the intensity with which you feel one leads you to feel the other) or are they completely separate? This is something that we've been kicking around in other sections. I'd like to hear from slaves directly.

They are separate. Our relationship is based in authority, not love. If the love ended, I would still be owned. He could sell me to a stranger and I would accept that new owner and serve appropriately.

We DO love eachother, but that's not why are are together.

Relationships and their success tend to have very little to do with love.



ravenna -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 6:30:51 PM)

i am owned now by two men who love me and whom i love more than the air in my lungs, but i have experienced what you describe. i served my third owner for nearly two years without loving him or being loved by him, and i was always told i served Him well and that he was very satisfied by my service. (He released me, cruelly and unnecessarily in my humble opinion, to marry his pregnant girlfriend.) He was a stranger (to me) when he bought me, and i was purchased purely for full-time service and entertainment, not for any emotional connection; although i became almost obsessively aroused by submitting to Him, i never loved him, nor was my love expected or desired. Although in any number of ways i feel being owned by him made me a much better, stronger, "purer" slave, i confess to having had a pervasive feeling of cool emptiness in my heart when i was his, as if my soul were in a sort of suspended animation even as my body was in very active use. How long i could have continued to serve him well -- i don't know, although i certainly would never willingly have ended my service to him. As EmeraldSlave2 points out, it's a matter of authority; i had been bought and paid for and i was owned by him and i served my owner to the best of my ability. The slave's emotional state need not be of interest to her owner unless it affects the quality of her service, or unless he simply finds it interesting. (If he had wanted my love, i suspect he could have trained me to love him, since i was deeply attracted to him, though my life now is so infinitely richer i thank God that things turned out the way they did...)



edana -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 6:42:56 PM)

Greetings all,

I know that people are different, and will not say that a girl could submit without an emotion we generally refer to as “love” resulting. Though it does, and has for me, but then again I have gone thru most of my life craving that emotion. I am sure there are others who are just like that… pleasers. You do it out of love and the need to be “loved”… you look up at them and say, in your heart… with your eyes… “do you love me now?” *smiles* it’s what I call my “little girl tendencies”

I related a story to my master one night… after pondering the depth of my love for him…

Love is like a box, a pretty jeweled box… with sparkly stones and bright colors. When you have this box, when you have this “love” you often hold onto it… tightly, looking at it, marveling at it… its very pretty. But… it’s a box. Many, many people don’t know to open it. many people put it on a shelf and look at it, some even cover it up after a time. Adults exhibit this trait. We forget that this “box” indeed opens… we become blind to the key hole…

Girls… can you remember when you were young, on the playground… and there was a boy… who was smart, and could draw well. Who was outspoken, and ran really fast. *smiles*… do you remember that feeling… wanting to sit next to him at assembly, or get the swing next to his at recess. Oh… just to catch his eye.

Do you remember your first “crush”? -- That… is *inside* the box. As children we are free of the trappings of “pain” and “pressure” free to – live inside that box

Free to be… “In love”

I have the hugest “crush” on my Master… *smiles* I can’t imagine living any other way.

I honestly hope that every sweet slave girl on this site will experience the same…

I wish all well, and happiness…

In service to Master Leonidas

edana




newflowers -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 8:50:13 PM)

In completely submitting myself to a dominant partner, a significant amount of trust which inspires greater feeling of security which in turn deepens the submission and, yes, one of the consequences of this is love.
This was a hard-learned lesson for me; I cannot play with being submissive. I'll not deny that sex games with spankings are fun - they are, but I know that the emotional cost is too high. When my idea budding relationship meets the reality of hey babe that was fun thanks, I have a problem.

There are times when I wish I could be a submissive who goes to parties and clubs, engages in play, can totally fall into the feelings of the sensation, and go home. But I am not that person. For me, deep and full submissive goes hand in glove with love for my partner - love of a friend, love for him as an authority, love for him as a sexual partner. But the love develops from the trust and the miore I do trust, the deeper I submit, the more I love.

newflowers



newflowers



willing2serve -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/25/2005 9:43:21 PM)

In my personal opinion, I feel submission and love certainly can be separated. I will agree though there has to be a mental, even spiritual connection for my submission to be given; therefore my gift is not given freely just to anyone.

I also believe in the act of obedient submission, adoration, trust, respect and bonds are created. So then one must question are these things stronger than an emotional love or are they parallel?

I await the day that I can be ALL, plus one to my Sir.. His lady, His
submissive, His slave, His completer, His slut, His pleasure, His comforter and yes His love...

So to answer your question, do I believe love and submission can be separated? Yes.
Do I wish to keep submission and love separate? No.

Respectfully,
Willing2serve1



perverseangelic -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/26/2005 12:17:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I've never been clear about you, perverse, do you consider yourself a collared slave to your partner, a submissive...? And, I understand that you serve this man as you say "under" or secondarily to your partner, but if I'm hearing you correctly, you are submitted to your partner, not this other man, yes? Just trying to figure out whether you fit into the parameters I originally asked about or not.


I gave up on terms, because nothing fits.

I belong to my partner. Period. I submit to him, sure. Am I his slave? Well, I like the term, and I use it on the other side of collarme because "submissive" isn't a noun in my book, but I don't know that that's how I'd self-define myself.

I serve the person I call master. Am I his slave? He calls me that, but I'd say I'm less his slave than I am my partners, were we to get technical. Do I submit to him? Yup. Almost to the same degree as I submit to my partner.

I don't know if I fit in your earlier parameters. All I know is that I've recently learned you can submit to someone without loving them.



MasterzKitten -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/26/2005 5:40:37 AM)

In my own experience, i cannot seperate the two for very long, even if i try.
With my current Master, it started w/o love, just lust. He's naturally Dominant and i'm naturally submissive, so those were just roles that we both just took from the start really. As time went on, the love began to grow and it became more than just sex. Because i love Him, i submit to Him completely now and would do anything He asked of me, in and out of the bedroom.

With my old Master, it was love first, then the Master/submissiveness came much later. It worked for awhile, but because of how our relationship was going on outside of the bedroom, i could never fully submit to Him because the love was failing us.

i'm sure there are some that can separate the two, and i think thats no easy task, so i think if they can do that, its a big thing (if thats the way that they want the relationship that is). But i personally cannot and dont care to either.



Leonidas -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/26/2005 5:47:03 AM)

Hi perverse,

Yeah, terms and trying to define them can wrap you around the axel faster than anything. In my terms, I'd say you belong to your owner (partner for you). You have discovered that you can serve another man as a slave and still belong to your owner (partner). That's not an uncommon discovery to make in my experience. Ownership and love go together for you. Service can be separate. When you say "maybe it's because the other man is second to my partner" I recognize that as something common in my experience. You are serving the other man as your owners slave (again, my terms). For many slave women, that's a big lesson to learn. Most fear that if they do serve the other man well, it will somehow mean that they are less devoted to their master. You are a brave young woman. You're coloring way outside the lines here. There's some good stuff outslde the lines.



Sunriselady -> RE: Love and Submission Separate? (2/26/2005 7:22:55 AM)

I think that love and submission can definitely be separate. In fact, I would dare say most submissive type relaitonships start out that way. Love is something that takes time to grow. It is nurtured by trust, respect, caring, etc. So for me, at least, first came a level of trust allowing me to want to submit to Master. As that trust deepened and the respect grew, so did both my level of sumbission, and my love for Master. But that is just me, and "age-enhanced" gal who has been there and back a few times over the years.[:D]



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