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Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 6:39:35 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		How have/would you handle a situation when the top and bottom’s desire for aftercare are in direct conflict with each other?  The difference in desire is not necessarily that one wants it and the other doesn’t but that they each want a different type or style of aftercare.

What if the conflicting desires are discovered after the play, not because of poor communication but because the play itself changed what was wanted?

Usually, my Lord and I are rather in sync with the type of aftercare that we want.  Our last play, we were not.  The play put me in an extremely negative headspace and I came out of it just wanting to be isolated and not touched (difficult to achieve in a noisy, crowded play party).  He wanted to be touched and to hold me.  We dealt with it by giving each other a little of what was wanted until we were back in sync.

Knight's kyra

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 6:43:36 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

How have/would you handle a situation when the top and bottom’s desire for aftercare are in direct conflict with each other? The difference in desire is not necessarily that one wants it and the other doesn’t but that they each want a different type or style of aftercare.

What if the conflicting desires are discovered after the play, not because of poor communication but because the play itself changed what was wanted?

Usually, my Lord and I are rather in sync with the type of aftercare that we want. Our last play, we were not. The play put me in an extremely negative headspace and I came out of it just wanting to be isolated and not touched (difficult to achieve in a noisy, crowded play party). He wanted to be touched and to hold me. We dealt with it by giving each other a little of what was wanted until we were back in sync.

Knight's kyra


I think you both did the most logical, caring, and beneficial thing. If the play is what is changing things you may also want to evaluate what was it about that session that created negative feelings. Then work on deciding if negative feelings are what you want to create so you can figure out if you should repeat what you did.


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(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 6:44:58 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I've not had that problem.  Thus far, we've been in sync.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 6:47:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It sounds like both of you handled the situation very well, which is a credit to both of you.

I have not had that experience of being in that head space. I would like to think we would handle it as well. I think that aftercare helps both people come down after playing, it seems you understand that too because you were able to give him what he needed.

I think that for some people it would be impossible for them to compromise, others might have difficulty adjusting to their partner reacting in a manner that was different (such as enjoying being held mostly after playing, to wanting to be isolated). It is a very good point to ponder, and something that I will want to talk about with my Daddy, because I think perhaps we should consider this could happen, and how we would accomodate each other if it did.

One never knows where subspace will take them or what what kind of headspace they may end up in. It is not a rational headspace after all. Thanks for the food for thought



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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 7:05:16 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think if people are mature and give eachother time and space, there's no real conflict that can't be dealt with just fine.  Even meltdowns end eventually and you can come together and build from there to be even stronger than before.

The main conflicts I have had are when I'm just very angry and vulnerable and want to push him away after enduring the pain- I'm just thinking how could this person put me through so much and now suddenly want to cuddle on me? 

They deal with it by ordering me to be still and let them cuddle with me and eventually the anger melts away.

Sometimes surprises do happen.  I think if everyone reminds themselves that we are just human, gives eachother time to reach a rational place and regain perspective, things can work out fine.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 7:28:28 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I carry a warm fuzzy blanket to provide aftercare, if that doesn't work I have a folding shovel too.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 8:45:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I've been trained to adjust to whatever he wants (or doesn't want) to give.  This was not an easy feat by any means, but it ultimately solved the problem.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/8/2007 11:59:28 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I carry a warm fuzzy blanket to provide aftercare, if that doesn't work I have a folding shovel too.


The only problem with that is when you're somewhere where you can't dig a hole deep enough for the body. I tell ya...sometimes aftercare can be a difficult process.

juliet

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 7:09:48 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:


They deal with it by ordering me to be still and let them cuddle with me and eventually the anger melts away.


Abit the same here too.  Minus the anger.   Sometimes after a scene or w/e i just want to curl into my own little ball, wrap myself in my world and cry.  I dont want him, i dont want to be touched.   He forces me to cuddle with him until i can open back up and cry with him.  He doesnt let me turn away from him, no matter the reason i am turning. 

Other times i need hugs and he isnt in the mood to give them and one just does one what one can do. 


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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 7:20:15 AM   
hammernhoney


Posts: 268
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		The question us"why is there anger in the scene"?S and m is a sharing of the experience,I hate a pain pup or other wise that just soaks it up and doesn't give back...After care for us involves lots of things ..Plenty of liquid and that warm fuzzy blanket someone spoke about..Taking care of any open cuts that may have happen etc...I still at lost about the angry statement,if we go there during play what could happen? tons of things..anger has no place in s and m...bounty

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 7:27:52 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

How have/would you handle a situation when the top and bottom’s desire for aftercare are in direct conflict with each other?  The difference in desire is not necessarily that one wants it and the other doesn’t but that they each want a different type or style of aftercare.

What if the conflicting desires are discovered after the play, not because of poor communication but because the play itself changed what was wanted?

Usually, my Lord and I are rather in sync with the type of aftercare that we want.  Our last play, we were not.  The play put me in an extremely negative headspace and I came out of it just wanting to be isolated and not touched (difficult to achieve in a noisy, crowded play party).  He wanted to be touched and to hold me.  We dealt with it by giving each other a little of what was wanted until we were back in sync.

Knight's kyra


I think that you both handled it an a reasonable fashion as adults.  Your ability to shift directions and compromise in response to each other in recognition of the importance of the bigger relationship outside the play, despite the intensity of what was brought about by the play,  is commendable.

I am one of those who needs and wants close proximity to my partner after most scening.  I make it clear that I feel this way even with casual partners as I have no problem realizing that I would not be playing with this person in the first place if I didn't know them and didn't have some sort of connection to them, even if the connection is a shared interest in the nuances of the combination of bondage and flogging.  I hope / pray that I ... and my partner (s) could have the same sort of ability to respond as the two of you did even in the face of a change-up within the scene.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 7:31:06 AM   
Argentopal


Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: hammernhoney

The question us"why is there anger in the scene"?S and m is a sharing of the experience,I hate a pain pup or other wise that just soaks it up and doesn't give back...After care for us involves lots of things ..Plenty of liquid and that warm fuzzy blanket someone spoke about..Taking care of any open cuts that may have happen etc...I still at lost about the angry statement,if we go there during play what could happen? tons of things..anger has no place in s and m...bounty


I think in this case it was coming from the bottom pov, and as a bottom we cannot always control the emotions that intense play can brung up.  It has not happened frequently for me, but it has happened that something in the play session has triggered unexpected emotions, you know those nasty landmines we never expect to be there.  Sometimes we can play thruogh them and sometimes more play just makes the explosion bigger.  It helps in the long run because we have one less nasty, unknown landmine to stumble across.  But the emotions in the moment can feel devestating and that can result in some ugly emotions surfacing.  I too want to push away and be left alone to wallow in misery and lick my own woulds, but smarter minds than me know that the hugs, the holding, the comfort and calm words will tend the rended flesh of distant memories far better than solitary mourning ever can.

MsOpal

(in reply to hammernhoney)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 7:46:57 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

How have/would you handle a situation when the top and bottom’s desire for aftercare are in direct conflict with each other?  The difference in desire is not necessarily that one wants it and the other doesn’t but that they each want a different type or style of aftercare.

What if the conflicting desires are discovered after the play, not because of poor communication but because the play itself changed what was wanted?

Usually, my Lord and I are rather in sync with the type of aftercare that we want.  Our last play, we were not.  The play put me in an extremely negative headspace and I came out of it just wanting to be isolated and not touched (difficult to achieve in a noisy, crowded play party).  He wanted to be touched and to hold me.  We dealt with it by giving each other a little of what was wanted until we were back in sync.

Knight's kyra


Perhaps he gave you what he thought you needed, not necessarily wanted at that time.  Maybe he did what he thought would be best for you under the circumstances.  To my way of thinking, if this were the case, you're very fortunate to have such a sensitive and caring Lord.

I'd guess that once a couple got to a certain level of familiarity in play, that they may become more spontaneous in all areas of play, including aftercare, specifically because no two scenes are exactly the same, nor do they evoke the same responses.  This would tend to be the same concept for both involved.

For me, spontaneity is a major turn on, so once limits are set and initial negotiation for the introduction to each toy I use is completed while we are still new to each other, most of my scenes are very spontaneous from that time onward, including aftercare depending on my sub's needs.  However, my wants always come after her welfare.

LBO

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 8:12:49 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hammernhoney
The question us"why is there anger in the scene"?S and m is a sharing of the experience,I hate a pain pup or other wise that just soaks it up and doesn't give back...After care for us involves lots of things ..Plenty of liquid and that warm fuzzy blanket someone spoke about..Taking care of any open cuts that may have happen etc...I still at lost about the angry statement,if we go there during play what could happen? tons of things..anger has no place in s and m...bounty

Well that IS why they created locks and chains and cuffs.

For me it's because I don't like pain.  So, when someone makes me go through a lot of pain, I'm not particularly thrilled about it or the person giving it to me.  In fact, it pisses me off mightily.

But that's not a bad thing- most people in the scene can understand the idea of catharsis.  For me I don't limit it to just crying, or releasing guilt (in fact I don't really experience that guilt type of catharsis at all), it's ALL emotions, including fear and anger and raw primality.

If anger has no place in S&M, then I guess I have no place in S&M either.  I'm still going to keep doing what I've been doing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to hammernhoney)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 10:14:42 AM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		no, no LA...please don't go.....you can be as angry as you please...just don't leave! 
 
who will link us to to the answers to lifes big questions?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 10:19:58 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

If anger has no place in S&M, then I guess I have no place in S&M either. I'm still going to keep doing what I've been doing.


Amen.

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 10:26:24 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		yes cuffs ,chains contain the sub as well as that subs desire to excape,its the mind thing that you can't escape.IS the angry because you are doing something to please him that you aren't ok with...???bounty

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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 10:30:48 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		this slave didn't come into the relationship she is a part of with any demands, preferences or expectations of "after" care in any form--ritualized or spontaneous.  this slave trusts Master with ALL of her care.
 
Master has taken this slave to the point of physical, emotional and mental exhaustion...to the point of not being able to speak or move for a while.  Master cares for His slave before and during, not just after, any scene, private or public in the manner of His choosing.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 1:01:03 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		It sounds like you handled it very well. Myself, I would have asked for the car keys and sat there with the heater going until I felt better. Being as that's a quiet and warm place. Knowing him, we would have sat there together holding hands until I could go back in or he decided we should just leave.

In a case like this, you do have to play it by ear to get everyone's needs met.
He has been known to drag me into his arms and not release me until I can talk to him. Emotionally draining times but very satisfying to know I am accepted to that deep a level.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Conflicting Desires for Aftercare - 1/9/2007 6:44:36 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:


yes cuffs ,chains contain the sub as well as that subs desire to escape,its the mind thing that you can't escape.IS the angry because you are doing something to please him that you aren't ok with...???bounty


I personally have never been upset at the Dom for the sensation he afforded me even when very intense sensation was happening.
A good Dom friend one time told me he'd scene with me till I hated him.
I told him that would take a hell of a long time and would ruin our friendship as he'd have to do something very non-consensual to me for me to hate him ever.
I just don't hit any emotions of anger or hate in play, it's not in me or so far it's not and I'm going to be surprised one day when it comes at me from nowhere.

One new male sub explained this anger in a sub during play  like this to me.
He said he's always seen spankings as hot as hell to him.
What he'd found in the several times he played is once it started to hurt he had these feelings of anger well up on him.
He said he thought it was his natural instincts for self survival kicking in just like it would if he was in a fight with someone.
He said no matter how hot he thought spanking was the pain just pissed him off to the point he wanted to retaliate on the one that caused it.
He said once it stopped he no longer felt the urge to beat up the Dom.
It was not a rational thing for him it's just how it went for him in the processing of the sensation.

To kyra,
I personally never even considered the aftercare was for the Dom too. I thought it was the Doms job to bring the sub down and reconnect to her.
Wow, what a concept that the Dom needs aftercare too.
suzanne

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
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