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Forced Masculinisation? - 1/8/2007 11:55:02 PM

LadyEllen

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OK - this was brought up by someone in another thread; why are there no threads about forced masculinisation!?

Further - what would be involved in "forced masc"? Forced fem (if its ever forced, that is) seems clear enough, though maybe only because its far more familiar, but are we talking sensible shoes, suit and tie here, or something more/different?

Anyone into this? (no judgements though please!)

NB - this isnt about FtM TS guys, in the same way that forced fem is nothing to do with the likes of me!

Lastly - I posted this in this section not because its a stupid/humorous topic, but because posting it in other places tends to attract over seriousness that often turns into antipathy against crossdressers, most of whom are nice people however misunderstood and however much a few might taint their reps.

E

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 12:18:01 AM

RobertCloud

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Since this is not something I would consider.
Let me see if I understand it correctly first.
This is the forcing of a female to appear more masculine.
Therefore, you would bind her breasts, so that it is hiding them. You might force her to put a roll of socks in her pants to fake a man's unit.
You would force them to dress in a manly manner, you would force them to cut or at least hide their hair in such a way that no one would know it is feminine. You would force them to speak in a lower tone, you would force them to perhaps even at sometime during the day add a little dark to their face to fake a five-o-clock shadow, depending on the color of their hair.
You might even force them to do some exercises to beef up certain muscles so that they appear more masculine.

Now, that is my understanding of this. My main question is, WHY? This is not crossdressing as you pointed out, this is to hide their gender from the outside world. So much so that the outside world actually thinks a man lives in the house with you. I just do not understand this as I do not see hiding what someone is, but that is me.

Perhaps, with Lesbianism, it makes more sense, and I am not putting them down. But in a heterosexual couple to me it makes no sense at all. Now, maybe someone could explain the fetish to me, and I realize it is a fetish, and not every fetish will make sense to every person, but I would like to understand it better.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 12:30:23 AM

CalliopePurple

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There was a thread about it...sometime in 2005, I believe. I know I was asked for opinion then because of my gender confusion and fun. I will attempt to re-explain my thoughts here, partially to answer Robert's question and partially just because I want to.

Forced masculinization, to me, would not be long-term. It would be to make a girly-girl I'm with feel entertainingly out of place for a bit and to get her to see things in a new light. There's something very very attractive to me about a girl in a well-done suit, either with short hair or with long hair pulled back. The voice isn't an issue because I want to know that's a girl under there. And since I'm essentially a mostly-straight guy in a female body, I think that answers the question about heterosexual couples well enough. If not, I'll clarify myself more.

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boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 12:30:39 AM

LadyEllen

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Robert - I have no idea whether it exists as a fetish as such. Its something I've never come across, hence the thread.

Its really a question of whether there are women out there who (might) enjoy "forced masc" in the same way that some men out there enjoy "forced fem", and how would one go about it?

It is crossdressing, in the same way that forced fem is crossdressing. It doesnt necessarily relate to lesbianism though, in the same way that crossdressing males are not necessarily gay.

What I'm wondering about too, is that if forced fem is about humiliation of the male by removing his maleness, does it work the same the other way around?

E

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 12:44:37 AM

RobertCloud

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That does explain it better, C.. Thank you... In your case I would understand it. Still it would not be something I would do.

E.. I do not think in C's case it would be humiliation, but perhaps in someone elses.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 12:47:25 AM

LadyEllen

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Robert - I'm not talking about the likes of CP, just as forced fem doesnt apply to me as a TS woman, forced masc doesnt apply to him either!

TS/TG is separate from TV/CD. Forced masc, like forced fem is something TV/CDs might partake in.

E

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 1:01:03 AM

RobertCloud

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My understanding was forced genderization is something that a straight person is forced to do. No matter what the situation of their Significant Other is.

If I were to force a female slave to appear masculine, then I would be doing forced masculinization.
Yes, I can see you point that a TV/CD may do it to their partner, but would it not also be something that is more likely done by someone who is ultra paranoid of losing their slave, or just wants no one to even know that they have a woman in the house at all. My example of a man hiding his slave from the world is called isolation, and that does happen, too often, and actually is considered a form of abuse. Yet, I could also see it as a bit of a fetish.

In CP's description CP was talking about the partner being forced to dress as a man, so it would have applied. That is why I could see CP's point. In your case if you had a male sub and forced them to dress as a woman, I could see the same point.

But I understand where you are coming from, you want another perspective from someone that has done it, and I am someone that is curious as to why? I can see CP's point though.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 5:25:49 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

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i wonder how many men would benefit from this subject...LOL

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 7:39:46 AM

ToGiveDivine

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LadyEllen,

I'm sure Forced Masc is possible, but I don't think it has the same impact as Forced Fem. Women have been able to wear mens clothing for decades and it has become quite acceptable. (e.g. Diane Keaton in pretty much all of her movies)

For quite a few men, being forced to feminize is contrary to the way we were raised. Hey, we're men, we're macho, we have to prove our manliness, yada, yada, yada.

For me, I would be terribly uncomfortable to be made to dress as a woman - it's out of my comfort zone. If the Domme is someone who enjoys to humilate in that fashion, I'd be loads of fun for her. I would be mortified if I had to do it in public - I have some self-esteem issues anyway (parents can really mess you up LOL) and having everyone on the street seeing me like that could possibly be too much for me to handle.

Maybe if you made the woman wore a fake, yet realistic looking, mustache or something like that. The point is, the woman would in some way have to be recognized as a woman that is dressed to be a man (as in, obvious she's doing the CD thing and not just being stylish - like Ms. Keaton).

My 2 cents at any rate

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/9/2007 5:16:29 PM

CalliopePurple

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I'm gonna agree with ToGiveDivine's post - forcing a girl to wear men's clothing isn't awkward or humiliating at all unless the girl is so feminine that she can't imagine it. In which case, I'd have fun ordering her to wear a suit and tie if she played with or submitted to me. You can also humiliate a tomboy by forcing her to be extra-pretty for a day or so. In either case, it's awkward and humiliating by forcing the person to be vastly outside her comfort zone, which is exactly the same reason it humiliates guys. Haven't actually done either, yet, but I want to at some point!

Robert, almost anything can be and probably is a fetish or kink to someone out there in the world, even if you haven't heard of it yet. The reasoning it is arousing is sometimes only a person truly into it could explain and understand.

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/10/2007 8:52:28 AM

ToGiveDivine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

I'm gonna agree with ToGiveDivine's post

Agree with me ?!??!?! Never a good thing ;-D

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These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/10/2007 8:51:50 PM

dcnovice

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My dad once got me a subscription to Sports Illustrated. Does that count?

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 7:13:30 AM

LaTigresse

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With the changes in what is percieved as feminine dress now I think it would not have the same affect on a woman as it will on a man (forced fem). We are used to wearing trousers or jeans, shoes that are more masculine (boots, sneakers), hair that can be worn very short yet considered feminine and sexy, going without makeup is common. I just don't see the mental affect being all that dramatic.

Perhaps 100 years ago when women rarely wore trousers and most of them had long hair, it would be something to consider.

One of the joys of being a woman now is having the freedom to virtually dress however we want, wear our hair however, etc. etc., and still be uniquely feminine.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 12:25:49 PM

QuietlySeeking

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I knew a female submissive who enjoyed being dressed as a man, not necessarily forced masculinization, but masc. nonetheless. It brought her WAYY out of her comfort zone to go out in public with no makeup, without all of the baubles (rings, earrings, etc), her hair flat, and wearing a small strap-on beneath her clothing.

When she walked, she finally began to understand the whole process of "adjusting".

It's not the same, but peeing in a men's bathroom can have a profound effect on a woman's psyche!

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 1:33:15 PM

pahunkboy

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back in the day [college] we had are unisex dress code. [not official] jeans and t-shirt. or jeans and zip up jogging top. it really was quite comfy-and im guilty for being dressed as such right now. i dont know what the kids wear now.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 1:39:49 PM

ToGiveDivine

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LadyEllen,

Would you consider the first 34 years of your life as Forced Masculinity? (One of those freudian type questions)

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Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 1:52:47 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

With the changes in what is percieved as feminine dress now I think it would not have the same affect on a woman as it will on a man (forced fem). We are used to wearing trousers or jeans, shoes that are more masculine (boots, sneakers), hair that can be worn very short yet considered feminine and sexy, going without makeup is common. I just don't see the mental affect being all that dramatic.

Perhaps 100 years ago when women rarely wore trousers and most of them had long hair, it would be something to consider.

One of the joys of being a woman now is having the freedom to virtually dress however we want, wear our hair however, etc. etc., and still be uniquely feminine.

we are more casual today then 100 years ago.

i cant imagine being a woman- the way many men only see a meat rack. to be feminine with out attracting unwanted male attn- has got to be a balancing act.
the balancing of such seems harder then a forced masculinatsation.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 2:10:49 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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I could probably be said to have this kink much more than forced fem kink since I love men in all their glory. My background, with my dad and uncles influenced my thinking on what it means to be a man/masculine.

I would say I picked up the following ideas on what masculine men are: they were always dressed in a clean/dignified manner, wearing short sleeved shirts if they were relaxed at home, going to manual labor work, or on incredibly hot days; otherwise they wore collared shirts with long sleeves, trousers, and shoes rather than sneakers. Masculine men to me are hard working types, who shy away from gossip, possess common sense advice when asked, are respectful to everyone (especially women) and on the soft side with the women in their lives. Basically masculinity means a man who is strong (emotionally and to some extent physically), diginified in manner and appearance based on the above qualities. So if my man was lacking in these regards, I would probably nudge him in the direction of being more this way, therefore more masculine in my opinion. M

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 5:28:03 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

With the changes in what is percieved as feminine dress now I think it would not have the same affect on a woman as it will on a man (forced fem). We are used to wearing trousers or jeans, shoes that are more masculine (boots, sneakers), hair that can be worn very short yet considered feminine and sexy, going without makeup is common. I just don't see the mental affect being all that dramatic.

Perhaps 100 years ago when women rarely wore trousers and most of them had long hair, it would be something to consider.

One of the joys of being a woman now is having the freedom to virtually dress however we want, wear our hair however, etc. etc., and still be uniquely feminine.

Okay, but for the sake of argument, what if you were "masculinized" to the point where strangers had difficulty in determining your gender? What effect would that have on you if you've never considered yourself to be anything but feminine? How about being called "sir" by a waiter?

Interesting idea. A few items...
Less taboo/emotional baggage to challenge- growing up, IMO, a girl being a "tomboy" is more acceptable than a boy being a "sissy"- less stigma in adulthood too, i'd say. So, less power (less allure) for the sub.
For the heterosexual male dominant who would "force macho" a submissive female, would this make him gay?

(joke) But, to practice gross generalization, i'd say that het maledoms are less willing to play with gender and sex roles than women are.
Humiliation play in general seems to appeal more to male subs than female. If it's not humiliation play, then what exactly is it? If it is humiliation play, i think it would have to push a button specific to that submissive in order to be effective, otherwise it would just be awkward instead of humiliating; not nearly as universal as defacement, forced exposure, verbal humiliation, etc.

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RE: Forced Masculinisation? - 1/11/2007 7:30:29 PM

RedSavageSlave

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Fast reply,,

I saw this thread and the first thing I thought of was "The Marines"

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