RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (Full Version)

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Wyrd -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 8:50:37 AM)

Any of us with years in the lifestlye and experience have a responsibility of sorts to pass on our knowledge to make the lifestyle more than it is, this is mentoring, it does not mean being in a "mentor/trainee" relationship, too often when the word mentor is used, it really means the "sort of dom that likes to play with me, but does not want the responsibility", which is definatly the wrong title to give them.

I mentor anyone who asks a question or asks to see something done, if it is in my skill level to do it comfortably, but that is not an ongoing mentorship, I have different people watch things, different people come over, different people ask, I do not seek to control them or be responsible for them, I simply provide knowledge, those I do take responsibility for, I call slave.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 12:47:30 PM)

i agree i think we do have a responsibility to keep people from doing stupid shit to themselves and others....i know i am in the minority...but in my mind that is they way life works out best, every one looking out for eachother....[;)]



LadyHugs -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 1:46:58 PM)

Dear SimplyMichael aka CrappyDom and or other alias,

Your post does not surprise me.  It continues a historical pattern as well as a documented personal hatred that skews any posts as it connects to me.

As far as control issues go, I have no issues or desires to 'control.'  If anybody has control issues, it is you who keeps to assumptions, intentional insults, false allegations and skewing anything I write.  If you look at the meaning of mentor--it means advisor, coach, councelor and guide among other things. 

I will say again, that through forums we (in general) act as advisors, as coaches, as guides and at times councelors.  It can be said, that in this manner, we (in general sense) mentor in a way.  And, I stress--in a way.

It is indeed important for individuals to watch, listen and learn, ask questions and gather information, knowledge, skills and or any other aids in individual journeys to do so.  People are intelligent enough to gather what they want and or need for themselves and not have individuals chase off people who have a different point of view and aren't in the clique.

That said -- Offering assistance and offering to share, does not automaticly make that person a predator.  I do not charge for my knowledge and or skills, something you refuse to acknowledge and falsely claim I do on a repeated basis.

What is sad -- is that you make it personal, instead of staying on the issues of the topic and seemingly lack the control to do so.  That is so disappointing.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs



Falcon40 -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 1:56:54 PM)

Aside from what other people have already said, egos get in the way for some people, on both sides.  Others simply neglect the most basic requirement, which is that you have to pick someone who has common interests.  A mentor does not necessarily have to have a compatible sexual orientation, but he or she does have to have similar preferences, otherwise no amount of experience will help much.



simplyangelic1 -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:12:17 PM)

Define Mentor.  Cause what I've seen called mentors has been nothing more than online Doms who snatch up new subs and "place them under protection" protection from what I'm not sure. Just go into a couple of the CM chat rooms and you will see a number of subs under the protection of the same few Doms.  I see it as a way to control without the commitment, if you can truly control someone via the internet, but that's another issue.

To me a mentor should be someone who teaches.  Dominants new to the lifestyle learning from more experienced ones.  Same for subs. 



domiguy -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:17:48 PM)

Maybe I am off base or maybe I view this differently than most of you...I think as this in terms of a "personal" relationship... Something where the intangibles are palpable...To me  this is as much about human relationships as it is to identifying your dom/sub self.  I know not all of you feel that way...Your sub might as well just be another tool, such as a broom or a rag...so this is not directed at you.

I consider myself extremely ignorant of certain aspects of the "lifestyle," and I'm not sure actually how somethings became incorporated with it.  Now if I was to decide to pick up a whip or want to tie some intricate knots it would be wise to put in some serious practice or get in contact with someone to show me the "ropes"... no pun intended. Other than that, your help is not needed..it would be interfering in a personal relationship.

So my (stressing the word..MY) relationships are based on what I and the woman/sub talk over and explain as to what are the pivotal provisions that are necessary for each of us to have a healthy effective relationship...Don't quite see how a mentor  fits into this formula without being "creepy.'  I personally do not believe people that say they're objective....and that they check their emotions at the door! I believe the relationship is way to personal....and those that supposedly are doing the guiding...way to often use their expertise as a way to get the person in their "charge" to do for them ....what someone not so naive would  ever consider participating in.".... There is just way to large of a possibility for a conflict of interests to arise than to justify this type of a relationship,,,,again I find the whole "Mentoring" thing extremely "creepy." 

Just my two big hairy pennies...now banter amongst yourselves.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.



MaryT -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:18:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

I will say again, that through forums we (in general) act as advisors, as coaches, as guides and at times councelors.  It can be said, that in this manner, we (in general sense) mentor in a way.  And, I stress--in a way.


I like the word much better when used as a verb instead of title.  You don't come across as being insistent or self-seeking in any of your posts and I find them enlightening.  

MaryT



MaryT -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:23:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Maybe I am off base or maybe I view this differently than most of you...I think as this in terms of a "personal" relationship... Something where the intangibles are palpable...To me  this is as much about human relationships as it is to identifying your dom/sub self.  I know not all of you feel that way...Your sub might as well just be another tool, such as a broom or a rag...so this is not directed at you.


I'm not sure if it's not directed at the broom/rag or the Dom who thinks in those terms, but both men and women actually do discuss how to navigate intimate relationships and other personal relationships, such as managing children and coping with parents.  I don't see why a D/s relationship would be any different, except that others involved in that sort of relationship might not turn pale and run away when discussing it.

MaryT



Kirei -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:28:48 PM)

The question one should ask the mentor is how do they define it?  Then see if what they are doing actually follows their own code.  Your actions should give your words weight.  I, like Mary T., would define mentor as a verb, meaning some course of action the person takes.  If the person never shows this action, then maybe they should stop using the word to describe themselves.



Fitznicely -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 4:36:15 PM)

I'd just like to say thank you for the things I've learned in this thread. I don't play online, so didn't know anything about the power games and "protection" thing.

What a crock of shit. The very thought of manipulating someone who'd trusted you enough to come to you for advice and/or training? *shudder*

I see mentoring as something you're asked to do following good word of mouth from other people who have been impressed by your words/deeds over time.

Those that declare themselves such should be the last ones you trust.



domiguy -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 5:17:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Maybe I am off  base or maybe I view this differently than most of you...I think as this in terms of a "personal" relationship... Something where the intangibles are palpable...To me  this is as much about human relationships as it is to identifying your dom/sub self.  I know not all of you feel that way...Your sub might as well just be another tool, such as a broom or a rag...so this is not directed at you.


I'm not sure if it's not directed at the broom/rag or the Dom who thinks in those terms, but both men and women actually do discuss how to navigate intimate relationships and other personal relationships, such as managing children and coping with parents.  I don't see why a D/s relationship would be any different, except that others involved in that sort of relationship might not turn pale and run away when discussing it.

MaryT

MaryT  I got to admit that sometimes your responses perplex Ol' D.G. slightly, you seem to put a d/s relationship ahead of a 'nilla one where I view them as extremely similiar only the aspects of the d/s "one" might potentially make it more difficult to sustain....

Back to the point at hand, about communication.  .If I viewed you as nothing more than a tool (domiguy pauses waiting for chuckling to subside) then it is possible that whatever opinions,values and voice that you had.. would be irrelevant...at least to me.  Because your only purpose is to serve me 24/7.. regardless of whether your own wants and needs are being met. Not exactly What "I"(again referring strictly to D.G.) would call the soundest of personal relationships...based on once again...what "I" deem to be important in "my" ongoing relationships... but I am sure there are others who would disagree with that statement.

Now that being said, I doubt that there are many relationships based on that kind of total 24/7 exchange but I have been around enough to know that they do exist.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.



MaryT -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 5:30:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
MaryT  I got to admit that sometimes your responses perplex Ol' D.G. slightly,


Please be assured that you are in good company.  [:)]

quote:

you seem to put a d/s relationship ahead of a 'nilla one where I view them as extremely similiar only the aspects of the d/s "one" might potentially make it more difficult to sustain....


And more difficult to talk about.  I couldn't very well saunter up to the water cooler crowd and talk about the whipping he gave me last night and how he seemed so distant afterwards ... without someone calling an EAP rep!  It would be more natural (and certainly more wise) to talk to another submissive.  I assume it would work the same way for Doms.
quote:


Back to the point at hand, about communication.  .If I viewed you as nothing more than a tool (domiguy pauses waiting for chuckling to subside) then it is possible that whatever opinions,values and voice that you had.. would be irrelevant...at least to me.  Because your only purpose is to serve me 24/7.. regardless of whether your own wants and needs are being met. Not exactly What "I"(again referring strictly to D.G.) would call the soundest of personal relationships...based on once again...what "I" deem to be important in "my" ongoing relationships... but I am sure there are others who would disagree with that statement.


I'm actually in agreement with you (please don't faint).  It is a relationship, which means that there are at least two human beings involved - not mops and brooms.  It all seems kind of silly to me sometimes too, because the truth is if I am not happy - I am going to leave.  A friend once told me of something someone pointed out to her.  She saw herself as kind of a super-subbie, and the question posed was:  "What if he decides never to touch you again, never to speak to you again, never to acknowledge your existence in any form?  Would you still stay?"

Kind of brings reality crashing home, no?  [:)]

MaryT



SimplyMichael -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 6:54:26 PM)

Ladyhugs,

When you posted offering a CD of your wisdom (which you wisely no longer do) you claimed you had made multiple presentations in front of what you insinuated were large groups.  When I called you on that, you revealed that many of those groups had less than 20 members not all of whom showed up to receive your wisdom.   

I have called you on other tidbits of wisdom, most of whom you have stopped repeated when I exposed the truth.

Now you are claiming I said you charged for mentoring?  Please provide a link to that and since you can't, please offer up an apology for wrongly accusing me of something in a lame attempt to gather sympathy.

As for my "historical pattern" I certainly have one.  I lambaste the pompous, expose the frauds, and do my best to be as open and brutally honest about myself and my experiences as possible.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 7:08:40 PM)

[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]...this feud makes me sad.



MaryT -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 7:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As for my "historical pattern" I certainly have one.  I lambaste the pompous, expose the frauds, and do my best to be as open and brutally honest about myself and my experiences as possible.


Maybe you should get over the past, and yourself, already.  This is not productive.

MaryT



GregoryMK -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 7:27:28 PM)

Fundamentally a Mentor is supposed to be someone who has been there before you and can guide you.  Male Doms do not have the experience to guide a female submissive.  A fem sub ought to have anothe rfem sub as her mentor.  I am alsays quite suspicious of male Doms who offer to mentor fem subs.

Gregory




MaryT -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 8:15:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GregoryMK

Fundamentally a Mentor is supposed to be someone who has been there before you and can guide you.  Male Doms do not have the experience to guide a female submissive.  A fem sub ought to have anothe rfem sub as her mentor.  I am alsays quite suspicious of male Doms who offer to mentor fem subs.


I posted a few weeks back about my first experience with BDSM and it involved a female sub mentor.  You might be very surprised by how many female subs want to top each other.  The woman I knew now teaches a BDSM 101 course ... but I do not believe altruism is her motivation.  Really, a friend (a peer who is an equal with no title) in a similar circumstance is a better choice, IMO.  From my POV, what we are learning is about power dynamics, so it's helpful if no such dynamic is involved in that platonic learning relationship.

MaryT



SimplyMichael -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 9:23:59 PM)

A group I started years ago and still doing quite well wanted to have "official mentors" and I fought the idea tooth and nail. 

Most of the volunteers were male doms wanting to mentor newbies.

There is still a munch in the bay area run by a couple that only allows new people.  Oddly enough the couple doesn't ban themselves from playing with those they helped into the scene.

WIIWD is fundamentally about eroticising power.  Setting yourself up in the role of "mentor" automatically slaps an "alpha" tag on your forehead.  I have great respect for those who refuse to ever, or at least put it off for a year or something, play with those they mentor.  However, that all to often means that they won't play with the "ugly ones" but first thin or young chick and that rule flies out the window.

One of the tragic things I saw all too much of is someone "helping" a new couple.  The minute the top accepts a mentor, he loses some power to the mentor.  Now, a careful and caring mentor can offset that, but most lack the skills or sadly sometimes the incentive to do so.

Bottom line, what do you need a mentor for?  To get advice?  If someone will only give you advice if you choose them for a mentor, what sort of person are they really?



crouchingtigress -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 10:02:08 PM)

micheal that was a very informative post , thank you, i guess i had a vauge idea there was abuses but i did not know there were so many.
 
this was positivly squicky
quote:

Most of the volunteers were male doms wanting to mentor newbies

 
if that was my experiance was like that i would be creeped out but them too. this part here was very insightful
quote:

WIIWD is fundamentally about eroticising power.  Setting yourself up in the role of "mentor" automatically slaps an "alpha" tag on your forehead.  I have great respect for those who refuse to ever, or at least put it off for a year or something, play with those they mentor.  However, that all to often means that they won't play with the "ugly ones" but first thin or young chick and that rule flies out the window.

 



LadyHugs -> RE: Why do you think mentors have such a bad rap? (1/11/2007 11:20:02 PM)

Dear crouchingtigress, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Abuse is abundant, in so many areas and in so many ways. 
 
What is a concern, is having someone who has had a bad experience then paints a broad brush that 'all' mentors are predators.  When it is fact that is not true. 
 
Then, it gets to the crescendo where it becomes a case of vigilante justice by a few.  Not by facts.  Not by evidence.  Not witnessed, which boils to hearsay, gossip and woven lies. 
 
It is the 'spirit' of intent that should govern the majority of the community, of any given mentor in any given area of expertise` before any mentoring takes place.
 
On the good side of 'nature' of mentoring, should be a positive experience, to where there are no strings attached.  If any strings of attachment are in place, it is a promise to show up for scheduled and agreed meetings--it is only polite to show up and or if there is a need to cancel, call and or e-mail so the person that gives their time to mentor, can resume the day/night.  In addition, in my mind's eyes I see, that all parties should be comfortable.  Any doubts and or reservations should be communicated and resolved.
 
In summary--the opportunity and or access to information, skill building and or mentoring is available.  Individuals need to select for themselves in the long run; who they wish to mentor (in the broad definition) and what area they wish to be mentored in.
 
The only wishes I have as an individual, is for those who seek extra help get it.  And, those who do seek help through a mentor, have a very positive result.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



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