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The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 4:42:08 PM

akbarbarian

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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What does it mean to you, and more specifically, does the title/role have any bearing on the number of limits or the approach to those limits stated? I am used to seeing subs have more limits, where slaves have fewer.

As Doms/daddys/Masters do you expect anything different when approaching limits or the size of the list?

One more question, has anyone heard of training courses to certify a basic understanding and protocol with relation to the goal? This is in line with old guard thinking I'm aware, but I wonder if it is very accessable today for independant singles or couples as training and status that can be aquired.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

Post #: 1

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 4:49:42 PM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

the titles themselves mean absolutly nothing to me since they have no bearing on my own relationships. The same goes with any limits that either claim to have or have not; no bearing on me personally.

I don't label myself; period. I find that the labels themselves mean absolutly nothing when talking to potential partners; all that matters is that we both agree to basically the same things. The rest works itself out.

and i made no sense at all...but oh well...it's been that kind of a day

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~~@ cass @~~

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RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 4:57:10 PM

ardelle

Posts: 63
Status: offline

greetings

the title itself has very little bearing on me, as a person, period. The only person who is determines what i am, and what my limits are, is the one who owns me

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i wish you well

josie

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 3

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:06:18 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

What does it mean to you

It does not mean anything to me personally. I can call myself anything I want but in the end, the only thing that matters is what Master perfers to call me

quote:

does the title/role have any bearing on the number of limits or the approach to those limits stated?

Nope. Master determines my limits. Period. End of story.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 4

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:21:36 PM

akbarbarian

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

It sounds to me like once owning/owned, the notions about this that were had when people were single become very meaningless. Is that the consensus so far?

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 5

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:25:01 PM

ardelle

Posts: 63
Status: offline

greetings Akbarbarian

speaking only for myself, when i beg a collar from another, i am instantly giving up any and all limits i may have had up to that point. The instant that i agree to belong to another, my life is no longer my own. It is his; totally, and completly.

edited because i am having troubles with spelling tonight

< Message edited by ardelle -- 1/12/2007 5:27:35 PM >

_____________________________

i wish you well

josie

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Post #: 6

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:32:36 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does it mean to you, and more specifically, does the title/role have any bearing on the number of limits or the approach to those limits stated? I am used to seeing subs have more limits, where slaves have fewer.

As Doms/daddys/Masters do you expect anything different when approaching limits or the size of the list?

I have to admit that I do. I have a tendency so see submissives as better matches for play partners for me and I'm more than happy to let them role a list of things off that they don't want to do. With a slave who is mine, we are matched in such as way that it seems they have few limits. Even so, we agree that I can do anything I wish. I simply choose to not do things that will harm (even though we've agreed I can).

quote:

One more question, has anyone heard of training courses to certify a basic understanding and protocol with relation to the goal? This is in line with old guard thinking I'm aware, but I wonder if it is very accessable today for independant singles or couples as training and status that can be aquired.

Check out Master Taino's slave training academy. I HIGHLY recommend the academy...our own Lady Hugs is an instructor. There's a coorseponding Master's academy of which I'm an alumni. If you are at all spiritual about the lifestyle, I HIGHLY recommend the Butchmann's academy. Masters and slaves attend together, but there are ones set up for men only, women only, everyone (pansexual) and then an advanced (also pan). Both academies are lead by wonderful people and are well worth the trip and money.

Master Taino's training academies
Butchmanns

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 7

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:34:39 PM

akbarbarian

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

Very very cool! Do you know of anything in the California area hopefully close to SF?

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 5:48:43 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

No, sorry. Butchmanns is in Phoenix. I don't know of any other nationally recognized academies. But, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Try asking around in the local community if you are constrained to a particular geographic location.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 9

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 6:15:07 PM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

I think people can call themselves whatever the hell they want to call themselves. What really matters is the dynamic in the relationship itself. As far as limits go, well, that, too, needs to be negotiated within the relationship.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 10

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 6:46:36 PM

MasterGremlin

Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

I think some P/people are comforted by labels while O/others (U/us for example) find them restrictive. I think what it really descibes (sub vs. slave) is the level or degree of submissiveness. Ultimately though, it is as bandit25 said, it doesn't matter what you call Y/yourself, what matters is how things work for Y/you.
Cordially,
minxy

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 11

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 7:52:05 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I do use labels, not so I can identify me, to me. But to weed out what I am not likely to be looking for. For clarity purposes I tell people I am a masochistic sadistic submissive bottom. Who wouldn't be a willing slave if I was tortured for a week with hot irons.

Ok.. that part does sound hot.
Nevertheless. I couldn't be a slave. And my limits are fewer than many slaves I have met.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 12

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/12/2007 9:14:07 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does it mean to you, and more specifically, does the title/role have any bearing on the number of limits or the approach to those limits stated? I am used to seeing subs have more limits, where slaves have fewer.

As Doms/daddys/Masters do you expect anything different when approaching limits or the size of the list?

One more question, has anyone heard of training courses to certify a basic understanding and protocol with relation to the goal? This is in line with old guard thinking I'm aware, but I wonder if it is very accessable today for independant singles or couples as training and status that can be aquired.

I have this list of "hard limits" on my profile. Some of them he has already taken me past with no objection on my part whatsoever. The others really are meaningless to me now, I consider myself a submissive, he considers himself a dominant personality and my Daddy... so hmmmm, I do not know how to answer that question you pose.

For example, he stated he wants to do knife play with me, it is listed as a hard limit on my profile. I had forgotten that was so, and yet I am eager to try this... with him. I think to put it into context would be important. My Daddy has a third degree black belt in a discipline that he can mention if he wants (I have seen the certificates on his wall). He has taught women self defense, more specifically how to defend themselves against weapons. He has attended conferences that were presented by experts in knife fighting also. He owns several knives. I will remove this limit with HIM, because he has mastered many things dealing with weapons and defense. I would not so easily let someone else do so.

It is all context when it comes to limits... they can keep us alive and whole after all.

I hit "send too soon... on edit I want to add:

I do not know of "protocol". In my relationship we never went over a checklist. He told me he would gain consent as we went along for every new action he wanted to try with me, once my consent is given for that activity, it is given, he never has to "ask" again. If I refuse, I must ask him if I want to try it at a later date. I have not refused him anything.

Re-edited to state that limits keep people whole in my opinion, which is only an opinion, and I know a lot of people do not agree with it in the context of their relationship.... that is more than cool with me.. I only live my own life.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/12/2007 9:22:00 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 13

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 7:18:46 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

My view is not popular.
I think a sub owns herself and is permitted to keep preferences.
I feel a slave is owned like a car.
They can break down and not function thus leaving the Master on the side of the road stuck, but other than that he owns them and they have no other rights or limits in my mind if they indeed are a full slave and not playing at it.
suzanne

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 14

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 9:12:29 AM

wolffeathers

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline

A sub is someone that is submissive. They have limits. They have the right to say NO to something, just because they don't feel like it that night. A sub does what it does to please itself, with their Dom as a concern

A slave is someone that is owned. This means that the person that owns them has all rights. A slave can beg for something not to happen, but when they said they would be a slave, they have given consent to anything. A slave lives to please others, not themselves.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

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Post #: 15

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 9:30:24 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

have the right to say NO to something, just because they don't feel like it that night. A sub does what it does to please itself, with their Dom as a concern

But the submissive and the slave face the same consequences for their refusal, dismissal from the presense of the dominant. I submit because I choose to, but he can withdraw his dominance for choosing not to. In fact he would not be my dom anymore if I chose to assert myself by saying no without a pretty damn good reason. Now a slave and a submissive are the same in that regard to my mind, both can say "no" if they want to deal with the consequences of that action.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to wolffeathers)

Post #: 16

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 9:30:25 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolffeathers

A sub is someone that is submissive. They have limits. They have the right to say NO to something, just because they don't feel like it that night. A sub does what it does to please itself, with their Dom as a concern

Damn, i wish you were around to tell my former Daddy doms that....could have saved me a lot of ass whippin's when i tried to say 'NO!' to something. LOL

(in reply to wolffeathers)

Post #: 17

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 9:58:13 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

How disappointing. From the thread title, I thought this was going to be a discussion of old subs.

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Post #: 18

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 11:05:45 AM

MaryT

Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
My view is not popular.
I think a sub owns herself and is permitted to keep preferences.
I feel a slave is owned like a car.

And if his preference is that she keep her preferences and yet he calls her his slave, does that mean he is wrong?

MaryT

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 19

RE: The old sub versus slave topic - 1/14/2007 11:08:00 AM

MaryT

Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

It sounds to me like once owning/owned, the notions about this that were had when people were single become very meaningless. Is that the consensus so far?

Consensus? You seem to have masochistic tendencies, AK.

MaryT

(in reply to akbarbarian)

Post #: 20

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