End of the Union......dissolution of Britain

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Dtesmoac -> End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 6:39:14 PM)
Recent survys in the UK indicate a majority in both Scotland and England for an end to the Union and therefore the End of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So Is it going to happen? - .....I have thought that this will be the most likely scenario from the moment that the Scottish parliament occured. When? - .......my guess is about 10 years And what will be the next stage? - .........Scotland is pro-European whilst England is Eurosceptic, would England remain on the edge of Europe or leave completely? What would happen to the UN veto - my guess is the EU would argue that they should have it....... Apart from the Brits, would anyone else care? ........probably not, the French would love it and recreate the auld alliance with Scotland, Brussels would rub their hands with glee, and the US wouldn't notice.....!

Sinergy -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 6:51:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac Recent survys in the UK indicate a majority in both Scotland and England for an end to the Union and therefore the End of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So Is it going to happen? - .....I have thought that this will be the most likely scenario from the moment that the Scottish parliament occured. When? - .......my guess is about 10 years And what will be the next stage? - .........Scotland is pro-European whilst England is Eurosceptic, would England remain on the edge of Europe or leave completely? What would happen to the UN veto - my guess is the EU would argue that they should have it....... Apart from the Brits, would anyone else care? ........probably not, the French would love it and recreate the auld alliance with Scotland, Brussels would rub their hands with glee, and the US wouldn't notice.....! Reminds me of Quebec wanting to secede from Canada. They have no real industry. They have no real ability to produce their own food. They would go from being a first world to a third world country overnight. Yet when it went to a vote a few years ago, the people of Quebec almost voted to do it. Too blinded by their nationalistic jingoist ideals to think about what happens when the secession party ends. Although, if the United Kingdom splits up, perhaps in a few years the rest of us will be singing Wales, Wales, uber alles in Gaelic. Do these people have any idea what they are going to do when they secede? Boggles the imagination. Sinergy

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 7:32:51 PM)
Reminds me of Quebec wanting to secede from Canada. They have no real industry. They have no real ability to produce their own food. I've had conversation with a number of scots and they tend to pin their hopes on the Oil Industry and on Europe providing them with the investmant that Ireland has had which has taken them from virtual third world to economically vibrant over the last 15 years. They would go from being a first world to a third world country overnight. Yet when it went to a vote a few years ago, the people of Quebec almost voted to do it. Too blinded by their nationalistic jingoist ideals to think about what happens when the secession party ends. I'm not sure that it will be the Scots that vote to depart so much as that England will call for independance. There is quite a swing away from the Union within England, partially becuase they think that they have paid for the Scittish parliament and the Welsh assembly. Although, if the United Kingdom splits up, perhaps in a few years the rest of us will be singing Wales, Wales, uber alles in Gaelic. It will be interesting what happens with Wales, I have a lot of family their and independence is not really as big an issue as it once was, but they could get caught by an English "arising" mentallity whereby they are not wanted.

dcnovice -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 7:37:39 PM)
But then that lovely flag would unravel!

DomKen -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 7:48:19 PM)
I'm of Scottish descent, clan Shaw, and fervently hope the English will go away and leave my ancestral homeland alone. I would seriously think about investing in a free Scotland.

dcnovice -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 8:03:20 PM)
On a South African tour in 1947, Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mum) met an Afrikaner (sp?) farmer who said he liked the royal family and all but didn't relish his country's being ruled from Westminster. Her Majesty smiled, saying, "I understand perfectly. We feel the same way in Scotland."

sleazy -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/12/2007 9:59:12 PM)
Personally I do think that the idea that there is an ability for elected representatives to vote for or against ideas that have absolutely no real effect on their voters quite stupid. Oil money is finite. Ireland has done quite well with technology companies opening offices and plants there as there was all the funding from the EU and an underdeveloped nation to invest in with favourable interest rates and costs compared to the rest of the EU. Let us not forget what happens when a economy reaches the top of its boom.. Poland etc will get similar investment in heavier industries because of the availability of cheap labour and raw materials. As a business investor Scotland has little to offer realistically other than tourism or cattlepen call centres, even those being limited to one small strip of the country. It would be easier for scotland to be seperated as it already has a completely indepenent legal system, whereas welsh law is also english law in the vast majority of cases Surely Domken, that would give the citizens of Illinois the equal right to ship you back too, after all surely you cannot argue for forced emigration if you are not prepared to suffer it yourself? [:D]

meatcleaver -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 3:16:12 AM)
As an Englishman one gets bored of the endless whining from north of the border and the Scots blaming us for everything from occupation to it raining north of the border too much. The Scots should remember, the last two conflicts between the two countries was started by them! It's not our fault they lost them. As for the clearances, it was Scots doing that too! It would be doing every Englishman a favour if they voted for separation and after all what is Scotland? Its population and economy is similar to that of Yorkshire, yet the Scots get more money from the exchequer than Yorkshire and if they think they will get money from the EU, they are mistaken, gone are the days when the EU throws money at a country. Ireland was the last country to get money thrown at it by the EU (Much of it British and German money incidently) but it won't happen again, both countries aren't in the mood for giving more cash to the EU without meaningful reform. They can keep their oil, it won't pay for Scottish proliferate public sector, they will have to make public spending cuts and introduce economic reform, which is needed anyway, though if it happened under the auspices of the UK, the Scots would be blaming the English for making them economically bleed. Let them do it themselves and take the burden off England.

meatcleaver -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 3:33:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac And what will be the next stage? - .........Scotland is pro-European whilst England is Eurosceptic, would England remain on the edge of Europe or leave completely? What would happen to the UN veto - my guess is the EU would argue that they should have it....... Apart from the Brits, would anyone else care? ........probably not, the French would love it and recreate the auld alliance with Scotland, Brussels would rub their hands with glee, and the US wouldn't notice.....! The French have led Scotland up the garden path of several occasions but the Scots are too blind to see it and prefer to blame the English for their woes. No doubt the French will lead them a merry dance again and Scotland will be seduced by the flirtation only to be let down yet again. England would be better off without Scotland, Scotland's contribution to the UK is overestimated anyway. It has less than 5 million people and an economy in deficit without an English contribution. England's military wouldn't necessarily have to be reduced but no doubt the UN veto would have to go but then there is pressure on the French veto too. The EU having two vetoes is absurd and the UN needs to be reformed and this has been discussed a lot so no doubt the French veto will go with the British veto. After all, Germany has started to play a big roll in the UN and it has a bigger economy than the UK and France and doesn't have a veto. England would probably feel more comfortable in the EU without Scotland and I suspect Scotland won't feel as comfortable in the EU as it expects to because no one is really going to listen to them because they have no political clout without Enngland. One of the reasons the constitution went down was because Holland as a small country would be ignored and their population is 3 to 4 times the size of Scotland and their economy something like 8 times the size. Scotland's independence will give the Scots a lot of home truths and they are welcome to them. However, it won't affect England that much or at least not in a negative way and we will be able to say goodbye to all those ambitious Scots in Parliament. No doubt they will find Scotland very parochial when they get back there.

NorthernGent -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 4:54:09 AM)
If it was my choice I would like to see Scotland and Northern England join as one country and disassociate ourselves with the monarchy, the government, london and all the bollocks that goes on down there. We'd call ourselves the Republic of Northern Britons. We would immediately declare war on the remaining "England", win the war and ship the royals, lords, ladies, the government, the church, assorted murdoch's & co, general tarquins etc off to a desert somewhere (one way journey). After the celebrations had died down we'd get down to business and start improving housing, education, hospitals etc and stop spending our money on invading countries and killing people. How's that?

caitlyn -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:02:39 AM)
Yes, we certainly wouldn't notice ... being far too busy shootin' gunz, drinkin' rockgut and a'eatin; McD's. I think the last time someone voted to leave the Union over here ... it started a bit of a fuss.

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:12:50 AM)
If it was my choice I would like to see Scotland and Northern England join as one country and disassociate ourselves with the monarchy, the government, london and all the bollocks that goes on down there. We'd call ourselves the Republic of Northern Britons. I think Northumdria or Dane Land would be a more apt name. (But I do wonder where the border of Scotland would be fixed) But the Jocks would'nt like it because they would still be a minority and would blame you for the excessive cost of any parliaments that they build over budget. We would immediately declare war on the remaining "England", win the war and ship the royals, lords, ladies, the government, the church, assorted murdoch's & co, general tarquins etc off to a desert somewhere (Central Scotland perhaps...!!!!! LOL) (one way journey). First you'd borrow money from London to purchase the wepons for your Army, by the time you were ready the revitalised new country of Greater Wessex would be ready to bribe a load of Dutch and German football fans to come over and disuade you. After the celebrations had died down we'd get down to business and start improving housing, education, hospitals etc and stop spending our money on invading countries and killing people. Nope you wouldn't because so many people would have moved down to Wessex to find work that there wouldn't be enough tax paying Northeners to afford it. And of course once the green light had been given for full devolved government Ken Livingstone would form the Country of Greater Socialist Londinium with about 32 million population and Mr Northern Gent would have to watch from the outside as a new beacon of Socialist Government sprang up to amaze the world with it's ability to go bankrupt...............!! :) The possibilities are endless, perhaps part of the devolution should be that all disputes must be settled by Football matches...........no armies allowed.

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:19:55 AM)
But you would need to find a foreign minster for old George rather than having Tony tour the world promoting his policies..........! Think of all the refugees that could pour (ok leisurely amble) over to the US to set up a ew life away from strife torn ethnically cleansed England and Scotland.......... soccer playing, tea drinking, people with bad teath replacing all those hard working Mexicans.........

missturbation -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:28:58 AM)
Think of all the refugees that could pour (ok leisurely amble) over to the US to set up a ew life away from strife torn ethnically cleansed England and Scotland.......... soccer playing, tea drinking, people with bad teath replacing all those hard working Mexicans......... I'd bet that most Brits would not go to America !! Oh and we play football not soccer, many dont drink tea and bad teeth ??? lol ur funny [:D]

NorthernGent -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I'm of Scottish descent, clan Shaw, and fervently hope the English will go away and leave my ancestral homeland alone. I would seriously think about investing in a free Scotland. It's not what foreigners imagine. We get on with the Jocks fine, no bother. There isn't widespread anti-English feeling. Plus, to lump the English as one is liking lumping all Americans as one. We're a diverse lot - a lad from Durham and a lad from Kensington will be like chalk and cheese. I can understand them wanting self-determination, sounds fair enough to me. If/when it does happen most people won't notice anyway due to other priorities. I'll be in the garden tending to my weeds and keeping the frogs in the pond happy - it'll just pass me by. Anyway, it's always a huge misconception to think the English and the Scots or the Irish for that matter don't get on and it tends to be a view outside of the British Isles. I mean, fuck me, the city I live in is pretty much half Irish - every other surname is Irish in origin. Same in Liverpool. Similarly, there's loads of Jocks down here. Ken, for the most part, it's all good and you're fighting a battle that exists mainly among establishments and would-be establishments with their associated power struggles - the rest of us (Jocks, Welsh and Irish included).....we don't give a fuck. Oh, we do have a few (but still far too many) assorted racists, bigots, nationalists, Islamophobes etc (you know the types, general arseholes who think life is about division and destruction) who will probably find some mileage in it. The Jocks quite probably have a dislike for the general toffery that goes on in the South of England but then again many Northern English feel exactly the same way so make of that what you will.

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:43:02 AM)
I'd bet that most Brits would not go to America !! Oh and we play football not soccer, many dont drink tea and bad teeth ??? lol ur funny [:D] You've just destoryed my attempt to fuel a barrage of American hyseteria about a fresh wave of illegal aliens soon to be attempting to cross into the US threatening there way of life by replacing McDs with cucumber sandwiches, the SUV with flashy hot hatches, and threatening their national tenent of winning with the ability to enjoy looseing in style (or at least frequently) . The bad teeth of Brits comes up as one of the stereotyes,..........and before comming out here I thought it was just Yorshire types that had the problem....LOL. Tea is a fast increasing drink in the US but they muck about puting flavours in it and often bag for bag / scoop for scoop it is incredibly week compared with PG or with Texcos/ Waitrose home brand.

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:48:58 AM)
NG In practise I would think half the people I kow in the England (where we normally live) have Welsh, Irish, Scots or Cornish in them within 2 generations. But in Scotland there have been a lot of complaints about anti English sentiment and people moving back south because of it. Its probably over blown though. I spent 3 years living in a village where Welsh was the First Language and we never had any problems - got invited to the lock in on the first night (impressive). I think we were the only people in the place that were English only speakers and in shops etc Welsh was used first off by everyone and they switched to English when they realised you were a "foreigner".

missturbation -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:50:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac I'd bet that most Brits would not go to America !! Oh and we play football not soccer, many dont drink tea and bad teeth ??? lol ur funny [:D] You've just destoryed my attempt to fuel a barrage of American hyseteria about a fresh wave of illegal aliens soon to be attempting to cross into the US threatening there way of life by replacing McDs with cucumber sandwiches, the SUV with flashy hot hatches, and threatening their national tenent of winning with the ability to enjoy looseing in style (or at least frequently) . The bad teeth of Brits comes up as one of the stereotyes,..........and before comming out here I thought it was just Yorshire types that had the problem....LOL. Tea is a fast increasing drink in the US but they muck about puting flavours in it and often bag for bag / scoop for scoop it is incredibly week compared with PG or with Texcos/ Waitrose home brand. Shit sorry - i was wrong all brits will be running to america. [:D] You'll all soon be eating toad in the hole, bread and butter pudding and drinking copious amounts of weak as pee tea. We'll be moaning cos the weather is too hot / cold constantly, telling you all you cant spell and teeth wise you are probably right thinking about it.

Dtesmoac -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 5:55:27 AM)
Now your getting the idea..............I'm doing some good old English stirring up the paranoia of the masses............... :) With the current news in the US the poor old locals need an oppotunity to vent their frustrations somewhere I I thought it my moral oblgation to offer an excuse to go for their old enemy (friends ) and cousins over the pond. NB - I'm moaning about the weather over here at the moment because there is a significant lack of snow (acually the yanks moan about the weather nearly as much as us Brits - they just do it more earnstly & seriously)

caitlyn -> RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain (1/13/2007 6:03:29 AM)
I think you guys still owe us for the wave of "over sexed and over here" guys from 1943-44, right? I think our tea is weak because the best of it got dumped in a harbor somewhere. [;)]

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