Does gentle Master mean weak?

Does gentle Master mean weak? (Full Version)

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dinaflower -> Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 7:39:28 PM)
this girl doesnt think so but many others have said such to many others. this girls theory is thus: the Master who can rule His girl with a simple look or word of displeasure has truly also Mastered Himself and being gentle and not quick to anger encourages a girl to try and acheive the same treatment over and over again, thus by rewarding a girl when she is good rather than just punishing her when shes bad and leaving it at that, it will initiate a cycle of positive reinforcement. ok so maybe girl didnt word that the best but she thinks her point is made. Thoughts?

toservez -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 8:08:18 PM)
No a gentle Master does not mean weak. At the same time a not so gentle Master does not mean one who is not in control, negative or quick to anger. It comes down to personalities and preferences. One is not better then the other and the best Master is the Master that works for you.

Shadowraven -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 8:12:17 PM)
I completely agree with you. I use corporal punishment on mine, but I have only done so on two occasions. We use a lot of constructive tools as well as positive reinforcement. I don't think it is my place to judge another's methods, and whatever is working for them works for them. I take a military approach though. Through punishing bad things, and I don't stop there... I explain what went wrong and how, I give suggestions on how to fix it, and I emphasize that I do not want it repeated because It hurts and dissapoints me to punish. I also feel as if I have failed somehow and I let her know this, If she misbehaves then it is a reflection on both my ability to train her, and my ability to control her... If I want a her to do any job, it is my responsibility as her loving dominant to provide her the tools with which to accomplish the job. This can range anywhere from protocols to typing up a thank-you letter or sending out the bills. She has had occurences in her past which have made her fearful of corporal punishment... so to ease her fear of being striken in anger or unjustly, he have an all-inclusive list of offences which warrant corporal punishment, and how many strikes will be given. To work on increasing her humility (she has a lot of inner pride which would be much more agreeable if it were directed to being pride in her submission) we have begun begging sessions. She will beg for small things, like a helping of dessert or whatever, and she must learn to humbly accept the answer regardless of wether she feels it is fair or not, and she must learn to accept these decisions with gratitude. To work on her temper, whenever she begins to lose her temper, I will remind her once... after this reminder, if there is no change she will "go to the pillow" and kneel in the middle of the room. She will stay there until I am ready to give her another chance to tell me her concerns in a more civilized manner. After her issues have been notably dealt with, I will begin explaining punishment and I will first give her an opportunity to "Tell me what she thinks" about why she should be punished. There is no need to be overly agressive or rude, I will make sure she knows her place and I will use patience, willpower, and temerance to aid me. My punishments are much more effective after she loses her temper, if I have shown that "I am the bigger person" by not doing so myself... this also reinforces in her own mind that she was clearly in the wrong. I believe you must also lead by example on occasion, this helps to demonstrate to the sub the exact direction or response you expect. Edit: I think that it also helps if your sub feels appreciated, just like any person OR Dom/me, they will get discouraged if all they get is negative feedback. They want to know what is good, and what they are doing right. A sub will continue to put forth amazing effort once they know they are making progress and they know that it is appreciated. I treasure mine, and I let her know it. (This also makes it that much more painful and effective when you tell her that you are dissapointed in her)

GentlehandSTL -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 8:36:13 PM)
Well I don’t think so… (dooh!) As in many things, there are lots of issues here…not the least is what might be gentle to one, might not seem that way to another. Then again what could be viewed as being gentle, is often just good sense…not ‘pushing’ an issue when it would cause damage… either the scene, or the whole evening. Or the whole relationship. But then I think I might be somewhat unique in this point: I, as a Dominate, am responsible for everything and everyone under my control. Thus, there are no ‘bad’ subs only a Dom not handling it (her) correctly. Then again ‘gentle’ can be used as a contrast with ‘hard’ petting her cheek while beating her ass… So, does a gentle Master mean weak? Not at all.

Focus50 -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 10:11:57 PM)
Some say you can't truly enjoy pleasure to its utmost without complimenting pain for perspective. While I agree, I would also say the same of punishment and reward, and I think it rather sad that too many seem more focused on the punishment aspect. But unlike pleasure & pain, I'd still prefer an imbalance of punishment & reward - in favour of reward.... I like your wording; your point is made.... :-) Focus.

morygan -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/13/2007 10:37:05 PM)
hello dinaflower in my opinion, no, a gentleness found in a Master does not equal weakness. i have found the exact opposite; that those who are able to show gentleness and compassion are actually stronger mentally, intellectually, and emotionally.

completenz -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 12:28:19 AM)
hi morygan i couldn't agree more or say it better

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 12:30:21 AM)
http://www.collarchat.com/m_668725/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#668733 Too polite? http://www.collarchat.com/m_505491/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#505668 Seeking consensus: dominant as gentleman? http://www.collarchat.com/m_433779/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#433966 Master...in slaves' eyes! http://www.collarchat.com/m_380311/mpage_2/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#384513 dom vs gentleman http://www.collarchat.com/m_266268/mpage_1/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#266288 the gentleman dom with feelings Is the term gentleman dom an oxymoron? Gentlemen vs nice guy

SadistDave -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 2:21:45 AM)
Everyone has their own individual strengths and weaknesses. Since strength and weakness both have a broad range of meanings (as applied) it is impossible to equate the two in this sense. For instance, morygan wrote "in my opinion, no, a gentleness found in a Master does not equal weakness. i have found the exact opposite; that those who are able to show gentleness and compassion are actually stronger mentally, intellectually, and emotionally. " However, if that same Master is incapable of taking a leadership role effectively, then the whole concept falls apart. These may very well be his only admirable qualities as a Dominant. There are many reasons that this same Dominant may be considered a "weak" Master. The strengths and weaknesses of any person can only be guaged by our own strengths and weaknesses. Let me reverse this to illustrate my point. For one Master, a submissive who is service oriented and likes to serve meals, light his cigatrettes, etc. may be a good submissive because these traits compliment his desire to be served in that capacity. However, another Master may think she is a poor submissive because she insists on performing these tasks even though she is well aware that they do not compliment his desires. A submissive who does not require or desire strict leadership may very well believe that an overly punative Master is overcompensating for some other weakness. By the same token, a submissive who needs and desires extreme control and forceful punishment may believe that the kinder, gentler, soft-spoken Master is weak. When two peoples strengths and weaknesses compliment each other, they often find strength in and from each other. When they do not; weakness. It is all a matter of perspective. Consider: According to your profile, you love to fish. How many people that you have regularly gone fishing with, who consistantly catch less fish than you, do you believe to be good fishermen? Probably none. Chances are that the people you percieve as good fishermen are as good as you. If there is someone you admire as a fisherman, he is probably someone you believe to have superior skill to your own. -SD-

eyesopened -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 2:52:43 AM)
i believe it's each person's perception of gentle and weak. Since the vast majority of folks involved in wiitwd are more into S&M, profiles and conversations normally have to use pain as the focal point and discuss around it. It's not so much BDSM as it is SMbd. With that in mind a Dom might use the adjective "gentle" to indicate His preference to the sensual, erotic and non-pain aspects of D/s. Sometimes in forums like this or even at munch groups it's generally expected that all Doms are Sadists and all subs are masochists even if on an intellectual level we know that generalization isn't true. Gentle, weak, strong, stern, kind, hard, easy are all open to interpretation.

swtnsparkling -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 3:18:47 AM)
Just a couple things from a friends profile: A Man who displays sensitivity will be a Master who is sensitive to youA Man who is not afraid to cry will be a Master who understands your tears. IMO any man who is /and can show gentleness is not at all weak

MaryT -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 5:10:15 AM)
I tend to believe that happiness is a product of kindness, which reminds me that I should try harder to be kind. If you think about what we see as good qualities in parents, policeman, medical people, animal trainers, spouses, etc., gentleness always ranks right up there.

bandit25 -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 5:11:57 AM)
I think you're right..it is a matter of perspective. As is harsh and gentle. I've never understood those that feel they have to beat submission in someone...or punish overly harshly. If you want to beat someone and she wants to be beaten, why call it punishment? It's not.

Celeste43 -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 9:30:40 AM)
Some subs do better with positive reinforcement, some with negative and others with a mix. A smart dom will learn what works best on his individual partner. For myself, I much prefer a quiet man to one that rants and raves. Uncontrolled anger is a hard limit here.

dinaflower -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 10:27:00 AM)
'twas just a question...

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 11:56:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dinaflower 'twas just a question... And that twas just a response. You're getting defensive...try opening and just let the answers mull over.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 6:30:33 PM)
There are weak Masters as there are weak subs and slaves. Gentleness does not equal weak. He is still in control and still disciplines but in a different way. Weak is being inconsistent, being immature, letting a sub or slave run rampant with not direction or control. Every submissive reacts to different styles. Gentleness may work for some, others may need a more stern physical approach.

amayos -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 6:49:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dinaflower Does gentle Master mean weak? Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Knowing the difference is one of the things that makes a Master. I do agree with you about the vital nature of positive reinforcement; without kindness and warmth somewhere, there is only the void to keep a girl company.

RobertCloud -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 6:50:34 PM)
Whether you think me weak or strong is of little concern to me, I live by my standard and the girl that eventually kneels at my feet will decide for herself if I am weak or strong. I am a gentle man, I do not like to lift a heavy hand in punishment, I would prefer to never have to punish. I am NOT a sadist. I can inflict pain, and if pain is something that my girl needs for her own self needs, I can understand this, I can even do this, does this mean I am letting her control me. No, it means I am nurturing a side of her that needs to be nurtured even if it is not a side of me that I wish to explore. I do love bondage, and Shibari is going to be a major study of mine. But when it comes to gentleness, I prefer to control with a look, and punish with a simple word. To me nothing should be more profound and hurt my girl more than for her to simply know she has displeased me and tonight she will sleep alone as will I because I do not wish to see her while I am displeased with her. For you see, I also have a very strong and powerful temper, one that in my youth I used to let loose, I have the imprint of my fist in many steel signs, and have put holes in many walls but I have never punched a person. I do not want to, my voice can get loud, loud enough to rattle glass, I would prefer not to let myself get this angry. I would prefer to keep that temper under control as I have now for many years. I have not hit anyone since I was a child, and I do not intend to start now, not in anger, yes, I can punish with a paddle, and I have one for such a purpose, but I would prefer not to. A quick look from my eyes, the flare of red in them to show anger has started to build, and a soft hiss saying I am displeased leave my sight, should be more than enough to punish most girls that know me and my gentle loving and kind nature. For I would rather hold her in my arms and kiss her warmly goodnight as we drift off to sleep than to sleep alone seething in anger. Would not anyone?

bandit25 -> RE: Does gentle Master mean weak? (1/14/2007 6:52:14 PM)
Then do come to Shibaricon this year. I've gone for two years (didn't make it last year). It's quite instructive for anyone who loves Shibari.

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