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Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:29:06 PM

Jauque

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/11/2007
From: Texas.
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First of all this looks to be a great place. *tips hat to the person who pointed him here.*

Second...there is a debtate I've been having with a friend. She says that in a true Dom/Sub relationship there can't be love. I would tend to disagree but then again my experience with the lifestyle doesn't lend my arguement any creedance.

So I avail myself to you to answer this question, or at least offer your thoughts. Can love exist between a Dom and a Sub couple? A Master/Mistress and their slave? Can you give examples or testominals one way or the other?

Its a simple question. They tend to be the most complicated though.

Sweet Dreams.
~J

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:31:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:33:44 PM

bandit25

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The first thing I would do is ask your friend to define a "true" Dom/sub relationship. I guarantee she won't be able to. What may be a true relationship to her may not be to me. With that said, of course there can be love. It may or may not be romantic, hearts and flowers love. For me...I'd be hard pressed to let someone I didn't love tie me up and beat the bejesus out of me....But that's just me :)

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:34:51 PM

bandit25

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Damn! You're fast.

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:37:40 PM

ladysekhmetka

Posts: 94
Joined: 12/31/2006
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Yo! ::waves::

Think just about everyone's going to jump on this, going "I love my Master" or "I love my Slave" and whatnot.

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:40:03 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ladysekhmetka
Think just about everyone's going to jump on this, going "I love my Master" or "I love my Slave" and whatnot.

Well, on the other hand, while my ex master and I certainly loved eachother- that's not why we were together. If the love had ceased, the ownership would not. The foundation of my relationship with him was based on authority transfer, not love. The love was a nice extra, but not necessary.

It's a rare Ms relationship in which love is not part of the formula, or the basis for the formula...but it's more common than people think.

Again, it all depends on the people involved. You really can have whatever you want.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:43:39 PM

wolffeathers

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
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Considering I married my slave, I would think there is love there. Something about To Love Each Other being part of the Oaths that were made....

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:45:35 PM

MasterGremlin

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My Master and I have been in a loving D/s relationship for almost 9 years now married almost 8, and W/we both consider it a "true" D/s relationship.
Sincerely,
minxy

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 6:57:01 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolffeathers
Considering I married my slave, I would think there is love there. Something about To Love Each Other being part of the Oaths that were made....

As I've said before, I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to marry a slave for anything other than legal or medical benefits.

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 7:46:34 PM

Kalira

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From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

Can love exist between a Dom and a Sub couple? A Master/Mistress and their slave?

It can exist, sure. But not everyone has that goal in mind. Master and I do not 'love' each other; we care for each other, but that is as far as it goes. Personally, I think that love ruins the dynamic...but that is just my opinion.

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Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 9:09:18 PM

Lashra

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I love my sub and he loves me, it can enhance the dynamic or dampen it if you allow that to happen. It takes work like any relationship but yes it can be done. I think your friend is wrong, however there are those who will not have love entering into their M/s or D/s relationships. If that floats their boat so be it, it is just not my thing.

~Lashra

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

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RE: Roses and Thorns, Leather and Love. - 1/14/2007 9:28:48 PM

DominaSmartass

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These are not my original words, but I heard someone once say something along the lines of "How could I not love someone who gives himself entirely over to me to use however I see fit..." etc., we all know the line. But seriously, I think it's true. If someone gives him/herself to you as a slave, I think it would be impossible not to feel love - even if it's the same love you have for your favorite pet, car, TV set, or whatever. Doesn't mean you have to marry the person.

For more opinions that are not my own, try reading "The Loving Dominant" by John Warren, or googling "Sir Stephen and slave catharine" (International Master/slave 2005 who are Pro-romantic love in D/s, as well as Sir Larry and slave barb, who take the same view.) Or for a contradictory opinion, try looking up Jack McGeorge, who I'm sure has written extensively on this. I've heard him speak several times about the impossibility of a romantic and D/s relationship.

But point of view I agree most with is that yes, love can exist, and this is very much along the lines of what LA said...it can exist but that is not always the foundation of the relationship. You need to be clear when you enter into a D/s or M/s relationship with someone that there are 2 paths (if not more, but for argument's sake, go with me here.) Path 1 puts love as the foundation of the relationship and path 2 puts structure. If the 2 people are on the same page and can honestly say that love is the basis of the relationship, then even if the D/s slips sometimes, the relationship will continue on successfully. On the other hand, if structure is the foundation and the D/s slips (often because feelings get in the way) then the relationship will not thrive. Like LA described in her former relationship, structure was the foundation. Love was there and that was great, but even without it the structure remained. For me personally, I would choose love over structure, as many of you probably already figured by some of my earlier posts. I love and treasure the person I'm with for who he is and not merely the role he plays in my life. He could play a variety of roles and I'd love him the same. There are always other submissives around and if I feel the need to have one I'll find one, but when you find a person to love, they're worth holding onto, IMO.

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