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RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:18:05 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

Right now, the real world has me a little too stressed and upset to form a proper response to this. But I'm FTM TS, and you can always message me on the other side if you want someone who was in a similar state not long ago, sexual issues included.


Thank you for the offer. I'm sure that there are answers you have found in taking a particular path. I look forward to a meeting of the minds, and with luck, the beginnings of clarity.

(in reply to CalliopePurple)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:35:28 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

At age 22, I wouldn't worry about it.   You'll figure things out as you go along in life.


Thank you for your input. I appreciate your addition to the topic. I can only move forward and hope that in time I will find answers.

However, at age twenty-two, it's normal to have an interest in establishing interpersonal bonds... forming relationships, as well as examining what that means for the future (marriage, unmentionables, picket fences and more).

At twenty-two, while not as sage as I hope to one day be, I still feel it best to wonder and question.

I cannot expect to fully move forward with any other individual until I can move forward solidly in knowing who and what I am - in knowing what I ought to be. To enter a relationship with another, while the potential for shifting the basic foundation of the relationship exists, would be - in my opinion - unfair to any interested party. Not to mention highly irresponsible.

While relationships do tend to be a gamble, no matter what lengths we go to in order to protect our emotions and stave off failure, I don't see how it could be right or good to drastically decrease the odds with doubts and insecurities.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:38:42 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deeddlit

On Logo one evening I was watching an interview with one person that I found to be incredibly facinating.  While geneticaly female, she does not subscribe to either gender at all.  She prefers to just be seen as a person and seems to be pushing all the so called gender rules right out of her way.  She seemed to maintain a rather androgenous look leaning slightly to the masculine.  She seemed to love pushing peoples gender issue buttons as a way to not necesarily upset them but I think more than anything to make them aware of them.  Usualy the more we are aware of something it seems to always get us talking and of course talking is always better than pretending it is not there.  I was very facinated with her story.  She was in college at the time of the interview and was focusing her education on gender issues.  What a terribly interesting college career, at least from my perspective.

Take care,
Ladydeeddlit



If you could recall her name or any of the particulars with regard to this interview I would appreciate it. I'll try a Google search for "Logo", as I'm not certain what that is. A television station or show in your area, perhaps?

(in reply to deeddlit)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:39:01 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BendingGender

Hello everyone.

For a long time I've been finding myself faced with certain questions that I cannot answer at the moment.

I've not had any sort of surgery or hormonal treatments to alter my gender. But when I imagine myself having intercourse with another person (regardless of their sex) I always seem to picture myself as some sort of hybrid, with parts from both male and female forms, or entirely the opposite gender.

I find it, thus far, impossible to have satisfying sex as I am presently.
If we were living in a world hundreds of years into the future with such extreme advancements in science and medicine, so as to allow someone to change their sex as easily as they changed their socks, I know I'd leap at the chance to go between the two as often as I changed my mind. However, while I would enjoy being able to slide to and from my current gender, I don't want to be permanently trapped behind a single mask.

So the questions I find myself unable to answer are as follows:
- Am I destined to be discontent with who and what I am?
- Does this mean I'm to forever be sexually frustrated and unfulfilled?
- Are there others in a similar situation who face the same peculiarities?
- Is it possible for two very different people to inhabit the same physical presence?

I realize that a good bit of what I question can only be answered by me. I suppose I come to you all in search of someone who has felt incomplete or simply wrong in their own skin. And, hopefully, in finding someone such as that... I may also find an answer or two.


Thank goodness we live in a time when these kinds of questions can be asked (and answered) in a forum such as this...and I look forward to a time when this kind of question can be asked as openly as we order bran toast for breakfast.

I sincerely hope you find your answers.

(Wish I was smart enough to offer some).

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to BendingGender)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 7:14:33 PM   
Jauque


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/11/2007
From: Texas.
Status: offline
Logo is a television network devoted to the Gay and Lebsian and Transgendered community.  I do not have cable TV though so I am not sure of much more beyond that.

As for your quandry I am not sure what can actually be done.  From what I read you don't feel your one sex, or the either but rather netural with desires to be both as the mood suits. 

Surgery/hormones are not an option...not unless you find you make a choice...which doesn't seem to be a choice for you.

So...my advice.  Have you tried perhaps writing out your experiences as though 'changing gender as one changes socks' was an option?  Exploring this concept through a medium that is feasible and allows you to act this out more fully and determine more of the 'why' and move on from there. 

Good luck.

~J


_____________________________

The surest way to see what someone is made of is to break them apart.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 4:13:10 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

To me, domination is a masculine energy, so it makes sense to me that you feel like your a woman (cause thats what you physically are) and you feel masculine energy cause you are relating to dominant energy. I think we all have a bit of both inside us.

When I think about it and delve into myself, I feel pretty neutral on a day to day functional basis, not female, not male, yet have the qualities of both that can be applied to the situations in life to best get things done.

In sexuality, and without going into this too much, I believe sexuality has everything to do with relationship, it takes a dominant man to overcome my neutrality and call forth my femininity and it is that alchemical process that brings relationship into being. I believe our physical bodies are actually vessels for transmission of energy, and our organs have the ability to channel particular energies suited to it. Example: our physical hearts can actually channel love as an energy. ..so it makes sense to me..because I have a female form, that the most compatable energy to channel is femininity within relationship......its not that I can't display masculine type traits..but for the energy to be flowing completely and wholey...the juice thats flowing has to be compatable with the engine using it. (You can run a car on the wrong oil but it wont be as powerful as running it on the correct oil).

In relationship, I think how we feel about our sexuality and what we are feeling in it, has a lot to do with our partners (dependant of course on the fact that you're actually having a *relate*ionship with someone else and not just yourself..which i think a lot of people who look like they are in a relationship with another person, actually aren't..but thats a whole nother topic)...because relationship itself is entirely an entity unto itself, created by two people submitting to each other,  resultant from the equational conclusion of the combined energy each is capable of chanelling and bringing to the relationship.

Anyways, its from this understanding, that i can comprehend why men can feel feminine, and women can feel masculine...and its all good as long as you find a compatable partner.

Too weird?


Not too weird at all. And thank you for your take on things. I appreciate the amount of thought you put into this response. While I suspect our experiences are not the same I feel that I can still learn from what you've shared.

The more I question... the more I endeavor to unravel the wool around elusive answers... the more I find myself becoming sure of one thing. My therapist is going to wind up with a headache!

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 4:23:15 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jauque

Logo is a television network devoted to the Gay and Lebsian and Transgendered community.  I do not have cable TV though so I am not sure of much more beyond that.

As for your quandry I am not sure what can actually be done.  From what I read you don't feel your one sex, or the either but rather netural with desires to be both as the mood suits. 

Surgery/hormones are not an option...not unless you find you make a choice...which doesn't seem to be a choice for you.

So...my advice.  Have you tried perhaps writing out your experiences as though 'changing gender as one changes socks' was an option?  Exploring this concept through a medium that is feasible and allows you to act this out more fully and determine more of the 'why' and move on from there. 

Good luck.

~J



Thank you for clearing up what Logo is. The word was so often used that I feared I'd have to get creative with my Google searches in order to try to pinpoint it.

I've had it put to me on another message board that I may want to research "pangender". I looked it up and it seems a possibility. I suppose that'll be another thing I bring up with my therapist.

Surgery of some kind may or may not be an option. I'm not looking to jump into anything terribly drastic. And before such a process would even begin I'm sure I'd need to to see a slew of psychologists before anyone in their right mind would clear me for something so dramatic.

I am a pretty avid writer. And I have written about these feelings before in the past. While it provides a pleasing outlet... it's still temporary. The characters that could happily, easily deal with my ideals and exploits remain characters when I come up for some air. On the other hand, when I do, I'm left to still feel as though I'm not whole. Just the same, I'll continue writing. It's one of the only times I feel I'm closest to being what I really am.

(in reply to Jauque)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 5:27:05 PM   
enigmaslave


Posts: 146
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
I want to throw another $0.02 in.

I was very timid to say anything initially, and I still feel a small sense of fear. However, I did recognize your symptoms, and that is why I referred you to research Gender Disphorea.

I was diagnosed with having gender disphorea at 19. I am now 34 still struggling with some of the symptoms.

**********************

I also wanted to bring this to the table. This is my interpretation of what I have learned.

Some aboriginal cultures had tightly interlinked communities. The elders needed everyone to participate in the culture, or face the possibility of death for the village. To prevent those with mental gender issues from, meandering away, they were assigned “gender neutral” terms and identification and given prominent positions in the community. These Gender neutral people were often councilors and mediators, because of the ability to see the both perspective of all stories. This prominent position often gave them a different focus and a sense of responsibility for the community. That sense of purpose often surpassed their own sense of self, and this settled their mental state substantially. The felt apart of the community rather then outside of it.

In the 1800’s we were married and having children before we were 20. Today some are having children in there 40’s. Although many don’t ever question there gender identity, this child bearing time frame change has afforded some of us to truly think about our desired place in our society. The media has made everyone feel they must fit into tight parameters. (Gender, weight, size, etc.) Some of us don’t buy into those parameters all that well.

Furthermore our western society doesn’t have any “mile markers” or “rites of passage” like some other cultures do. (I.e. Jewish Bat/Bar Mitzvah”. Societal pressures of the 1800’s, tended to force people not to linger on such thoughts, let alone reveal them. They tended to get herded down the gender path. With very little after thought.

Today we have a more liberal minded society. 

So what am I trying to say?


I think there are many others out there like you.
You may not be a typical Westerner, but I think you are far from abnormal.
Truly allow you self to explore this. Enjoy this, if you can. Because if this was 200 years ago, you would likely be called insane, or be labeled a Witch, and assaulted.
Continue doing your Out-reach, and Net-working.
At 22, there are far worse things that could be happening.

And lastly, if you ever need to chat, I am here, or on hotmail or yahoo.



_____________________________

my appreciation to A/all who have read my opinion.
enigmaslave

slrn 000145067

(in reply to BendingGender)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 6:25:02 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BendingGender
I'm left to question which came first ~ the chicken (rampant fantasies in which I possess alternative genitalia) or the egg (my complete distaste - and perhaps fear of - "traditional" sex).

Thinking about sexually functioning as the opposite gender arouses me. Thinking about using my current genitalia for anything other than basic bodily functions makes me shudder with disgust.

Have I conditioned myself, I wonder. Or do my fantasies reflect my genuine interests?


i can certainly relate to that. i've spent a lot of time considering "issues" of gender and sexuality in myself, and have faced the same question of whether thoughts of transgenderism were "genuine", or a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side". Unfortunately, i've been mulling it over for ten years or so and not really reached a conclusion myself. Except that, like you, i could never "pass"

To add to the confusion: do you think that perhaps you're essentially Asexual, and are encountering all these issues because having sexual relationships is what you're "supposed" to do?

Also, have you tried to find a "genderqueer" discussion forum? Folks with that self-identity may best be able to relate to some of the points you bring up, more so than transgendered individuals.

Best of luck to you,

...dave

(in reply to BendingGender)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 9:32:39 PM   
BendingGender


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmaslave

I want to throw another $0.02 in.

I was very timid to say anything initially, and I still feel a small sense of fear. However, I did recognize your symptoms, and that is why I referred you to research Gender Disphorea.

I was diagnosed with having gender disphorea at 19. I am now 34 still struggling with some of the symptoms.

**********************

I also wanted to bring this to the table. This is my interpretation of what I have learned.

Some aboriginal cultures had tightly interlinked communities. The elders needed everyone to participate in the culture, or face the possibility of death for the village. To prevent those with mental gender issues from, meandering away, they were assigned “gender neutral” terms and identification and given prominent positions in the community. These Gender neutral people were often councilors and mediators, because of the ability to see the both perspective of all stories. This prominent position often gave them a different focus and a sense of responsibility for the community. That sense of purpose often surpassed their own sense of self, and this settled their mental state substantially. The felt apart of the community rather then outside of it.

In the 1800’s we were married and having children before we were 20. Today some are having children in there 40’s. Although many don’t ever question there gender identity, this child bearing time frame change has afforded some of us to truly think about our desired place in our society. The media has made everyone feel they must fit into tight parameters. (Gender, weight, size, etc.) Some of us don’t buy into those parameters all that well.

Furthermore our western society doesn’t have any “mile markers” or “rites of passage” like some other cultures do. (I.e. Jewish Bat/Bar Mitzvah”. Societal pressures of the 1800’s, tended to force people not to linger on such thoughts, let alone reveal them. They tended to get herded down the gender path. With very little after thought.

Today we have a more liberal minded society. 

So what am I trying to say?


I think there are many others out there like you.
You may not be a typical Westerner, but I think you are far from abnormal.
Truly allow you self to explore this. Enjoy this, if you can. Because if this was 200 years ago, you would likely be called insane, or be labeled a Witch, and assaulted.
Continue doing your Out-reach, and Net-working.
At 22, there are far worse things that could be happening.



    And lastly, if you ever need to chat, I am here, or on hotmail or yahoo.




    Thank you for revealing so much of yourself in trying to help me make sense of what I've had going on in my mind. I'll be seeing my therapist next month. But you can bet that I'll continue to read and research, as well as seek out others who may offer new perspectives, new questions, new terms and suggestions... and perhaps even an answer or two along the way. I'm gathering information, writing down my thoughts as I happen to have them... and basically getting myself as well prepared to articulate everything to my therapist as I can.

    I think I might see about taking another poster's advice (thank you deeddlit!) and try giving the other side of the fence a shot for a week... a month. Whatever feels right. It may be just the sort of experience to ground me in one state of mind or another. And perhaps, if nothing more, it will show me yet a new perspective.

    Thank you for the invitiation to contact you away from the forums. I've emailed another who extended the same invitation. But I'm interested in knowing as much as I possibly can - and so I feel another voice may be the key to opening doors yet not even seen. Whether I'll like or agree with anything that I find beyond them is another matter. But it certainly can't hurt to have a peek.

    (in reply to enigmaslave)
    Profile   Post #: 30
    RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/16/2007 10:33:45 PM   
    BendingGender


    Posts: 176
    Joined: 1/15/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: petdave

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: BendingGender
    I'm left to question which came first ~ the chicken (rampant fantasies in which I possess alternative genitalia) or the egg (my complete distaste - and perhaps fear of - "traditional" sex).

    Thinking about sexually functioning as the opposite gender arouses me. Thinking about using my current genitalia for anything other than basic bodily functions makes me shudder with disgust.

    Have I conditioned myself, I wonder. Or do my fantasies reflect my genuine interests?


    i can certainly relate to that. i've spent a lot of time considering "issues" of gender and sexuality in myself, and have faced the same question of whether thoughts of transgenderism were "genuine", or a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side". Unfortunately, i've been mulling it over for ten years or so and not really reached a conclusion myself. Except that, like you, i could never "pass"

    To add to the confusion: do you think that perhaps you're essentially Asexual, and are encountering all these issues because having sexual relationships is what you're "supposed" to do?

    Also, have you tried to find a "genderqueer" discussion forum? Folks with that self-identity may best be able to relate to some of the points you bring up, more so than transgendered individuals.

    Best of luck to you,

    ...dave



    Hello and thank you dave. 

    I've begun to suspect that if I do discover that I identify as TG, rather than PG, thoughts of being "passable" will cease to matter. I would need to change and be myself at that juncture to find peace, to be whole.

    These issues of gender are not exactly new to me. But I've been dealing with anything but these thoughts to keep them all in the darkest corners of my mind. I've helped friends and family with every little concern that's cropped up. In keeping busy I never had to own up to how unhappy I had become. But everyone has a point at which they must move in another direction or cease to be.

    I'd been having anxiety attacks with a fair amount of frequency. And I could never explain what set my system off. I had no real phobias that could account for any of the times. My mother decided that she wasn't going to sit passively by. She urged me to see someone. And I have. The therapist told me quite a bit... things I knew and things I did not. And in that office I felt secure enough to admit a number of things. I confessed that more often than not a smile on my face was an act. I confessed that while I made no plans, I'd thought often enough of my own death. And I informed her that when I whenever I was at my lowest I'd go to bed crying, while a large part of me hoped it would be the last time.

    When I left my therapist's office I didn't have any answers. I didn't feel any more enlightened. But talking had helped. I felt a bit lighter. I'd lived inside my head for nearly three years, doing a fairly decent job of hiding from everyone. Of keeping everyone at arm's length. My best friend has used my shoulder for support countless times. And though simply happy to help, I needed the distraction. In all the years I've known her I'd never crumbled, never allowed for her to witness a moment of vulnerability. But there I was... handing over my guts to a perfect stranger. And it felt fantastic.

    It's interesting that you mention being the possibility of asexuality. That was one of my first reactions a long time ago. After finding out that I was more than just disinterested in "traditional sex" I thought perhaps I had a bad balance of hormones. Perhaps I had some sort of internal problem. Perhaps I was just mis-wired. But I examined what I felt and when I felt it. I was attracted to a good number of people. I liked spending time with both genders. I wanted to be physically close to both genders when attracted to them. But when it came to sex... I knew what felt right... what felt fun. And it wasn't what would be expected of me as I am now.

    I looked up the term "genderqueer" and it seems to fit what I've been feeling rather well. Better than just about any other term I've encountered thus far to be honest. Whether or not I am remains to be seen. But I can do harm in researching that avenue. I'll seek out a forum or two of that nature. And thank you for suggesting it.

    Hopefully in confronting all of these issues and trying to learn more I hope to illuminate my path through experience and a deeper understanding.

    (in reply to petdave)
    Profile   Post #: 31
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