RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (Full Version)

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krikket -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 7:45:10 AM)

i just moved out of a rented condo where no smoking inside was allowed.  Yes i was miserable, but there were too many reasons to go into here, and i didn't have any other option at the time.  There were 3 advantages, however.  First, my smoking went waaaay down..lol, but i smoked outside during hurricanes (not a bad one), a couple of blizzards, hot and humid, etc.  Second, it sure saved me money, and third -- i actually got my entire deposit back, a first for me, since the walls, windows and air were clean.

About a month ago i moved into another apartment where i am allowed to smoke.  There  are disadvantages: first, my smoking has increased, second it's costing me more money..lol.. and third, because it's not in a good part of town i'm now dealing with rats outside and mice inside, very few neighbors who speak English and the crime rate is higher here. 

Would i go back to the old place? i honestly don't know, but i doubt it.  i had a killer commute (3 hours each way), extremely poor public transportation, and i was damned lonely.

Having said all of that, i'm careful when and where i smoke.  However, just by smoking in my home, my sister-in-law "can't" come over (not necessarily a bad thing..lol) because the smoke is in the air, whether i smoke when she's around or not.  i don't even smoke outside at the bus stop unless i have the room to move away from others waiting.  Yes there are those who aren't careful, who don't care, but the actions of a few haved damned the rest of us as undesirables and sometimes as criminals.  Perfect strangers think they have the right to rush up and lecture me about my "habit", but never once has someone approached my girl friend who's morbidly obese about her "habit".  i don't know what the answers are, but i do resent it when people approach me like that. 

<pushing my soapbox back into it's corner..thanks for the opportunity to rant..lol>






quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Freedom us usually given away. First other people's soon enough yours.

This was the latest new frontier for the anti-smoker crowd. In Seattle soon landlords will make entire apartment buildings non-smoking 
quote:

Spurred on by nonsmoking tenants and public-health leaders, more private landlords are considering restricting smoking inside their rental units. And local public-housing agencies are also looking at banning smoking in the units of some buildings Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003526616_smoking16m.html


But its "just smokers".

We are only at the beginning of other frontiers. Fat and fat people are next on the list. We not only surrender to, but support laws restricting certain types of fat. In the UK there is no outcry for prohibiting ads for fattening products. Hell, on this site there were advocates for relinquishing access to information rationalizing it wasn't a surrendering of freedom. We are at the point where the anti-fat group is where the anti-smoking group was in the '60s. It will be faster this time, because they have a path to follow. Start with "protecting the children".

Who know, in 10 or 15 years there will be special "donut zones" in the workplace.




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 8:00:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


You didn't see the no-smoking sign in a non-smoking establishment - the ones plastered all over the show with a cigarette and a line through? Why would there be an ash tray in a non-smoking establishment - have you brought your own or what?


I didn't offhand, see the precondition that it *WAS* in fact a non-smoking establishment.

I've been discussing the general case throughout the thread. I regret any confusion I may have caused.



Fair enough, no problem.




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 8:05:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

to NO ONE  in particular

Sheesh... not my fault the 'reply' just follows the former post.  Maybe a cigarette would calm some people down a bit...



As calm as a desert night, here [;)] No problems, simply an exchange of opinions.




Zensee -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 10:50:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
adaddysgirl, I have to agree with meatcleaver here... you're banging your head on a block wall. The best you are going to get is ignorant arguements based on personal predjudices.


Like the prejudice induced by addiction to nicotine doesn't provoke irrational, insulting ourbursts? Pot / kettle / black and all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
...they have banned same-sex marriage in many states and now they are banning smoking...


So tobabcco control advocates are gay bashers too? How do you spell d.e.m.o.n.i.s.a.t.i.o.n.?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Every person posting on this thread are assumed to be of the legal age of consent, are presumed to be able to
make life decisions that affect themselves and those around them...


Why should children have to be at the age of consent to ask their parents to butt out? Why should they even have to ask? Are they your possessions or your responsibility? Why would responsible parents  unnecessarily expose their kids to something which was likely to have an adverse effect on their health, something with no benefit for the kids or for anyone? That is neglect. Or are you going to tell me that smoking is necessary?


Smoking is, due to a historical accident, the only form of assault which is legal. Do anything else assaultive and it's a trip to the cop shop. Your "right" to make personal choices ends when those choices injure others. And you don't have to kill or cause a chronic illness to injure someone.

Societies have always set standards of behaviour, it is necessary for us to function in large groups. Sometimes they are arbitrary and unfair (you must believe in THIS god - don't be a homosexual) and sometimes they are necessary (don't be murdering each other and stealing stuff).

Fargle, it sounds like you are advocating vigilantism. I prefer rule of law. Less chaos that way.


Z.






Lorelei115 -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 10:54:00 AM)

Is this thread STILL going on? *sigh*




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 11:54:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
...they have banned same-sex marriage in many states and now they are banning smoking...


So tobabcco control advocates are gay bashers too? How do you spell d.e.m.o.n.i.s.a.t.i.o.n.?

Z.



lol, I missed this bit earlier. I would bet my last penny that those advocating smoking restrictions are far more predisposed to support gay rights than those saying I'll smoke in front of whomever I like.




farglebargle -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 11:56:03 AM)

quote:


lol, I missed this bit earlier. I would bet my last penny that those advocating smoking restrictions are far more predisposed to support gay rights than those saying I'll smoke in front of whomever I like.



How much money did I win? I'm a big fan of sodomy.





missturbation -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:01:35 PM)

Why would responsible parents  unnecessarily expose their kids to something which was likely to have an adverse effect on their health, something with no benefit for the kids or for anyone? That is neglect. Or are you going to tell me that smoking is necessary?

I'm a responsible parent and i shock horror smoke in front of my daughter. No its not neglect, bad choice of words there i think.
Smoking is necessary to me and a lot more healthy for people around me than if i dont. Ever seen excorcist where the head spins 360 degrees, well thats me without a cig [:D]




ShiftedJewel -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:02:27 PM)

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
...they have banned same-sex marriage in many states and now they are banning smoking...



So tobabcco control advocates are gay bashers too? How do you spell d.e.m.o.n.i.s.a.t.i.o.n.?


They.... the goverment.... get a clue here. And don't tell me they AREN'T gay bashers.... at least a big enough number of them to write discrimination into the state constitutions.
 
I'm outta, I've discovered, through testing and life experience, that the longer you hang around the ignorant the better the chance you'll catch it.
 
Jewel
 
PS...
 
quote:

I would bet my last penny that those advocating smoking restrictions are far more predisposed to support gay rights than those saying I'll smoke in front of whomever I like. 


Guess again... I'm a strong supporter for same sex marriage.
 
Have a nice day.




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:02:51 PM)

Take your pick from the top shelf..........there's a cuddly duck, a chocolate flavoured penguin and a blow up malaysian female doll.

Your prize, your call.





Zensee -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:06:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm a big fan of sodomy.



*tries to think of the best wording for a "bumming a fag" joke*

Z




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:07:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Guess again... I'm a strong supporter for same sex marriage.
 
Have a nice day.


Yeah, well I'm stronger [;)]

Is this where I have to say some old bollocks that doesn't mean anything?........oh go on then, HAVE A NICE DAY!





NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 12:08:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm a big fan of sodomy.



*tries to think of the best wording for a "bumming a fag" joke*

Z



[:D] You're wasted round here, Zensee.




LadyEllen -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 1:05:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorelei115

Is this thread STILL going on? *sigh*


Yeah - but it makes a change from bashing fat people, pro-dommes and crossdressers at least?

Crikey I need a cigarette

E





LadyEllen -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 1:07:19 PM)

Wondering how many of the people who dislike tobacco smoking, find it perfectly OK to use tobacco for rolling a spliff?
E




ScooterTrash -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 1:21:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Guess again... I'm a strong supporter for same sex marriage.
 
Have a nice day.

Yeah, well I'm stronger [;)]

Is this where I have to say some old bollocks that doesn't mean anything?........oh go on then, HAVE A NICE DAY!



Stronger? I highly doubt that NG, we have a gay daughter which we stand behind 100%, odds are we are more supportive than you will ever be. We better keep this apples to apples...these sidetracks are making people say things they don't mean.
 
As to your earlier discussion about those smoking in a non-smoking "area", I haven't seen anyone saying they would purposely go against the "rule", but the issue is that if things continue the way they are, there won't be any allowed areas. Ohio (the whole state) just passed a law where no smoking is alowed in "ANY" public building, which includes open air patios connected to restaurants (even by just a door) and a building is supposedly any structure that has a roof. Luckily the law is written so lame that at this point it can't be enforced, but soon enough they finalize it and enforce it. That is more the issue, ridiculous laws and outright banning....there appears to be no even ground or compromise on this topic, so what certainly WILL happen, is that the new lawbreaker, the new criminal, will be someone who is doing the same thing they were doing legally last week....that's the scary part. 




NorthernGent -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 1:34:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

Stronger? I highly doubt that NG, we have a gay daughter which we stand behind 100%, odds are we are more supportive than you will ever be. We better keep this apples to apples...these sidetracks are making people say things they don't mean.
 
That was actually meant to be humour. International boundaries acting as a barrier etc. How can anyone be "stronger" - you either support gay rights or you don't, I thought this would be obvious and taken as a joke.
 
As for sidetracks, I've been consistent all along - the thread had died a death when I made a comment to Zensee, the thread was over and I wasn't being serious (no one had commented for ages). Now you decide to have an input which is fine by me but if you look back through my posts you'll see I have not been the one "sidetracking the thread".

 As to your earlier discussion about those smoking in a non-smoking "area", I haven't seen anyone saying they would purposely go against the "rule

Scooter, my point of view right through this thread is my right not to have smoke in my face in a non-smoking establishment. Feel free to take another read and you'll see this. I don't care what you or anyone else does in your home or in a smoking establishment.
 
I've made the point that there is strong evidence out there (British Medical Association for one) suggesting you will knock years off your kids' life if you smoke around them. Your call though - providing it's not in my face I'm only offering an opinion, take it or leave it.
 




juliaoceania -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 3:03:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
...they have banned same-sex marriage in many states and now they are banning smoking...


So tobabcco control advocates are gay bashers too? How do you spell d.e.m.o.n.i.s.a.t.i.o.n.?

Z.



lol, I missed this bit earlier. I would bet my last penny that those advocating smoking restrictions are far more predisposed to support gay rights than those saying I'll smoke in front of whomever I like.



I am a supporter of Gay marriage and full rights for Gay people to be treated under the law of the land like anyone else.




farglebargle -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 4:43:19 PM)

quote:

Wondering how many of the people who dislike tobacco smoking, find it perfectly OK to use tobacco for rolling a spliff?


EWWWW! What a fucking waste of good weed.

I never understood that particular style, myself.

So, There's 1 vote from a Pro-Smokers-Rights, Non-Tobacco Smoker, who dislikes smoked tobacco, and who doesn't think it's ok to dilute perfectly fine marijuana with tobacco.





Sinergy -> RE: Smoking Ban - When is it too much? (1/20/2007 5:50:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


You didn't see the no-smoking sign in a non-smoking establishment - the ones plastered all over the show with a cigarette and a line through? Why would there be an ash tray in a non-smoking establishment - have you brought your own or what?


I didn't offhand, see the precondition that it *WAS* in fact a non-smoking establishment.

I've been discussing the general case throughout the thread. I regret any confusion I may have caused.




I just assumed it was a non smoking establishment.  But then I live in California and it is illegal to smoke in the workplace.  People work in bars.  People work in restaurants.  People work on the docks.  Whatever.

So do everybody a favor and abstain from smoking in the workplace.

Or go somewhere else.

Sinergy




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