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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/19/2007 10:55:49 PM

mnottertail

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NO, Mike that is tension, to expand--to push the envelope..to do extraordinary things in an extra ordinary life...

Dig it?

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/19/2007 10:57:25 PM

SusanofO

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It is an interesting theory, and what it states about over-familiarity personally resonates with me - and I couldn't agree more with the snippet you inserted from the article, cloudboy. In places like Europe, I have read that people accept a desire for "new and different" as a "given" and don't generally get bent out of shape when married or long-time co-habitors, and-or lovers do things like have Mistresses or submissives, or see other men or have Masters or male submissives, etc.

Of course in America, some seem to need to moralize everything we do (or not), and not just accept some things as almost inevitable, or at least a not un-expected outcome of circumstances.

Maybe needing to connect with an opposite or at least someone different from ourselves in many ways, both sexually and psychologically, is the reason some folks find a nice "home" in bdsm - and maybe there are some who just sort of lean, for maybe biological reasons even, in that direction. I think it's very interesting to contemplate. The phrase "Opposites attract" probably isn't a well-worn statement for no reason at all.

This isn't to say I don't need to find some kind of "common ground" (interests perhaps, or other things, like life experiences, maybe) with someone to be attracted to them, but I admit the new and different and even completely opposite (for me) can be far more attractive than the overly familiar.

In my case, it was being rejected out-right by someone I was married to that made me seek out (finally, after 10 years) something, and someone, very, very different than I had previously experienced. But because of that rejection (of me), my husband and I had become more or less "room-mates" and not always room-mates that were terribly fond of one another, either. After awhile, I realized I didn't care that much that he'd rejected me, really. Because I simply didn't have a desire to pair up with him in that way (sexually) any longer - at all. My desire for him had evaporated, and I do think it was partly due to "over-familiarity" as well as his overt rejection.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/19/2007 11:37:15 PM >

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/19/2007 11:10:33 PM

losttreasure

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From the review, I believe Esther Perel has some interesting views that are definitely worth considering. However, I do feel that there are some fundamental problems with her theories and I think you've misapplied them somewhat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Arguably BDSM comports with the above because it operates as a polarity --- keeping lovers as others ---- top from bottom --- Dom from Sub ---- maintaining a more fresh, more easily revived sexual connection. Its also a kind of triumph of discomfort (bondage, beatings, teasing, exacting, testing, probing) that dovetails nicely into sensual union.

There's no arguing that some people are drawn to and sexually excited by things that are new or different ... but not everyone; there are those for whom comfort and familiarity are the ideal. The desire for a partnership where two are capable of operating as a single unit is not uncommon... and this includes those that are drawn to BDSM. How many times do we hear dominants express a desire for transparency? And what of those who wish their submissive to be so entuned to them that they can anticipate their owner's needs and desires?

It is simply inaccurate to claim that BDSM inherently creates distance between practitioners... that those who participate in WIIWD deliberately keep our partners distant and use detached kink as a method of keeping sensuality fresh and exciting.

It seems that your comparing top/bottom and dom/sub to the distance referred to by Ms. Perel, also fails to recognize the basic polar nature of the heterosexual male/female relationship. While not the sole makeup of those who engage in BDMS, they do comprise a large portion if not majority.

I don't disagree that there are components of Ms. Perel's theories that seem to explain the attraction of BDSM to some individuals ... but I don't believe any more or less so than what would apply to those for whom a "vanilla" relationship is the standard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Anyway, this article gives one food for thought. I do agree that over familiarity is an anti-aphrodisiac, marriage can devolve into the banal, and that passion --- whose kissing cousin is "the thrill" --- spring from something unfamiliar, new, or rediscovered.

While the axiom, "familiarity breeds contempt" does have application to all relationships, I think that it applies more to those within the relationship rather than the relationship itself. In other words, it is the husband and wife themselves who make or allow their marital relationship to go stale ... not the fact that they are married.

As LA has pointed out, there are many who enjoy continued and increasing passion in their marriage. To be honest, any good relationship takes work. Some are willing to put that effort in, and some are not.

Don't misunderstand, I do think the author of the book has a valid point regarding "distance"; I just happen to feel that in relationships that suffer from "banality", it is because those within the relationship don't foster that distance. As a point in reference to another thread going on right now, I believe that romance is one of those ways to keep a relationship new and fresh.

Edited to add: One of the issues that I feel contributes to the reduction of passion in relationships is when partners stop pursuing each other. We've all heard references to the "thrill of the chase" and I'm sure most have experienced the feeling of disappointment when relationships evolve past it. But the chase refers not to something solely because it is new and different... it exists because there is distance. The chase ends when that distance is closed and we feel confident enough in our "new" relationship to stop doing those things to attract our partner. But who said we have to stop chasing?

As a side note and a whole different thread topic... I believe that often times the drama that women are accused of creating in a relationship directly relates to the desire to "shake up" the confidence in her mate. In doing so, I think they are hoping to inspire their partner to resume the chase.

Another issue that I believe is responsible for much of the lack of sexual interest in long-term heterosexual relationships deals directly with the "androgynous" roles that men and women adopt. Our difference in genders is part of that distance... part of the mystery in a relationship. I think that if, instead of trying to blend those roles, people made a point of celebrating and appreciating those differences, they might find there's excitement enough to last a lifetime.

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 1/19/2007 11:40:07 PM >

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/19/2007 11:14:11 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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I agree with the article in that I think nature tries to get us to pair up with different gene combinations to make more interesting new combinations.
While people may tend to be attracted to those who are different, sexual attraction is such a loaded subject (wrapped up in all our fears and indoctrinations), that people frequently try and avoid the difficulties in pairing up that way, and so go with the familiar. In support of the familiar, I do think longetivity is better sustained between people who are more alike.
I don't know how this ties in with my D/s side, because I tend to attract dominant personalities in real life, and I do not do well with personalities too similar to mine.   M

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 2:15:57 AM

SusanofO

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Well. Mystery and a little danger (or a lot of mystery and danger, maybe), and more open emotions flowing can be very exciting, without a doubt. If it wasn't, then what are we all doing here on this site anyway? I mean why would people be interested in bdsm?

Not that these things can't be found in "vanilla" relationships (I think they can. For one thing, my belief has always been that sex is mostly inside the head - at least that is where it is revved up or down to a delicious crescendo or diminuendo, so to speak, having taken its initial "objective" cues from whatever the other person looks and acts and sounds like, and the surroundings, and the circumstances, etc.), and then building, and wrapping and meshing it, together, into something more meaningful and powerful and beautiful - whether for a single encounter, or for years in an LTR relationship.

But I think encounters and relationships can really be taken to a wonderful new high in a bdsm context. It's as if things go from a normal coloration on a palette to a "deep intensity" (I am a fan of intensity, too). Bdsm activity and relationships seem to me to have an innate capacity to be ... as if you're in a room that was sound-proof and suddenly someone introduces a sound system that pierces through all that in an instant, sometimes (wow)..or sometimes a bit more slowly. Hey - it's all good. I think it's just more intimate. And to me, more intimate equals well - very more satisfying - emotionally and physically. That's why I am interested in this (bdsm) at all (any biological or genetic explanation that could apply, aside).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/20/2007 2:26:04 AM >

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 6:54:25 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

It is simply inaccurate to claim that BDSM inherently creates distance between practitioners... that those who participate in WIIWD deliberately keep our partners distant and use detached kink as a method of keeping sensuality fresh and exciting.

It seems that your comparing top/bottom and dom/sub to the distance referred to by Ms. Perel, also fails to recognize the basic polar nature of the heterosexual male/female relationship. While not the sole makeup of those who engage in BDMS, they do comprise a large portion if not majority.

Well, BDSM may not require distance and unfamiliarity and it can certainly thrive in closeness, but it does require "otherness" from its participants as opposed to "sameness." It also requires a basic unequalness and an element of risk or danger as well. Otherness, inequality, and risk/danger provide a gap for individuals to reach across, and do within the context of this article and thread make for sexual tension.

The male-female divide, which you allude to, gets broken down in marriage over time. Individuals can morph into a cojoined, complimentary unit. Managing money, dividing chores, visiting in laws, raising kids, sharing a bed every night, sharing a similar routine every day ---- breeds more a satisfying partnership than it does sexual tension.

Oddly, the implication is, if you want to get closer --- split up for a while and have an argument.

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 6:59:00 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

i have a question along the lines of this subject

would it be considered "sexual tension" if a sub is not seeking a sexual relationship, but the Dominant is?

I'm with Stef, that's either incompatibility or plain Jane awkward. (Assuming the sub is not playing hard to get.)

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 8:48:41 AM

fairerthanshe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I'm a lib and if I got marooned on a desert island with right wing conservative...we probably would make it work about the same as if she shared my ideology or whether we shared the same ethnic or different make up.

Either we would soon be fucking up a storm or I'd eat well for a few days.

LOL...spewing coffee at the lap top...thank you for that image...BRILLIANT!!!

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 9:16:33 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

I agree with the article in that I think nature tries to get us to pair up with different gene combinations to make more interesting new combinations.

M

M,

With regard to genetics, there is some evidence to suggest nature does not necessarily favour breeding between genetically very different members of the same species.

For example, when a Chinese woman marries a European man the chances are relatively high that their blood groups may be incompatible, so that only the first child they conceive will be viable.

Also, the very high levels of cousin-marriage that used to be common among Jews resulted in remarkably few genetic abnormalities.

There are sound biological reasons for like attracting like. That is, a species of hunter-gatherers would have struggled to reproduce successfully without an in-built mechanism to signal an attraction to familiarity - attracting individuals with a different genetic make-up was not an option due to distance involved in pre-historic times.

In terms of genetics, like does still attract like. I would argue that an increase in inter-ethnic relationships is a result of cultural development and enlightenment rather than genetics.

Having said the above, genetics and biology is not my field (I have an interest). So, anyone who can shed some more light on this, feel free.

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RE: Sexual Tension - 1/20/2007 9:27:15 AM

gooddogbenji

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I haven't had unprovoked, random, whining and drama like this I went away.

GodDAMN it's good to be home!

Yours,

benji

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