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Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 5:55:15 AM   
XMidnightX


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		greetings everyone! i'm wondering what everyone does during sub drop? the reaction they have and then...how do they deal with it? sub drop is never a fun thing, and i think it would interesting to see how other people cope.


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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 6:03:23 AM   
arabiandancer


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline 		what is a sub drop?

(in reply to XMidnightX)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 6:32:38 AM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: arabiandancer

what is a sub drop?


good question and it seems the author of this post has left the building


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about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.

collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to arabiandancer)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 7:09:34 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		LA must be sleeping late, but she'll be along soon with the links to previous discussions on the subject.  But in the meantime, if you click on search up there in the right hand corner and put in sub drop, you'll get some info.

(in reply to mymasterssub69)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 7:30:50 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: arabiandancer

what is a sub drop?


It is a term used to describe the negative emotional state after being in subspace.  Subspace (in my understanding) is a body chemical high from engaging in BDSM play.  As the chemicals dissapate you come down off that high.  Depending on your thought process you can either go back to a typical emotional state or enter a somewhat depressive state.  It is a reaction to the dissapating chemicals and negative thoughts in my opinion.

I deal with it by taking care of my body so that I do not physically crash, i.e. eating and drinking something sweet.  In the days that follow, I try to keep my thoughts positive.  I focus on doing and thinking things that I enjoy and bring me pleasure.  I have only dropped once and that was when I first started playing and didn't really know how I needed to take care of me.  Because of the skills that I learned, I did not drop after my last play even though I was in an extremely negative headspace during the play.

My suggestion is to learn how your body and mind reacts and then learn skills to keep them in the state you want them to be in.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 7:58:24 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I would like to add to kyra's post the following thougths

Yes.. I agree that sub drop is essential a withdrawal... I agree cause I taught her that lol.  I feel that it is a chemcial withdraw because the nature of the scene... being postive or negative... will not eliminate a drop.  Meaning just because you had a positive scene doesn't mean you can't drop... actually you just might be more likely to drop from a positive intense scene that a negative scene.

However,  besides the chemical drop... there can be an emotional drop.  emotional drops are very much tied to the feelings a person has from a scene.  Thoughts and feelings that are negative towards the scene, the partner(s) and/or oneself.  Such type of drops are not to be unexpected... but if they are a reoccuring issue... I would seriously reconsider ones choices with engaging in the play.

The chemical drops will not last long.. particularly if you take the proper steps before and after play.  It doesn't take long for the body to adjust from it's own chemcials.  We not talking days here or even hours... you can usually count it on the minute hand sometimes maybe more than an hour.  However, when it lasts longer.. then you can rest assure that you have an emotional drop as well.

This is much the same for Subspace or SubHigh...  a chemical induced high that will clear up soon after play is over... but the hours and days that follow that people say are zone or high is more an emotional high.  Our emotions do affect our body chemistry.. be they positive emotions or negative.  But the emotions triggers a different cocktail than one gets from the scene induced cocktail.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 8:14:54 AM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

However,  besides the chemical drop... there can be an emotional drop.  emotional drops are very much tied to the feelings a person has from a scene. 


Or for another person, often referred to as pining.  :(

MaryT

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 8:42:40 AM   
mystiquenz


Posts: 330
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		For me, to avoid negative subdrop, is having the Dominant stay in touch a few days after the play.  For example, if you have flown high, with Him, (and no drugs), and he leaves or you leave, the days that follow, follow up visits if He is not too far away,  regular communication, and with long bubble baths, good sleep, good diet, a mixture of chocolate and bananas help, but we are no doubt all very different. 
 
As kyra and KOM have both written, positive thoughts are very important.  Anxiety and fear are the demons. 
 
I think pining is a little bit different, but then that is my experience, and we are A/all different.  Not only do subs drop but so too can Dominants.  So it is important  for each to take responsibility for each other and themselves.  It is usually a partnership, and you don't need to go it "alone". 
 
If you are going it "alone", then i would be questioning whether the dominant one, has exercised his responsibility well, and would suggest not.  Either that or you have not negotiated with him properly and part of your negotiations should be to follow through following the meeting/play. 




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blessings
~mystique~

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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 8:50:24 AM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		My thanks to you and kyra for discussing this, KnightofMists.  I had not thought about my reaction as also being chemical since my "subdrop" usually occured two or three days after an enjoyable experience.  Looking back I can note that I was riding on a high for a couple of days so a chemical drop could have something to do with it.

There seemed no reason for me to burst into tears as I was not depressed or thinking negatively ~ it would just happen, it seemed to me, completely out of the blue.  At first I thought it was guilt for enjoying something out of the norm (I was brand new to the experience at the time).  Luckily, someone in my local group brought it up for discussion and I felt so much better knowing this was normal for other submissives in the group.

I don't suppose there is a dominant drop? <smiles>  I mean, sometimes the experience is overwhelming and I don't know where to go with all the emotions it brings so I have to step away and be a bit of blithering idiot until I am back under control.  Good emotions, too.  Fulfillment.  Not sure if dominants can be overwhelmed as well.

Best wishes,
Christine









(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 8:56:49 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin

I don't suppose there is a dominant drop? <smiles>  I mean, sometimes the experience is overwhelming and I don't know where to go with all the emotions it brings so I have to step away and be a bit of blithering idiot until I am back under control.  Good emotions, too.  Fulfillment.  Not sure if dominants can be overwhelmed as well.



Dominants are not super human or some other sort of human species.. they will have drops as well.

I have had several occassion after an intense scene that I get an intense headache.... once I started to drink alot of water before during and after the scene.. this problem seem to go away..

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 9:13:52 AM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		I am taking away some good suggestions.  Thanks, mystiquenz.  Your's and kyra's posts have been helpful.

My experiences have been with friends I trust and have known for some time, one dominant couple and two men.  It was not a relationship beyond the friendship, so I suppose I did not want to burden any one of them with something I initially thought was a high-drama emotional response from my overactive imagination.  Our negotiations were more along the lines of "Call me about lunch next week." <smiles>  At first, I was not even aware of what a "subdrop" was and did not worry about it until about the third time it happened (it has not happened with every experience).  That is when I did something like Knight of Mists suggested, and stepped back from playing at all.  The hope is that I can experience a deeper submission with someone who is not a casual play partner ~ perhaps that will make a difference.

"Negotiating" seems like creating a business deal although I assuredly do that in a casual way....but probably not to the extent that I should.  I draw away from any attempt at "aftercare."  I do not think I am wired for it and typically just want to go for a smoke until I have calmed down and am back in control.  A personal issue with not wanting to be seen as a drama queen. <laughs>  But no doubt a control issue as well, because when I see D/s couples engaging in aftercare I see it as initmate and sweet not high drama.

Thanks again for your input.

Best wishes,
Christine

(in reply to mystiquenz)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 9:18:51 AM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for your reply, Knight of Mists.  As the submissive in a scene, I always feel like I am getting all the good stuff....feel a little selfish about that actually. <smiles>

Best wishes,
Christine

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 10:10:13 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
My suggestion is to learn how your body and mind reacts and then learn skills to keep them in the state you want them to be in.



Awesome advice, kyra.  In my situation, I am equally responsible for keeping myself in good order for my Master.  I have experienced terribly intense "sub drop" before, yet I feel I am better to him if I can manage my own way out, rather than insisting or expecting him to handle it. The thing is, he is always available and helps me through, but if I'm not careful, I can reach a state of mind where if he doesn't do it my way, then it's not good enough.  I think in the past, my "sub drop" consisted of me becoming defiant (I don't recommend that).  But I know myself well enough now, to know I am reacting, and to keep myself calm and stable until I can rationally talk to him about my feelings (I achieve this about 95% of the time - the other 5% never works out well for me, lol).

In my way of thinking, I would rather he use me quickly and leave me, trusting me to recover for him, than to determine the day is just too taxing with other burdens, so he won't use me at all, as he doesn't have time to sit with me until I'm "whole" again.  I am capable of coming back on my own, and I am glad to provide this for him, although it was not an easy feat to achieve.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 10:13:48 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin
I don't suppose there is a dominant drop? <smiles>  I mean, sometimes the experience is overwhelming and I don't know where to go with all the emotions it brings so I have to step away and be a bit of blithering idiot until I am back under control.  Good emotions, too.  Fulfillment.  Not sure if dominants can be overwhelmed as well.


Dear Christine-
 
Actually, I heard referances to 'top-drop' as early as '86 or so, when I first made the scene- I didn't hear of 'sub-drop' untill about ten years later.
 
I think anyone who has had an intense, fuffilling interaction is likely to crash when one returns to one's everyday life.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 10:52:25 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin

Thank you for your reply, Knight of Mists.  As the submissive in a scene, I always feel like I am getting all the good stuff....feel a little selfish about that actually. <smiles>

Best wishes,
Christine


Your Welcome.. and um well if I am ever in the Penn area... maybe you can share some of that good stuff *w* and that way you will not feel so selfish.

oh it taxing to be so giving... I must be careful of Top-drop here

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 11:21:28 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Thankyou everyone for this very informative dialogue.
Now I understand a little more I am becoming more sure of my own needs.
And more secure in my ability to understand the needs of my submissives. Of course it takes time to learn to trust and communicate well.
I am always sorry to hear of submissives who don't have a full relationship with their Dom/mes.
I know that some don't want the full thing but I really think that both parties are missing out on something very prcious indeed.
To be submissive for a short while only and then to have to go back to being 'independent' must be terribly difficult.
It's very important to me to have daily contact with a submissive I am involved with even if it is only via text.
D/s is part of my everyday life and as much BDSM as I can possibly manage. This Domme definietly misses her sub/s. And I sure as hell can be overwhelmed.
Don't feel selfish feylin a good top gets just as much pleasure out of topping as you do out of bottoming. But as you suggest you would both probably get far more pleasure from a D/s relationship. However not all good tops make good Dom/mes. And not all good bottoms make good submissives. It sounds as if you might though.

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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 11:23:31 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		For me, subdrop seems more related to withdrawing from my Master, rather than a withdrawal from the chemical high.  When I experience a very intense and intimate connection with him, I will go into a somewhat depressive and insecure state after, and I long for the intensity of that connection once again.  It is almost a feeling of grief, a sense of lonliness.  I try to remember that intimacy and connection expands and contracts, that it breathes,  and that we are constantly moving apart, and moving together.  I have yet figured out exactly how to help myself through this. 

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 11:27:28 AM   
completenz


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		hi
We both had an intense drop after our last 'touch' (we dont use the term 'play'- it comes nowhere near describing what we both experience) He does not drop every time and not in the same way I do. The aftercare He gives me makes mine easier to deal with. He always makes sure I drink a juice before I drift off to sleep in His arms listening to His voice. Lotsa hugs and chocolate the next day for both of us as we wonder at the magic!!
c

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 11:43:53 AM   
mystiquenz


Posts: 330
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The hope is that I can experience a deeper submission with someone who is not a casual play partner ~ perhaps that will make a difference.

"Negotiating" seems like creating a business deal although I assuredly do that in a casual way....but probably not to the extent that I should.  I draw away from any attempt at "aftercare."  I do not think I am wired for it and typically just want to go for a smoke until I have calmed down and am back in control.  A personal issue with not wanting to be seen as a drama queen. <laughs>  But no doubt a control issue as well, because when I see D/s couples engaging in aftercare I see it as initmate and sweet not high drama.


Just in reply to those comments. 

Whether you just bottom for a scene, you can still have subdrop.  My experiences is that if you play casually, you are in more control of the outcome, say at a play party.  Where I have experienced difficulty with sub drop is where, I have bottomed in a private location, at first i did not negotiate the need for after care.  It is not "being a drama queen", the way i view it, is being responsible for the person to bring them back down to a good level.  But then on top of that, you have to take responsibility for yourself as well.

Different situations, have different outcomes.  Just because you have sub drop with one Dominant after play, doesn't mean you will have it with another, it depends on where your mindspace is., or where it went.  *smiles* Again, it is different for each person, and you cannot say, it will be the same, each time.   I do not know if people who are in more commited relationships, suffer from subdrop as opposed to a good scene on a casual basis, if the connection is there, and if they are open, i would suggest to you that they probably do. 

Drama queens and business proposals ... thinks ... no i don't associate sub drop with being a drama queen, for i am not one of those, and business proposals, well yes, this lifestyle is about contracts, negotiations as to play, contracts between Doms and submissives, Masters and slaves (or Dommes and Mistresses) depending on your dynamic.  Others do not do contracts, again, it is very indivdualistic. 

I wish you well on your journey ... just take care of yourself, and enjoy the moments, as they present!!






_____________________________

blessings
~mystique~

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Good ol' sub drop - 1/21/2007 12:25:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Just for posterity:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_743958/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#744221
sub drop please help

http://www.collarchat.com/m_649399/mpage_1/key_subdrop/tm.htm#649697
Coming down from the glorious heights

http://www.collarchat.com/m_522013/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#522021
sub drop, definitions, causes, cures, and prevention

http://www.collarchat.com/m_512884/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#513003
Your insight is needed please

http://www.collarchat.com/m_487853/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#488083
sub drop (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_460639/mpage_1/key_subdrop/tm.htm#460834
regaining balance after deep subspace

http://www.collarchat.com/m_202168/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#202459
sub-drop what is it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_345419/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#345462
highs and lows

http://www.collarchat.com/m_398653/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#399164
subdrop or what?

Is it drop or am I kidding myself?

Depression after a scene

Sub Drop

Nervous sub seeks reassurance

sleeping...


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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to XMidnightX)
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