Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (Full Version)

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SirDiscipliner69 -> Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 3:50:59 AM)

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?

Ross




Coupleseeking321 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 5:12:21 PM)

I'm a Southern Baptist my friend, everything is a sin. Personally though no, I'm sure that God isn't the uptight prick religous leaders make him out to be. I think he wants people to enjoy the bodies he gave them, to treat them with respect love and care but for his sake have a little fun with em.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 6:10:23 PM)

quote:

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin
Absolutely not!    Unless the consent and mentally competent adult parts are absent in the dynamic.
quote:

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM? 
I'm not terribly overt about my religion or my D/s involvement for that matter...  I suppose I'm overt if I'm talking about my belief in God or in church, and I'm overt about BDSM (more D/s for me) when on collarme, at a munch or play party.
quote:

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?
Absolutely not, but than again I take the bible writings with a grain of salt, and find frankly that God/the writers didn't foresee the education of all people, especially women coming to factor into how the world works.    M



bearincuffs -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 6:41:34 PM)

Being Pagan/Wiccan, I have yet to experience any conflict with my beliefs and being the property of my Master. I use both terms as I don't follow one believe but a mixture of both.
   
I went through my own spiritual renewal several years ago before beginning this journey into BDSM and in someways, my spirituality has been beneficial in this. I'm strictly a solitary practioner and have no desire to become overly "religious" either. I take what makes sense to me a nd discard the rest!
 
No, I don't find the two diametrically opposed in my opnion. The first part to The Creed states "Do what ye will, harm none." and is the basis which Wiccans follow as their Golden Rule so to speak. This also applies to being Master's slave.  He cherishes and cares for His slave. Master also teaches and guides His slave to be what Master wants but also guides His slave to be greater then what slave is.



justheather -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 6:43:45 PM)

My participation in a D/s, BDSM relationship is a form of spiritual practice.



Lashra -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not (1/23/2007 7:01:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?

Ross



I believe in the Earth Goddess and she doesn't care that I particpate in BDSM. My Goddess isn't too uptight, like alot of the other Gods. I can do what I want to do as long as I do not hurt anyone doing it, that including myself.

I have to say I talk to her alot, even more these days and ask her to protect me and mine from the nutty followers of a couple of other well known Gods.

~Lashra





slavegirljoy -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/23/2007 10:23:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?


No, i do not consider my participation in BDSM to be a sin.

quote:


Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?


Yes, i am a Christian and i do willingly participate in BDSM.

quote:


Do you find the two diametrically opposed?



No, i don't.  While i know i have sinned and there are certain sexual acts that are sinful, being a slave and being subjected to the Bondage and Discipline of my Master is not and neither is the fact that He is a Sadist and i am a Masochist. 

The Bible has many passages that speak directly about Masters and slaves and the disciplining of slaves by their Masters.  It isn't sinful.  Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery or to a Master's right to punish his slaves.

Here are some of the many Bible passages which directly sanction and regulate slavery.

Passages from the New Testament (KJV):

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
Other passages instructing slaves and slave owners in proper behavior are:

Colossians 4:1: "Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven."

1 Timothy 6:1-3 "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"

1 Corinthians 12:13: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Passages from the Old Testament (KJV): 

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Exodus 20:10: "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

References used:
Rabbi M.J. Raphall, "The Bible View of Slavery," delivered in New York City, 1861.
M.J, Raphall, "The Bible view of slavery," 1861-JAN-15

slave joy
Owned property of Master David



slave621670337 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 1:24:55 AM)

no its no sin to take part in acts of bdsm .



twicehappy -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:47:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?


I am druid by birth, i am also dedicated to Ormigunda, Our Lady of the Beasts, physical relations, especially ones that produce strong spiritual and emotional feelings are considered to be one of her greatest gifts.
 
So a sin, never, rather a celebration of life, one that of itself renews and refreshes the soul.
 
I do not consider myself overtly religious yet i live my life everyday within the precepts i was raised in.
 
BDSM is in no way conflicts with my religion. I live very much in my skin as i believe was intended for man and beast alike.
 
Why give us these bodies and brains capable of so much pleasure then make that pleasure a sin?
 
To the OP you have posted a lot of religious questions and polls of late; are you having a crisis of faith?



LadyEllen -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 5:09:39 AM)

My religion, (Witegan Asatru), akin with Buddhism, calls ultimately for the abandonment of self, which would tend towards abdicating onesself from any form of sexuality; but this is not a path for which all are ready, including me. Its not that sexuality is evil or sinful, merely that in fulfilling the ultimate goal, we must become selfless and see others as souls like us, not sexual partners.

However, my religion in general (general Asatru) also calls for us to be human beings, for it is to be human that we are here in the first place, and part of being human is sexuality. There would be no people to fulfill the role for which we exist, or indeed take the ultimate path, were we all to deny our humanity and sexuality. In fact it is something of a duty for us to be sexual, after our wont. Therefore neither is sexuality sinful at this more basic level.

E



BDSM05478 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 5:30:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?
quote:



Nope, don't view what I do as a sin.

quote:


Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?
quote:



Devotly Catholic and a lifestyle couple.

quote:


Do you find the two diametrically opposed?
quote:



As a Catholic I find they actually compliment each other. Through out our history pain has helped to transend the physical world, it can be very spiritual wiiwd and at the very least makes us feel more connected to that energy at those times. (From a Theological perspective,this is not to imply that this is the actual churches stand on the issue. BDSM has never been brought up before the Pope for review, which it might have been condoned by JPII but more than likely not by Benedict, so long as any activity doesn't violate the actual tenets but even that is subject to discussion. Sin is not as clear cut outside of those guidelines, as any activity can become a sin once that line is crossed.)


edited because I am in no condition to even try a multiple answer quote.



marieToo -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 6:05:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?


No. I don't feel its a "sin". 

Im always in a spiritual state of mind; thats just something that is a part of my core and yet always on the surface at the same time.  While Ds practice does sometimes put in me in certain conflict with certain beliefs,  it really doesn't put me in conflict with my spirituality specificially. 

quote:

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?


I'm not a theist.  But would would describe my "religion" as a belief in faith and a certain flawless universal flow that doesn't make mistakes.  And so, I guess from that point of view my 'religion' is involved in my bdsm life and choices, as much as it is in any other part of my life, so there is no conflict in this area for me either.

quote:

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?


Not at all.



asassylilslave -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 6:16:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?

Ross



My religion does not interfer with the living of my life. In fact, it's the opposite; it enhances it [:)]



LaTigresse -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not (1/26/2007 11:27:52 AM)

My relationship style will not ever anything close to a sin to me.

I am extremely spiritual but will not use the word religioun as that has too many negative connotations for me.

No, I see absolutely zero conflict with my way of sharing a loving relationship and my spirituality. In fact, it is very connected.



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coupleseeking321

I'm a Southern Baptist my friend, everything is a sin. Personally though no, I'm sure that God isn't the uptight prick religous leaders make him out to be. I think he wants people to enjoy the bodies he gave them, to treat them with respect love and care but for his sake have a little fun with em.

So would whipping be considered fun from your point of view?


Ross



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:05:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin
Absolutely not!    Unless the consent and mentally competent adult parts are absent in the dynamic.

Consent is always the given...even when overtaken by force.

quote:

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM? 
I'm not terribly overt about my religion or my D/s involvement for that matter...  I suppose I'm overt if I'm talking about my belief in God or in church, and I'm overt about BDSM (more D/s for me) when on collarme, at a munch or play party.

So how would your religious beliefs temper your BDSM?

quote:

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?
Absolutely not, but than again I take the bible writings with a grain of salt, and find frankly that God/the writers didn't foresee the education of all people, especially women coming to factor into how the world works.    M


I imagine you are talkng about the human perception of the future rather than the belief that the Supreme Being would be faulty in predicting the future right?
 
Ross



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:08:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bearincuffs
Being Pagan/Wiccan, I have yet to experience any conflict with my beliefs and being the property of my Master. I use both terms as I don't follow one believe but a mixture of both.
 
I woould imagine that there is not the same guilt associated with such as that from a Roman Catholic background.

   
I went through my own spiritual renewal several years ago before beginning this journey into BDSM and in someways, my spirituality has been beneficial in this. I'm strictly a solitary practioner and have no desire to become overly "religious" either. I take what makes sense to me a nd discard the rest!
 
Many find doing this in BDSM practical
 
No, I don't find the two diametrically opposed in my opnion. The first part to The Creed states "Do what ye will, harm none." and is the basis which Wiccans follow as their Golden Rule so to speak. This also applies to being Master's slave.  He cherishes and cares for His slave. Master also teaches and guides His slave to be what Master wants but also guides His slave to be greater then what slave is.

So would beating and whipping be considered harm then?
 
Ross



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:09:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
My participation in a D/s, BDSM relationship is a form of spiritual practice.

How is it religious to you?

In ritual?

In pain?

In endorphines?

Ross



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not (1/26/2007 4:10:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?

Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?

Do you find the two diametrically opposed?

Ross



I believe in the Earth Goddess and she doesn't care that I particpate in BDSM. My Goddess isn't too uptight, like alot of the other Gods. I can do what I want to do as long as I do not hurt anyone doing it, that including myself.

I have to say I talk to her alot, even more these days and ask her to protect me and mine from the nutty followers of a couple of other well known Gods.


Do you find any religious overtones carried over to your performance of BDSM?


Ross



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not part (1/26/2007 4:17:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Do you subscribe to the notion that your participation in BDSM is a sin or you would rather not participate if you found yourself going toward a spiritual renewal of sorts?


No, i do not consider my participation in BDSM to be a sin.

Do you find it to be an expression of your faith then in action and participation?

quote:


Do you find yourself overtly religious yet still participate in BDSM?


Yes, i am a Christian and i do willingly participate in BDSM.

Do you participate with selfish motives or religious motives?

quote:


Do you find the two diametrically opposed?



No, i don't.  While i know i have sinned and there are certain sexual acts that are sinful, being a slave and being subjected to the Bondage and Discipline of my Master is not and neither is the fact that He is a Sadist and i am a Masochist. 

So your religion condones sadism and masochism?
 
Do the acts pertaining to discipline within BDSM considered sinful as well?


The Bible has many passages that speak directly about Masters and slaves and the disciplining of slaves by their Masters.  It isn't sinful.  Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery or to a Master's right to punish his slaves.

Was this in the same perception as what you are experiencing or more than of a group of workers / staff?

Here are some of the many Bible passages which directly sanction and regulate slavery.

Passages from the New Testament (KJV):

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
Other passages instructing slaves and slave owners in proper behavior are:

Colossians 4:1: "Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven."

1 Timothy 6:1-3 "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"

1 Corinthians 12:13: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Passages from the Old Testament (KJV): 

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Exodus 20:10: "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

References used:
Rabbi M.J. Raphall, "The Bible View of Slavery," delivered in New York City, 1861.
M.J, Raphall, "The Bible view of slavery," 1861-JAN-15

slave joy
Owned property of Master David


Do you corolate the difference between what was laid out in writings to that of perception of a social structure or do you feel it was to be strictly interpreted as it is within BDSM or is it simply a matter of convienence?
 
Ross



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