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strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 1:32:40 AM   
Inticed2sub


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		As I begin my journey into what I jokingly refer to as the "dark side", I am beginning to find the answers I need to figure things out in my own head.  But, I am curious if anyone else has come to the same conclusions I have about past relationships.  I am figuring out the reasons they haven't worked.  One reason is I keep dating the same guy over and over, he just has a different face.  Bastard needs to die.  Another theory I'm coming up with is this...I threaten men.  I know I do, and I do it because I am a very capable, confident, and self-sufficient woman.  I can handle just about anything thrown at me, and make it look easy.  I don't need to refer to my man about every little detail...waste of time if you ask me.  And I think it makes men feel like I don't need them.  I wonder if any of them ever realized that what I needed was for them to trust me enough to let me handle it without jumping in and forcing their opinion down my throat as the "only way" just to feel like they were in control.  Funny thing is they had it, they just didn't know it.  Insecurities.  It's ridiculous really, because all  I wanted, all I've ever wanted, is for my man to be proud of me.  To not worry, and let me take care it.   Trust and believe in ME and my abilities.   I learned how to be decisive, I learned how to make decisions with confidence, when on the inside I was a nervous wreck -  I still am sometimes, I just dont show it.   Out in the real world you can't let people see anything they deem as weak, you will get taken advantage of, walked over, and worse of all completely over-looked.  You have to show them you are not going to take their shit or they will shovel it all over you.  I never understood, until recently, that I grew increasingly bitter about constantly having to do things "his way" when he shouldn't have been wasting his time with it.  Made me feel like he didn't think I smart/capable/reliable etc. It's really weird as I see the irony in these situations...I mean, I have always gone for the more controlling type, and the problem is, its only the face they put on for the world.  Not one of them knew how to take control in the bedroom - the one fucking place I "needed" them to be.  Talk about being doomed to fail.  LOL.  And just for the newbie sub police...I always did anything that was asked of me, rarely questioned, even when I knew their decisions were going to cost me time, money, and headaches.  I have always given any and everything I have in my relationships, and up to this point all it's done is gotten me taken advantage of, because that face I show to the world, its not me.  I stand by my man with a fierce loyalty, trust him to make the right choices for us and always have.  I think of the man as the rock of the home, and the first place to look for guidance and support.  Its called head of the house for a reason.     So...anyone else feel like I do?   Do you feel like you threaten men, and have to down play your strengths?  Been made to feel stupid because they feel inadequate?  Ever felt like no matter what choice you make it will be the wrong one?  Any and all feed back is greatly appreciated, as I truly do not want to date that guy again.  I've seen the movie, I know how it ends.  Thanks to all for your time.     

< Message edited by Inticed2sub -- 1/24/2007 1:49:21 AM >
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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 1:58:12 AM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You're right, you keep dating the same guy over and over. He is seemingly confident and in control, but only socially or professionally but not in the places you truly need. You're going out with guys who are just like you. It obviously isn't working out, and the only thing all these relationships have in common is you. You don't threaten men, you challenge them and they come up short because you're challenging the wrong ones.

Go find a nice artist or English professor. Someone you think is too kind, but occasionally you see a certain spark in their eye. The "controlling type" is almost universally a jerk who lacks confidence in himself, and he'll never inspire confidence in you. No man that you want will ever want you to downplay your strengths. He'll appreciate your strength and love you all the more because of it. I'm the most laid-back guy in the world, and I love nothing more than to find a great girl with a PhD, a JD, an MD and a corner office. She has to be strong for everyone but me, and she can finally feel safe and taken care of when she's in my arms.

If their decisions are going to cost you time, money, and headaches, then you SHOULD question them, not just go along. You'll never gain mutual confidence or trust if you don't respect his decisions, and if he doesn't respect your opinion on matters as well.

What you're looking for is out there, I guarantee. You're not seeking the impossible or even the improbable, but your radar may be a little messed up in terms of what guys you're seeking out or responding to.

(in reply to Inticed2sub)
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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:13:32 AM   
Inticed2sub


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Obis..I could cry right now.  Thank you.  I feel like a huge floodlight has been aimed at my life and so many things are becoming clear.  This has been the week of self-revelation, and you have given me a new one.  I think you may have hit the bullseye with this one.  I have been dating men just like me...damn.  So, simple really.  Now, any advice as how to fix my radar?

(in reply to obis)
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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:22:04 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		There are times I mirrior a good bit of what your saying.  Life gave me hurdles to cross, I've crossed them.  And I have been told by some men that I am intimidating.  The way I see it is if one feels I intimidate them they are simply not ~my~ Dominant.  But that isnt why I am responding.. . ..  You mention this: "You have to show them you are not going to take their shit or they will shovel it all over you. "  this tiny statement bothers me alot. Possibly you were sensationalizing a bit and I am off base when I wonder if this kind of thinking isnt part of the problem.  Your reaction to what the world sends your way creates how people see you.  This statement brought pictures to my mind that you spend a great deal of time protecting yourself and your rights over percieved or imagined threats.  I would like to suggest working on becoming less threatened and more comfortable/calm with your abilitys.  The energy you no longer waste will allow you to enjoy the more subtle cue's from the one's you do not intimidate.
Best of Luck to You..............

< Message edited by Quivver -- 1/24/2007 2:23:55 AM >

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(in reply to obis)
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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:24:05 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i'm not sure this will help or not. i have come to realize that i need someone that can fill in my gaps and allow me to fill theirs, if that makes any sense.  i see gears in a machine the tooth of one filling the notch in the other and that is how they move.  Notch to notch or tooth to tooth a gear would just slip or grind.  

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:33:34 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings

i think a strong submisives males is wonderful i do not want someone who can be control so fast. i like the ideal he is strong and has power it is sexy to rule over someone like this yes i like that tyep of submissives i always go for that type it is so exciting to have that one who think he know it all and can not be taken down i like it

mons

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:37:53 AM   
Inticed2sub


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Quiver - honey, if you had a few days I could explain that they were very real threats..not percieved or imagined.  And damaging in more ways than you can image, because they were hidden behind the smile of someone I loved.  I do understand your concern though, and I am going to spend some time thinking of this.  We all know that sometimes we let our past color how we look at things.  I am wondering if maybe I am quick to become defensive.  Once bitten, twice shy?  Even though in my case its more like 100 times bitten, damn girl wake up and move your ass.  Something I will have to keep an eye on.  Thanks for the insight.

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 2:49:22 AM   
curiousjulie


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		Boy does that bite when written down.......wow you are so right......cj

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 4:12:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Welcome to the path!  Now learn how to write in paragraphs!

Seriously, we all have patterns and it takes serious work to break free of them but it CAN be done.  I know because I have broken though SOME of mine and have found and am working on others.

Therapy can help with this but not everyone can afford or get it.  Nothing works without hard vigilent work, you have to dig inside yourself to find out what drives those patterns and that is almost always patterns your parents had and that you have learned.

I was very much the controlling domineering jerk you used to love.  I have done a good bit of work on all three.  I used to pick small insecure powerless woman, although that is a pattern I have made great progress on changing.

So back to you, "men" feel threatened by you because you pick men who are insecure and overcompensate for it.  You need to learn to pick men who aren't threatened by it and spend their time creating a better relationship for both of you rather than trying to tear you down to build themselves up.

I LOVE strong women, I wouldn't have any other kind in my life so we ARE out there, you just have to learn to find us.

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 4:17:05 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Wonderful post.  Yes, it is hard to break through patterns and it does take hard work...hard work and perserverance.  But it can be done.  And you'll find yourself so much happier when you finally do.

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 4:51:05 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I prefer my submale to be intelligent, strong and confident, this has nothing to do with effecting his submission to me. Do I see this as a threat? No, I am strong, intelligent and confident myself. I have never wanted a sub that was any less then that, or someone that is submissive to just anyone. My male to outsiders is very dominant and no one would expect that he really has a submissive nature, that is because he only shows that side of himself to me.

~Lashra




_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 5:12:23 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I require any submissive I am going to consider for anything more than a playdate to be strong, confident and have their own personality. Without that, outside play I wil lose interest in them very quickly. It is only a threat to a dominant who is not as strong and confident as the submissive they have chosen. I've seen that often, a dominant person wil select a submissive they are attracted to on some level, and then instead of enjoying their confidence and persoality, seek to break them of it.
As long as the strength and personality arent making it difficult for my submissive to give him or herself to me, then I enjoy them for it.  After all, there has to be something there outside the private sector.
What impressed me most about Angel when he and I first met, was that when he asked me about other prospects at the time. I told him I would show him their profiles, if he wanted, and his response was "I have no competition, I am not worried. I am the one you are going to want, I already know it"  Yes, it was a little egotistical, and he was partly joking, but he was also right.  That cinfidece has carried through our entire relationship and made him the best save I have ever owned.

my 2 cents
DV 

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

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VampiresLair

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 5:55:06 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Now for the practicle advice you asked for. How do you "fix" your radar?
Take a little time to study people at social events. You know the bar, the dinner party, theparty, whatever type of vanilla or lifestyle gathering you spend time in, Kick back and watch people, watch for the ones who kinda hang back andexude a personal power without ever trying to control anything beyond their own little personal space. You're looking for those that are in control of their selfand that littlesection ofthe room about 2 ft around them and are not really worried about the rest of the room.
Study those people, (men and women) note the way they act and then you can look for that in the men you have an interest in.
"The attitude I like to use to describe you're looking at is " I control my entire universe, but I know my universe extends only about 2 ft around my self and I'm fine with that." When you have studied the people for alittle while you'll learn to spot those people in any room in a minute or two.

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 6:37:20 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Archer,

Thanks for that, I kept trying to come up with some grounded practical advice and just couldn't.  I second your remarks.

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 7:47:00 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Confident subs aren't a threat. They should be a requirement. Consider the reverse. A weak, unaware individual is more likely to use those traits in morning after regrets; agreed to activities can retroactively become abuse. Better to have a confident and strong individual who has done a bit of self analysis to determine the basis of their feelings. Even without the actual experience, these people will be able to draw upon their strength to surrender to the experience instead of analyzing or feeling guilty for what they are feeling.

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 7:51:26 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Confident subs aren't a threat. They should be a requirement. Consider the reverse. A weak, unaware individual is more likely to use those traits in morning after regrets; agreed to activities can retroactively become abuse. Better to have a confident and strong individual who has done a bit of self analysis to determine the basis of their feelings. Even without the actual experience, these people will be able to draw upon their strength to surrender to the experience instead of analyzing or feeling guilty for what they are feeling.


What I wanted to say but, said better.


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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 8:07:10 AM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obis

The "controlling type" is almost universally a jerk who lacks confidence in himself, and he'll never inspire confidence in you. No man that you want will ever want you to downplay your strengths. He'll appreciate your strength and love you all the more because of it.


Daddy tells me the same thing. 

soemtimes i do see that my strong confident side as a threat which i lower so i won't get rejected by the guys i date.  Daddy clearly understands what type of man would make me happy and knows that a man (vanilla and/or BDSM) on my level of intelligence and etc would be a perfect match for a ltr. out of all the men i've dated recently, only one has met His full approval.


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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 8:14:57 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		OP, Great thread, i can so identify with the " same guy different face"  dilema.
I was having a conversation with a male Dom friend regarding the people we attract in the vanilla world. I told him that the vanilla men i dated could be classified as submissively oriented (in a vanilla sense).  I asked his opinion on why that occurs, and he replied that  anyone who saw me on the street, would never assume  i was a submissive type ,  as he thought i exuded  confidence and strength.    Which ironically is not the case...it's just a by product of me having to feel like i can handle everything on my own, and feeling some what weak  or like a failure if i  need to reach out or ask for help or rely on anyone.

Archer...thanks so much for the tips,  good advice....




< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 1/24/2007 8:16:11 AM >

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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 8:29:59 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I recommend finding a Dominant who is outcome oriented, not process oriented. One that is happy to give you a task and say, "Make it so." Then, you go off your merry way, using the skills you've developed, to make it so.

Sit and write a list of the traits that you've dated time and time again. Then, write out the traits you think would truly match you and your particular skill set. Then, form a profile from THAT. There ARE those of us who appreciate subs/slaves who can function with autonomy. My girl is like this...she makes me look good. ;-)

Master Fire


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RE: strong confident subs: a threat or not? - 1/24/2007 9:00:34 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If you are picking people you cannot trust over and over again, then it's time to break the pattern. The best way is therapy. If you cannot afford one on one then look for a group therapy where the focus of the group is on the things you need to work on. You can find this by calling recommended psychotherapists and ask if they run such a group or know of one. I've been recommended by one therapist to join a different one's group.

If you can't find a group then try ACOA, adult children of alcoholics. Call the number in the phone book and get a list of where and when the groups are meeting. You don't have to be a child of an alcoholic, in fact you don't even have to say anything. Cost is a dollar in the pot toward nominal rent in a church basement usually and to buy coffee supplies. You can sit in the back and listen and hear other people say things which are hidden in your heart. Knowing that you aren't the only one with these fears is very freeing.

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