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Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 6:07:18 AM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		I wanted to share somethings I have been discovering....reading about Jung's archetype  "Shadow"  and " Individuation" has helped me to understand and identify with what I am feeling as a submissive....the more I learn...experience....the more I am convinced that BDSM relationships are healthier for me than a vanilla relationship ever was....
 
One of Jung's central concepts is individuation; his term for a progression of personal development involves creating a link between the ego and the self. The ego is the center of consciousness; the self is the center of the total psyche, including both the conscious and the unconscious. There is constant interaction amongst the two. They are not separate but are two characteristic of a single structure. Individuation is the process of developing unity of all the various parts of the psyche. Carl Jung called…. the shadow…. the dark unaware part of the psyche…. which he regarded as not being sick, but as a necessary part of the human experience. The shadow is the tunnel, guide or link through which one reaches the deepest, most basic layers of psyche. Going through the tunnel, or abandonment of the ego defenses leaves one feeling degraded. Accepting the shadow provides a content sense of self-knowledge, self-acceptance and a fuller sense of being alive. The experience of the shadow is humiliating but is an essential  part of  life which includes suffering, pain, powerlessness and humiliation.
 
 
 
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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:34:27 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I agree that we all have our light and dark sides to our personalities. Too many people shy away from the latter, to their detriment. Many of us in the lifestyle enjoy it because it does allow us to explore that other side of ourselves. I don't agree that the experience of the shadow is necessarily humiliating, at least it was not so for me. But it was humbiing.

Society programs us to be good little citizens, and to bury the dark side of our psyche because it is bad. As is so often the case, what is good for society is not necessarily good for the individual. No-one can really know who they are without having travelled the dark paths of their spirit.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:37:12 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I often felt I was finally embracing the "shadow" (as Carl Jung intended the term) when I stopped fighting myself and my need to be dominated and controlled.  It has been freeing...as if all parts of me are united now, the light and the dark aspects of myself, and it gives me a sense of being complete rather than cut off from parts of myself.  I love the concepts of Carl Jung, and found them very applicable in my own processes of submission.   

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 8:07:31 AM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		"humbling" would have been a much better description ...

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 8:09:19 AM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		I am begining to feel balanced too....as if certain pieces of me are no longer missing....

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 8:56:10 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Jung was a great psychologist who did a lot oto further research and study, and cultivate interest in the field when it was still very new as a stand alone field as opposed to being a subset of philosophy.

That being said, we've come a long way since and if there's anything we can know about psychology, is that we can create a million models for the same process of the psyche.

I do not consider myself to have a "shadow" I need to connect with.  I have what would be considered extremely dark and deep parts of myself, but I don't consider them a shadow part of me.  In the process of self awareness, we obviously must meet these deep corners of ourselves and process them into the whole of who we are, and this can obviously be described as Jung has.

But that's only a small piece of the overall process.  Becoming self-aware is so much more than just carving out the darkness. 

And I certainly don't consider my bdsm kinkiness or bi poly switch self to have anything to do with my "darkness."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 8:59:43 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Life is full of duality. In western cultures, many people work very hard to seperate themselves and get rid of "evil". What they don't realize is that you simply cannot seperate the two no more than you can get rid of the back of a coin. So, we deny it exists and go about our life.

Medince teaching: If you stand with the "good" side of you in one hand and the "bad" side of you in the other and try to keep them as far apart as possible, your arms will grow tired and you eventually can no longer maintain it. If you bring the two together and work to make them one, you can sit easily with your hands resting in your lap.

I highly suggest two books for you:
Shadow Dance
and Sacred Contracts

These made a huge impact in my life.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 10:28:28 AM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		You have a good point about"darkness"...
darkness to me is something without light....darkness tends to represent to me something I can not see....and for me that is what my journey into self discovery has been...in essence...I have turned a light on and I am discovering/seeing parts of me that have been in the dark for far to long....

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 10:29:48 AM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for the reading suggestions....but more thanks for the comments...I am really enjoying reading the posts...very enlightening.....

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 11:56:51 AM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		I agree with MasterFireMaam. Hell, that's why I've had Jekyll and Hyde lyrics as my sig at one point in my time here (the song was Facade, if anyone's curious). A lot of people refuse to admit the things lying in the twisted corners of their mind and denying they exist isn't good. I'm still not totally comfortable with part of my mind, but I'm working on it the more I find similar people to reassure me that I'm not the only one who thinks about...things I can't mention here because they're against TOS.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 12:04:19 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Jung was a great psychologist who did a lot oto further research and study, and cultivate interest in the field when it was still very new as a stand alone field as opposed to being a subset of philosophy.

That being said, we've come a long way since and if there's anything we can know about psychology, is that we can create a million models for the same process of the psyche.

I do not consider myself to have a "shadow" I need to connect with.  I have what would be considered extremely dark and deep parts of myself, but I don't consider them a shadow part of me.  In the process of self awareness, we obviously must meet these deep corners of ourselves and process them into the whole of who we are, and this can obviously be described as Jung has.

But that's only a small piece of the overall process.  Becoming self-aware is so much more than just carving out the darkness. 

And I certainly don't consider my bdsm kinkiness or bi poly switch self to have anything to do with my "darkness."


One of the misconceptions is that the items found in the shadow are bad or evil. If I gave this impression in my previous post, I'm sorry...it's not true. Being in the shadow simply means that these things are hidden from us. These things can be positive such as hidden talents. Many people in a class I attended this weekend were berated to NOT SING as children...thus they felt they COULDN'T sing. If they truly can sing (and most people carried a half-way decent tune when we sang a song), this talent is in the shadow of the psyche.

Sing, sing a song, sing out loud, sing out strong...

Master Fire - all about the Jungian ;-)


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 2:08:18 PM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline 		I had a similar experience too...oh no wait....that was a drucken night with a Karoke mic....sorry wrong mental recall...lol...
 
I never took it as bad or evil....just anothers opinion...which never has a right or a wrong....

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:07:15 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		actually, in terms of relationship and sexual dynamics, the "Shadow" is nowhere near as important as the Anima and Animus and how we are purported to seek them out.

food for thought.

fairly non calorific, too.

_____________________________

I am (now) "Hiltie", hear me ROARRRRR! And have a cuffy cake, they're nice.

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:12:14 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline 		In a comparitive mythology class today, I was watching an old interview with Joseph Campbell, mythologist extraordinaire and big fan of Jung's.  Much of what he said about the hero's journey struck home kink wise - the abandonment of ego, the struggle to serve something outside self, etc.  Maybe it was just my state of mind.

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:15:30 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		Yes but Jo was an old queeny PRAT.

_____________________________

I am (now) "Hiltie", hear me ROARRRRR! And have a cuffy cake, they're nice.

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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 7:29:34 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

Yes but Jo was an old queeny PRAT.


Truth comes in many packages. Jo had some good things to say. Even you have good things to say, on occasion. ;-)

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to HatesParisHilton)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/24/2007 8:39:02 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		"Truth comes in many packages. Jo had some good things to say. Even you have good things to say, on occasion. ;-)"

what, you trying to out me as someone that actually gives a shit about romance over sex and cares about peoples' psychic welfare in this big muddled pool we call "alternative lifestyle"?

(and don't you dare get toppy with me and say "I think you just did that to yourself, LOL.  I ain't no switch...)

_____________________________

I am (now) "Hiltie", hear me ROARRRRR! And have a cuffy cake, they're nice.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/25/2007 7:07:26 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton
(and don't you dare get toppy with me and say "I think you just did that to yourself, LOL.  I ain't no switch...)


You're secret is safe with me. I won't tell. ;-)

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to HatesParisHilton)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Carl Jung's "Shadow" - 1/25/2007 7:42:46 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

But that's only a small piece of the overall process. Becoming self-aware is so much more than just carving out the darkness.


Very true, LA. Self-awareness means examining yourself on many, many levels. We point out the darkness for special consideration because it has been my experience that it is the one area that most people have the most trouble with. And the one society teaches should be buried, ignored, denied.

I would only disagree with your statement of "carving out the darkness". It's not a matter of exorcising it, but rather the process of owning it and assimilating it within the rest of your personality.

Also agree that darkness is not necessarily evil, though it sure can manifest itself that way in some individuals. For most of us, I believe the darkness within is those parts of ourselves we our not proud of, do not want to own up to, whatever characteristics they may be.

One of my all time favorite SF movies is Forbidden Planet, which focused on the id (Freudian again), and the horror if it had the power to be awakened without control. Terribly oversimplified for a 1950's audience, it never the less was a fascinating introduction to the buried part of our psyches.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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