RE: Israel

RE: Israel (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

meatcleaver -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 2:17:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarandSpite 'even giving up land' (you should have said 'even giving up land that didn't legally belong to them in the first place). when in doubt, say the word 'terrorist' a lot. that usually works. look up resolution 242 and see why you are wrong. Israel has never once put forward a serious peace plan. It gave up land for peace with Egypt but it has never and I mean never, given up land for peace with the Palestinians. Ehud Barak's proposal which is often offered as proof that Israel has seriously tried was totally disingenuous. It would have left the west bank riven and divided by Israeli held roads and check points and in control of Palestinian water, no serious Palestinian could have accepted it and I guess Barak knew which was why he proposed it. As for withdrawal from Gaza, that was Israel creating a huge concentration camp surrounded by Israeli guards. The one Gaza/Egypt border which has no common border with Israel is controled by Israel, some freedom. Israel controls the money that goes in and out of Gaza. Israel also happily destroys homes and murders at will in this 'free Gaza'. I guess terrorism is second nature to Israel because that was how Israel was born, through terrorism.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 3:12:54 AM)
When an Israeli points to a strip of land and says that it belongs to them because God says so I think you can expect trouble if someone else has been living there for several generations.... that is what you have got, trouble with a capital T Whats the solution, major compromise from both sides. Is that likely ? Will the US change its attitude to Israel? I dont know. Israel was establisheby by force of arms in I thought 1948, driving Palestinians from their homes in the process. The state was instantly recognised by the US. Collusion ?

docmike1 -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 4:58:19 AM)
To all the "Anti Israels"... A few thoughts ... As mentioned "Israel conquered and kicked out the palestinans etc etc" Israel didnt conquor, but individuals purchased most of the land , before Israels creation. "Israel uses it historic past to hustify it's present day existence"...The modern day Israel was agreed upon by the British mandate , via the Balfour decleration as a sort of "Prize" for the jewish population who helped fight the Brits fight the Axis forces during WW1 But , just for the record, yes historicly, quite right , if you use the old testament as your source . most people in the middle east wether moslems or christians except the old testament Israel Behaviour.. I think countries such as the US and Britain , could take a lesson from Israel. In Israels history, It has never ever, targeted civilians, although civilians have been unfortunatley been hit. Israel , has never intentionally aimed at them. Hamas , Jihad etc etc, on the other hand only aim at civilians..I seem to remeber the bombing of Drezden by the Alies in the WW2 killing 50,000 innocent civilians in one night, or how the British massacred entire villiages in India, or that of the US in Vietnam, or closer to today, the bombings of Afgahnistan and Iraq, whereby in the first year of these countries occupation, the US and England killed more civilians than the whole 100 YEAR MIDDLE EAST CONFLICT.. You critisize Isreal, who with pin point and surgical accuracy , take out terrorist in Gaza, which is situated less than 40 miles from our capital, While your own countries cross half way around the world, lose hundreds of soldiers and Kill and mame 10's of thousands innocent civilians. My country is far from perfect, but our morales in combat and occupation are 10 fold better than anyother countries of today ps.excuse me if ther'e any spelling mistakes, as English is my second language

SugarandSpite -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 6:26:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 To all the "Anti Israels"... A few thoughts ... As mentioned "Israel conquered and kicked out the palestinans etc etc" Israel didnt conquor, but individuals purchased most of the land , before Israels creation. "Israel uses it historic past to hustify it's present day existence"...The modern day Israel was agreed upon by the British mandate , via the Balfour decleration as a sort of "Prize" for the jewish population who helped fight the Brits fight the Axis forces during WW1 But , just for the record, yes historicly, quite right , if you use the old testament as your source . most people in the middle east wether moslems or christians except the old testament Israel Behaviour.. I think countries such as the US and Britain , could take a lesson from Israel. In Israels history, It has never ever, targeted civilians, although civilians have been unfortunatley been hit. Israel , has never intentionally aimed at them. Hamas , Jihad etc etc, on the other hand only aim at civilians..I seem to remeber the bombing of Drezden by the Alies in the WW2 killing 50,000 innocent civilians in one night, or how the British massacred entire villiages in India, or that of the US in Vietnam, or closer to today, the bombings of Afgahnistan and Iraq, whereby in the first year of these countries occupation, the US and England killed more civilians than the whole 100 YEAR MIDDLE EAST CONFLICT.. You critisize Isreal, who with pin point and surgical accuracy , take out terrorist in Gaza, which is situated less than 40 miles from our capital, While your own countries cross half way around the world, lose hundreds of soldiers and Kill and mame 10's of thousands innocent civilians. My country is far from perfect, but our morales in combat and occupation are 10 fold better than anyother countries of today ps.excuse me if ther'e any spelling mistakes, as English is my second language oh right, gotcha. so israel got to be one of the biggest violators of international law on the planet by being "nice". why didnt we think of that. israel defied how many resolutions again? somewhere around 65? you might want to tell the palestinian family playing on a beach that the israelis blew apart how they dont "ever, ever target civilians". or ask why they put a 9 year old palestinian boy on the front of a tank to prevent it being attacked. or the dozens of women and children sheltering in a non-military house in lebanon that met with an intense israeli bombing. or the english news reporter (clearly marked) killed at the second attempt while fleeing from the first barrage of israeli attack or the fact that israel has some of the most advanced guided missile weaponry in the world yet they still manage to consistently hit civilian buildings (beit hanoun, november 8th 2006, killing 19 women and children and wounding 40 more) no matter how many times you repeat it, this lie that israel kills nicely needs put to rest once and for all.

meatcleaver -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 6:42:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 To all the "Anti Israels"... A few thoughts ... As mentioned "Israel conquered and kicked out the palestinans etc etc" Israel didnt conquor, but individuals purchased most of the land , before Israels creation. You can purchase land in any country you want but it doesn't mean you own the country. quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 "Israel uses it historic past to hustify it's present day existence"...The modern day Israel was agreed upon by the British mandate , via the Balfour decleration as a sort of "Prize" for the jewish population who helped fight the Brits fight the Axis forces during WW1 But , just for the record, yes historicly, quite right , if you use the old testament as your source . most people in the middle east wether moslems or christians except the old testament The Balfour agreement said the land under British mandate should be divided into two countries, one Jewish and one Muslim. In both countries ALL people should have the same rights and treated equally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917 The Balfour agreement was not implimented because there was no agreement between the Jewish population and the muslim population, that was when the Jewish terrorist gangs set up their own country and ran the resident Arab muslims and christians out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus http://www.alnakba.org/ As for land promised to the Jews in the old testement, it just happened to be promised by the Jewish god who ordered Moses to cimmit genocide for the promised land. Something of an irony there don't you think? quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 Israel Behaviour.. I think countries such as the US and Britain , could take a lesson from Israel. In Israels history, It has never ever, targeted civilians, although civilians have been unfortunatley been hit. Israel , has never intentionally aimed at them. Hamas , Jihad etc etc, on the other hand only aim at civilians..I seem to remeber the bombing of Drezden by the Alies in the WW2 killing 50,000 innocent civilians in one night, or how the British massacred entire villiages in India, or that of the US in Vietnam, or closer to today, the bombings of Afgahnistan and Iraq, whereby in the first year of these countries occupation, the US and England killed more civilians than the whole 100 YEAR MIDDLE EAST CONFLICT.. You critisize Isreal, who with pin point and surgical accuracy , take out terrorist in Gaza, which is situated less than 40 miles from our capital, While your own countries cross half way around the world, lose hundreds of soldiers and Kill and mame 10's of thousands innocent civilians. My country is far from perfect, but our morales in combat and occupation are 10 fold better than anyother countries of today ps.excuse me if ther'e any spelling mistakes, as English is my second language There is enough film to show that Israel does purposely target and kill civilians. You are right, Britain and the US doesn't have a track record they can be proud of either and I will back you 100% on that.

sleazy -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 6:46:23 AM)
not going to bother after all

docmike1 -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 7:53:14 AM)
To Sugerandspice I would of thought those who aim intentially at civilians are far worse violaters than Israel...There is no nice killings or violence at all , I totaly agree, but however trival it maybe in your eyes, we aplogise when this happens , while our palestinian cousins chant "Allla wakba" after blowing up our buses. Regarding human values etc..Every country has its hooligans, unfortunatley, Israel is no exception. . Violence against innocent by our soldiers are acts of individuals , not policy ,as if with our neighbours. Re :Lebanon: Israel attacked areas held by Hizbollah, we at least gave a warning to all civilians to leave before bombing, more than Hizbollah did before firing it's rockets into Israel . and more than the Brits did/do in Iraq Regarding 9 year old standing in front of tanks : You only prove Israels restraint, as he if this would have happened in another country , he may well have been run over by the tank.

meatcleaver -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 8:05:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 To Sugerandspice Re :Lebanon: Israel attacked areas held by Hizbollah, we at least gave a warning to all civilians to leave before bombing, more than Hizbollah did before firing it's rockets into Israel . and more than the Brits did/do in Iraq Regarding 9 year old standing in front of tanks : You only prove Israels restraint, as he if this would have happened in another country , he may well have been run over by the tank. Israel attacked the infrastructure of the whole country, not just where Hezbollah were, there could be no other reason for it but collective punishment. Human Rights Watch and other agencies said Israel attacked residential areas where there were no evidence of Hezzbollah fighters. Even Israeli soldiers said they were ordered to fire cluster bombs into civilian areas which could be for no other reason than collective punishment. The Lebanese war was collective punishment and totally misconceived because Israel played into the hands of its enemies.

docmike1 -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 8:18:40 AM)
To Meatcleaver Totaly agree that Israel played into the hands of their enemies, the elected are now paying the price. Such is how it is in a demoracy. The war was a response, to the killing and kidnapping, and yes punishing Hizbollah Only. No aimed attacks at Suni's or christians (who for the record are prefer Israel to a moslem hizbollah run Lebanon, as it was Israel who saved the christians from the moslem masscres in the 80's, and since the Sabara and Shatila massacres commited by the christians, which , yes, of coures, Israel got blamed for, Israel, has maintaned a low profile them)

meatcleaver -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 9:11:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: docmike1 To Meatcleaver Totaly agree that Israel played into the hands of their enemies, the elected are now paying the price. Such is how it is in a demoracy. The war was a response, to the killing and kidnapping, and yes punishing Hizbollah Only. No aimed attacks at Suni's or christians (who for the record are prefer Israel to a moslem hizbollah run Lebanon, as it was Israel who saved the christians from the moslem masscres in the 80's, and since the Sabara and Shatila massacres commited by the christians, which , yes, of coures, Israel got blamed for, Israel, has maintaned a low profile them) At the refugee camp masacres, the only way Christians could operate was by Israel turning a blind eye. Sharon was censured by the Israeli Parliament if I remember rightly.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 10:01:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarandSpite so israel got to be one of the biggest violators of international law on the planet by being "nice". why didnt we think of that. israel defied how many resolutions again? somewhere around 65? You might want to actually read some of the "resolutions" that you are talking about, and come to understand their "legal" impact. Most (if not all) of the resolutions you are claiming that Israel "violated" were more along the lines of "a sense of the Senate" resolutions that the US Congress sometimes plays with. No legal impact, because they aren't "binding". FirmKY

meatcleaver -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 10:05:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY No legal impact, because they aren't "binding". FirmKY I have to agree. The USA vetoes all resolutions that would be binding on Israel and..... What's the point, the US has a completely different stance and morality when it comes to Israeli opposition.

philosophy -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 3:47:25 PM)
"In Israels history, It has never ever, targeted civilians, although civilians have been unfortunatley been hit. Israel , has never intentionally aimed at them." ...and blowing up civilian power plants isn't targeting civilians? You know, wiping out a Lebanese block of flats with everyone in it, just because a couple of yahoos launched a poorly aimed missile from the roof isn't exactly not targeting civilians. Incidentally, if annexing land by means of war is a legitimate form of national expansion, then why was Saddam stopped from occupying Kuwait? Are you seriously suggesting a need for lebensraum is a reasonable excuse for Israeli expansion? Can you remember the last regime to offer that as a reason?

Termyn8or -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 4:46:52 PM)
Thought I was going to stay out of this one but..... Someone mentioned giving the US back to the American natives. Right. Sold them infected blankets. Forced them off the good land pretty much into the desert. Put a bounty on them, I have heard that they learned how to scalp from the White Man, as this was the way to collect the bounty. When that didn't work they put a bounty on buffalo to starve them out. Same type of people who did those things decided that Israel was going to exist and Palestine would not. Have you seen the map of the "security fence" which is basically a wall with gates which only open at certain times. Some Palestinians have died for lack of medical care, their livestrock starves to death as well. Most of the good water is on the Israeli side, so they sell it to the Palestinians. Now picture this, China, Russia, Iran and a few other countries decide that part of the US indeed does belong to Mexico and we are ordered to give it back. If we comply, all our homes and lives people have built in those communities is gone. If we do not comply, explain to me why they can't use force to take it. And I don't mean the US' military might. Give me a moral reason that, if the UN says it we do not have to do it. A body ½ round the world decided the Palestinians lives, homes and communities were not important. If you live in the US, you had better hope to your God that what goes around does not come around. T

SugarandSpite -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 9:18:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: SugarandSpite so israel got to be one of the biggest violators of international law on the planet by being "nice". why didnt we think of that. israel defied how many resolutions again? somewhere around 65? You might want to actually read some of the "resolutions" that you are talking about, and come to understand their "legal" impact. Most (if not all) of the resolutions you are claiming that Israel "violated" were more along the lines of "a sense of the Senate" resolutions that the US Congress sometimes plays with. No legal impact, because they aren't "binding". FirmKY if i were you i'd sue the person that told you that because they're not "binding" they're "acceptable" enjoy the "read" and this is just 1955-92. 1955-1992: * Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid". * Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people". * Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem". * Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions". * Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria". * Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control". * Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees". * Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan". * Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem". * Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250". * Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital". * Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation". * Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation". * Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport". * Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan". * Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem". Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon". Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem". * Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon". * Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon". * Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon". * Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem". * Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon". * Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon". * Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon". * Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon". * Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty". * Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon". * Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". * Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon. * Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces". * Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention". * Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon". * Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories". * Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program". * Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon". * Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return". * Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians". * Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention". * Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'". * Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'". * Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors". * Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility". * Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith". * Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon". * Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops". * Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon". * Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in". * Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon". * Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon". * Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut". * Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters. * Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw". * Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops". * Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians. * Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention. * Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians". * Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians. * Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians. * Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount. * Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations. * Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians. * Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return. * Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians. * Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

Real0ne -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 9:28:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You might want to actually read some of the "resolutions" that you are talking about, and come to understand their "legal" impact. Most (if not all) of the resolutions you are claiming that Israel "violated" were more along the lines of "a sense of the Senate" resolutions that the US Congress sometimes plays with. No legal impact, because they aren't "binding". FirmKY exactly because the last thing we want is peace over there till our azzez are firmly implanted and even then it may not be in our best interest. speaking politically here The sacred 11's 13's and 33's http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/final_warning/final_warning_table_of_contents.htm http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/wtc/index02.htm

Adrenochrome -> RE: Israel (1/25/2007 10:11:50 PM)
I rather think that the situation is insoluble, at this point, and that both sides deserve each other. Beyond any shadow of a doubt, things like Palestinian suicide bombers are evil. At the same time, the Israeli pre-emptive doctrine of aggressive action (masquerading constantly as pre-emptive defensive measures) that has led to things like the Occupied Territories, destruction of civilian neighbourhoods in retaliatory attacks, and officially-sactioned treatment of Palestinians as second-class citizens are all also evil acts. So, in short, there are no good guys. Both sides need to stop what they're doing entirely, but neither side will, so it'll continue to spiral its way down to genocide of one faction or another. In the end, the global community should be ashamed of both nations.

docmike1 -> RE: Israel (1/26/2007 12:00:18 AM)
To meatcleaver Re" Israeli expansion" I assure you, Israel, even in the first Lebanese war , had no intentions of expansion. Look at all the wars: 1948 fighting for independnce 1956 Nassar blocked the suez canal , choking Israel (and Britains) supleis route 1967 Nassar expelled the UN Buffer zone forces from the sinai and the Golan , which was the same as declaring war 1973 Israel was attacked 1982 First Lebanese war, due to continuous rockets being fired into northen Israel 2006 Second Lebanese war: Dito , plus the killing of Israeli soldiers by hizbollah on the border PRIOR to Israel attack I am Israeli , I love my country, but the same way a father loves his kid, he also has to admit when his child mis-behaves...We do this by elections. I dont know how many Israelis you've met or known, but the vast majority, are willing to give up all areas 100% for a long andlasting peace. At present , if you look whats going on in gaza etc,there isnt a body, who can claim that if and when they have their own state (And I hope this situation chnges ASAP) They could maintain power. Remember, we left Lebanon in thje 90's , rocket attacks continued, we left Gaza, Daily rocket attacks into southern Israel. Dont mistake us as a country of hardline war mongers, as most of us , are so willing to compromise, for the sake of both future generations. What bothers us is, that voices like my own arent heard from the other side, And the call "To push the Jews into the sea" is still chanted daily, and the elected Hamas, dont even recognize us as a state..Therefore, unfortunatley, I'm far from optermistic about the immidiate future..

docmike1 -> RE: Israel (1/26/2007 12:15:18 AM)
To Sugarandspite You seem to have forgot to mention the other resoloutions made against the the arab nations, for their attacks and aimed massacres against our citizens , Just to name a few The maalot massacre, where school children where gounded down by palestinian terrorist The munich massacare , where the olympic delegation was gunned down in 1972 The beit shan massacre of Israeli schoolgirls, shot by a jordanian soldier. Numerous resoloutions regarding the suicide bombers, who have killed Hundreds upon hundreds of innocent civilians. What UN resouloution you quoted accused Israel of intentionally aiming to hit civilians

SkatDomina -> RE: Israel (1/26/2007 1:04:47 AM)
I certainly wouldn't defend the attacks on Israel but you would need to be blind in both eyes to believe Israel is any kind of innocent party. They all should have their heads smacked together. The only winners in this stupid fiasco are the gravediggers.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875