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RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 6:38:59 AM

tangldupinblue

Posts: 230
Joined: 3/20/2006
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i know the first i ever really felt like i was training was the first time i had to control my own wants and opinions, the first time i had to just sit back and close my mouth and have faith, i felt the change inside and will be never be the same again.

blue

_____________________________

Those who deserve punshiment, take it calmly.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 21

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 6:48:00 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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When I use the term "training" in relationship to what I do, I mean the following:

1) A specific program I designed that gives practice in a variety of BDSM activites.

2) A specific program I designed that explains my ideas and expectation for protocols and practice in these.

3) A specific program I designed that gives me and the other person a chance to see if there is enough common interests and desires to continue onto another level of relationship.

Limits I have on training relationships:
1) No sexual contact -- I am very choosy about who I have sex with and I believe that sex will cloud the judgements that need to be made during this learning and growing experience.

2) I am not "Mistress" that is a title and position I earn through the process of training if we decide to continue a Ds relationship.

3) The trainee is not a slave, that is a title and position they earn hrough the process of training if we decide to continue a Ds relationship.

4) Minimum number of meetings and hours spent actively training -- requires "homework" on the part of both people.

Just how I view and use training in my own life.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to tangldupinblue)

Post #: 22

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 6:55:11 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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To ME,

When I refer to training, it is the communication of my continuing expectations and how I expect them to be met.

It may range from correcting a girl who speaks of herself or her goals and uses a self mocking tone or laugh. I expect them to be proud and positive and one can hear a lot in how one thinks of themselves by the tone in their voice. I don't want it faked so I don't push, I simply point it out to them and ask that they speak of themselves more positively.

It can be how and where I expect them to walk and stand depending on the type of social gathering we are attending. At most scene events they are to walk to my right, a half step behind me. At places like PE, where it is less safe, they stand a half step in front of me so I can keep my eye on them.

It may be as simple (but VERY important to me) as how I expect my back to be scratched.

Something I love doing is changing the way a woman does her makeup. It strikes very deep emotionally and can be quite effective on the right woman. It might be not allowing them to wear makeup (effective at getting the attention of a woman used to using her beauty and charms) or to take one to Lancolm (with a hidden ball gag in her mouth) and after slipping a $100 to the artist, explaining to them exactly how you would like your woman to look.

I am not a big one for position training, but there are a few I find useful. Teaching those along with the subtle hand and voice signals for them is usually hot for both and useful to me.

Bottom line however, for me, when I train someone is to have a goal in mind. Am I training someone purely for me, perhaps I am simply helping them mold themselves knowing they or I will move on? Training must also take into account WHO you are training so as to make the most of their talents and enrich my life as well as theirs.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 23

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:00:21 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

The most difficult thing a person can do is to evaluate or analyze him/herself. Assumptions made about what the union of two people will be like when they are together are usually wrong or at least don't consider every detail or every twist that life throws at them. Planning and communication over time serve to establish a good relationship foundation. Documenting goals is a good tool to maintain focus. Training is the reaction to reality.

The focus of training only on the submissive side of the flogger is incorrect. The dominant must also go through a training process relative to the relationship. In many regards a dominant's training is more important. The dominant must read the actions and reactions of the submissive. He/she must train himself to use what makes his submissive react, act, and behave in a manner that achieves the goals set for the relationship. He must know the sub at least as well, if not more, than the sub knows herself. That takes training, training which reacts to reality.

The issue then arises is this an example of the evil and avoided "topping from below". Is the idea of a dominant needing training a example of this? Not in my opinion because I've always believe that both the Master and slave serve and submit. They serve/submit to the relationship that they both surrender. If that is rationalization, so be it.

Regardless of any real or internet incurred experience all dominants need to "train" when it comes to a new relationship. Experience may expedite the process but doesn't eliminate it. A comparative experience is the training of a pet. Sure a new puppy needs training, but even the famous "dog whisperer" himself says that each pet is different and the master must learn what training tools are most effective.

A D/s relationship is a dance. It meshes personalities and physical needs and desires with fantasy. A partner shares in the training process to make the dance beautiful and not just a automatic reaction to force or fear. There is no way to accomplish this with only one partner learning.

Training is an open mind reacting to reality to achieve a desired goal. In a relationship the goal should be a shared goal, a common desire to experience complimentary activities.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 24

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:10:28 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Merc,

I completely agree about "training" as a dominant. What so few get is how important making mistakes is. I have always been and will always be a "bad dom", I will always make mistakes. However, it is because I have made SO many mistakes, some horrible emotionally painful ones that I AM so good.

I was just speaking to someone about how many classes there are about how to beat someone with X or to use technique Y but you almost never see deep serious discussions/classes on making relationships work and dealing with the creating/blending/dance of making a real one work. We all need to tie LA down and FORCE her to teach one. I know I benefited greatly from a series done in San Francisco by two dominant women.

GREAT post Merc!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:16:19 AM

MasterGremlin

Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

Training for me has been those times when Master has taught me to go beyond my "limits" breaking down preconcieved taboos that are consistant with the conservative upbringing I have, but then I suppose it's all training

It is also learning what pleases Him and what I can do to make His life easier. In 9 years the learning hasn't stopped yet.
As for the "training collar", I know that S/some use a collar to indicate a "degree" of commitment. Kind of like kids will get a "promise" ring etc... It is an indicator to T/them (the participants) that they are not just playing but are seriously seeing if they are compatible. As always, it just depends on the P/parties involved and what T/they need and negotiate.
Cordially,
minxy

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 26

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:27:16 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Merc and Michael,

Thank you both so much for your input on this subject. I want to print out what you wrote and carry it in my wallet or hang it on my fridge. I am such a self critical perfectionist. I sometimes forget that it's okay to make mistakes. That being in a state of constant learning really is acceptable. And you both wrote it so beautifully.

LeeAnn

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:37:30 AM

darksdesire

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Joined: 10/18/2006
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Merc

I agree completely with what you've said. I've learned that the Master also serves the slave (although many are uncomfortable with this notion). He learns who she is, what motivates her, what kinds of things might be detrimental to her and to the relationship. It is indeed a dance, and is subject to all of the dynamics that color any relationship. I suppose in extreme situations, a M/s relationship may indeed be one sided, but I just don't often find that this is the case. In training the slave, the Master is also training himself to be her Master.

Slavemaia, I wanted to comment on your statement about how a slave approaches a M/s relationship with preconceived notions about what it means to be a slave. This was certainly the case for me, and much of my training has been on letting go of those notions. I still struggle with that from time to time, and have to repeatedly remind myself to let go of the reins. An example of this is when I recently posted regarding some confusion I had about wanting more daily control than my Master was giving me. After thinking it through and after multiple conversations with my Master, I came to understand that I was expecting him to act in a way that was consistent with my notion of a M/s relationship. A big part of my training has been letting go of ideas just like that, of letting go of trying to control the relationship, and adapting to what he wants. My training has probably been more about this sort of surrender than anything else. It is easy to learn to cook what he likes, to give him massages, to iron his shirts. The behavioral training has been a cinch. It is the deeper surrender to his will that takes time and patience. I believed that I would have no problem giving up all control, and while that has been true on the surface issues, on a deeper, more emotional and relational level, it has been much more challenging.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 28

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:39:05 AM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Chairman is very kind, loving and caring. Most of the time He acts pretty much like, well - Chairman - not what my keen little mind thinks of when it conjures up an image of a Master. In addition He's lenient at times, strict at other times, playful and enjoys my feistiness to a point. He finds my intelligence and opinions beneficial to Him and so, oftentimes i can "feel" like this is not a D/s relationship at all. WRONG. It very much is. The fact is it's developing His way, not according to all my fantacized ideas of what it's "supposed" to feel and look like.

In some ways I am always being trained everytime I interact with my Daddy. He told me last night he always has our dynamic in the back of his mind whenever we interact. At times it is not obvious that I am being "trained" for the lack of a better word, but at the most odd times he will assert his dominance over me, just to let me know it is there. It takes the form of asking me to do a task, pulling my hair when I least expect it (something I enjoy). It can take many other forms, but sometimes I am not even aware he is doing it because it is so subtle.

As far as a collar for training, there is only one collar that has meaning for us, and that is the full collar, which is akin to marriage in the level of commitment that we view it, but even after we get to that place, I doubt very highly that he will ever stop "training" me, because in essense that is a huge part of our psychology.... anything worthwhile is worth working for to obtain, and my submission is worth the effort to him.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slavemaia)

Post #: 29

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:42:48 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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I have no problem with the word "training". I see so many people get caught up in anger over the phrase that they come out with statements like "I am not a puppy/horse/robot" or "I am a human being...I don't need training like an animal" or one of my all-time favorites " Why should I be trained? I've been a submissive for X years...I KNOW how to do what a submissive does".
I try to explain my views on training and then, if they still don't get it, I know that this person...no matter how great everything else is...is not going to be a fit for me.

I too look at it as not just a learning experience for the submissive but for me. I am learning to read her, to find out what Action A evokes out of her as opposed to Action B, whether repetition is the key for all acts or only certain acts, whether or not strictness is called for in cases of inappropriate behavior or a mixture of harshness and tenderness, etc., etc.. I can see Merc's point about how, in the end, BOTH must surrender to the relationship and their place in it.

I have found that the most difficult part of the whole training process is getting to the point just before where you are now, slavemaia...that point where the submissive must decide to either drop her preconceived notions of "what a master should be" and about how "fair and equal D/s relationships are...just like vanilla but more traditional (an oxymoron in and of itself)" or go on thinking that "once again, I've met someone who in reality is a bad dominant...they don't get me" when the reality is more likely that they do not get themselves. For D/s relationships are fair and equal but the fairness and equality is certainly not the type you would find in a vanilla relationship. IMHO, this is part of the problem with people on both sides of the flogger...they think that what they are entering into is just a variation on a vanilla relationship with different shadings. They are unable to see that the differences are more than just shading...and need to be to get to the heart of what D/s can be.

(in reply to slavemaia)

Post #: 30

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:53:43 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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Well, there's two versions of "training" in the D/s BDSM realm. The first is actually learning something, the second is a term that a lot of Doms use to tie a sub to a cross, wail away and then get a blow job. I admit that I snicker when I see a profile of a Dom that's looking for a "sub to train".

Training collars have their place, but I'm in line with Tammyjo's thinking. It's a nonsexual relationship with something actually being taught.

Training within a relationship happens when we actually learn something. Even something as small as how the Dom/me likes their morning coffee. Sometimes it's along the lines of "formal" training such as protocol classes.

My opinion is that people that give a training collar and then engage in a typical D/s BDSM are basically wimping out on commitment. They don't want anyone touching their toys, but don't want to step up to a long term collar either. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 31

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:59:01 AM

SimplyMichael

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I have never, would never, and will never utter the term "training collar" without contempt in my voice.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 32

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 8:02:06 AM

SirDominic

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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To me training is a journey. There is no end of the road, because it is the journey itself that is what is important. I agree with those who have pointed out that training is experienced on both sides of the whip.

And although I abhore the term "training collar", I think it is a necessary evil. A slave should wear a collar, it is the primary symbol of being owned. Yet as julia pointed out, the only collar that has any real meaning is the true collar. For me that is not given lightly or quickly. A true collar is earned over a long period of service. So I always make sure to explain to any new sub in my life, that their first collar is a training collar; and that only time, hard work/play, and the building of a powerful compatability will earn them the real thing.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 8:09:10 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

To me training is a journey. There is no end of the road, because it is the journey itself that is what is important. I agree with those who have pointed out that training is experienced on both sides of the whip.

And although I abhore the term "training collar", I think it is a necessary evil. A slave should wear a collar, it is the primary symbol of being owned. Yet as julia pointed out, the only collar that has any real meaning is the true collar. For me that is not given lightly or quickly. A true collar is earned over a long period of service. So I always make sure to explain to any new sub in my life, that their first collar is a training collar; and that only time, hard work/play, and the building of a powerful compatability will earn them the real thing.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

I agree. To me, a training collar is the equivalent of giving a "promise" ring or an "engagement" ring. It is a deeper level of commitment than just play but it is also the period of exploration of more serious issues. I too have seen those dominants...and submissives...who use the "training collar" to refer to 'learning' more sexually explicit things and while I (may) disagree with oside in that I think training in sexual pleasure can...and should...be a part of training, I do agree that it is not the main portion.

The permanent collar comes not necessarily when training is over...as I think of training as an ongoing, lifetime thing...but when the level of commitment and want for the relationship has reached that plateau wherein success as a D/s couple seems most likely.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 34

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 8:11:12 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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eom

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 1/25/2007 8:16:11 AM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 35

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 10:49:53 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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maia,

A very fine subject, well worded!

In my view a training collar is just an excuse to not go forward if something negative developes. Training used to be mentoring or guiding but over the years it simply has become an out to say "you fail" next!

If a D takes on a relationship, he/she should only do so after they have spent the time to really understand the "s"'s needs and abilities, used to be called limits.

In short "training" is grounded in anything solid.

CP

(in reply to slavemaia)

Post #: 36

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 11:05:34 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I am such a self critical perfectionist.

La Tigresse,
Be PROUD in your perfectionist ambitions! I share them. Most ambitious people have them. You only become psychotic if you forget you are human and forget you can't achieve perfection.

However, if you don't strive for perfection by definition you are striving for mediocrity. Unfortunately, striving for mediocrity will doom you to succeed in your quest.

As one of many examples I could cite; I point to our school system turning out class after class of "C" students, where "F's" are no longer allowed. When you don't demand perfection and worse remove failure from the equation everything achieved is worth less.

Better to be a pragmatic or "human" perfectionist who can laugh at themselves when they fail. Of course it is required that you spend the appropriate amount of time beating yourself up for failing. But getting that behind you, you think of a way to do it "perfect" the next time and then go out and try again. Having left school some years ago, my practical example is my golf game. A game invented to prove the impossibility of perfection whose players provide an example of the human ambition to still try in the face of that obvious fact.

PS -
THANKS for your kind words regarding my post.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 37

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 11:17:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
However, if you don't strive for perfection by definition you are striving for mediocrity.

I know we've disagreed on this before, and we're going to disagree again.

I'm a perfectionist, but not when it comes to everything. And I do many things quite excellently without striving for perfection.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 38

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 11:48:36 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
However, if you don't strive for perfection by definition you are striving for mediocrity.

I know we've disagreed on this before, and we're going to disagree again.

I'm a perfectionist, but not when it comes to everything. And I do many things quite excellently without striving for perfection.

When it comes to perfection or "winning" I try my best not to rationalize. As I said in the rest that you did not quote. I KNOW I won't get there that doesn't make me not try for it. When it comes to playing anything, or attempting anything I try to be perfect, I try to win or I don't bother.

I'm never happy with losing or failing even if my attempt was "quite excellent". Although I amuse myself quite often in my failure; particularly in those areas that are chronological age related.

100's of variations of religion in general and Christianity in particular. If you search long enough and you'll find one whose rationalizations agree with your own. If your heart is content you won't be concerned about anyone else's version.

I see no reason to challenge or try to change this disagreement between us.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: Training - what is it? - 1/25/2007 7:58:15 PM

slavemaia

Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

To ME,

When I refer to training, it is the communication of my continuing expectations and how I expect them to be met.

It may range from correcting a girl who speaks of herself or her goals and uses a self mocking tone or laugh. I expect them to be proud and positive and one can hear a lot in how one thinks of themselves by the tone in their voice. I don't want it faked so I don't push, I simply point it out to them and ask that they speak of themselves more positively.
quote:

Yes indeed. Master has corrected me on this more than once. Most of the time i know my value, but there are those times when i just feel low, unattractive etc. i feel so very fortunate to have a Master who believes as You do as well, Sir.

quote:

Something I love doing is changing the way a woman does her makeup. It strikes very deep emotionally and can be quite effective on the right woman. It might be not allowing them to wear makeup (effective at getting the attention of a woman used to using her beauty and charms) or to take one to Lancolm (with a hidden ball gag in her mouth) and after slipping a $100 to the artist, explaining to them exactly how you would like your woman to look.
quote:

Uh oh, i forwarded this post to Master. He loves the goth look and extremes at times (thus the pic W/we chose). Thank You, Michael for Your thoughtful response.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 40

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