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What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 5:46:12 AM

SlyStone

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If D/s/BDSM was to become the accepted societal norm, would vanilla become kinky?

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 5:57:17 AM

RavenMuse

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Nope, because BDSM is inclusive, vanilla is exclusive. Some maybe wonder why someone would restrict themselves in such a manner but it wouldn't have the 'stigma' or 'taboo' factor that BDSM has currently within society in general.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 6:40:11 AM

twicehappy

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Hello there sexy eyes, long time no see.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 6:42:36 AM

asassylilslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If D/s/BDSM was to become the accepted societal norm, would vanilla become kinky?

I don't think so; but then I don't see BDSM as being outside the norm.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 7:20:13 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
If D/s/BDSM was to become the accepted societal norm, would vanilla become kinky?

No. To me kinky isn't about "number of people doing it" but "what turns me on." I have lots of "vanilla kinks."

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 7:31:13 AM

mymasterssub69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If D/s/BDSM was to become the accepted societal norm, would vanilla become kinky?

not trying to turn this into a religious discussion.

however as long as the moral majority and christian fundamentalists like Oral Roberts and others thump their Bibles and denounce this as a sin - BDSM activity will never be accepted as a norm in society.

perhaps in Europe because there's more openness about sexuality but in America? ha! this nation is a prude when it comes to sex and sexual activities like BDSM.

my 2 cents

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 7:35:51 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If D/s/BDSM was to become the accepted societal norm, would vanilla become kinky?

Not in my opinion. All it would mean is that a majority of people would be engaging in kinky practices. As LA noted, it isn't the number of people involved that makes something kinky. As long as the moral and cultural "leaders" have their say, it won't matter whether 10% or 90% of the population engages in BDSM and/or D/s, it will be considered kinky and vanilla will be considered the "right" way to do things.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 1:52:34 PM

SlaveChezu

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In my opinion nothing should be normal. Normal is boring. Besides what my Master and i have is speacail and not ever normal.^.^

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 3:51:41 PM

SlyStone

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This is kind of long and boring so feel free to clink on by, I completely understand :)
I want to thank those who responded, I pretty much agree with all of you. I did have a reason for asking the question.

I define vanilla as that which appeals to the masses, what most people commonly practice and enjoy, that which is the norm. Ever since I can remember I have rebelled against being like everyone else. I have 3 brothers and every time my parents said that I should do something because that's what they" did, it was another nail in my armour of rebellion.

As an adult I have taken this to ridiculous extremes. For example I refused to see the movie Titanic even though I was bombarded at every turn by that fucking song sung by that anorexic nightingale who's name escapes me, because everyone I knew saw the movie and loved the movie and based on that I was convinced that the movie had to suck if every fucking person on the planet thought it was great and that it received the Oscar only cemented my opinion.

Ridiculous because how can one judge anything based on the reaction of others? It's stupid but what can I say, I have done stupid things in my life and am sure I will continue to.

At some point in my life I realized that I had to experience things myself in order to judge anything, not exactly a great revelation I know, but some people never get that simple concept. So rather rather than take the negative position of "it must suck because everyone is doing it" I decided to try everything, including things outside the norm, in order to come to adult decisions as to what was right for me and what was not. That is how I came to discover D/s/bdsm.

I know that part of the reason I got into D/s/BDSM was because it was not of the norm, not of the masses and something of an outlaw way to express oneself. I liked that and I still like that. I also like how it allows me to express my sexuality in a natural way without barriers. there is a lot about it I like :)

Being different appeals to me but one cannot be different just for the sake of being different or it becomes empty and silly and worse of all fake and unreal. Yet I believe there are people into this who embrace it for those very reasons. As a seeking submissive or dominant I think this is something to talk about, "are you doing this just to be different or is this as real for you as it is for me?" That conversation may save some time and grief.

I realize that there are many people here that feel that they were born to be submissive or dominant and I will not argue. I know that I am not one of you. I feel that I chose this way of expressing my sexuality because it appeals to me on many levels, one of which is my individuality and I don't think that makes me any less real than you.

Once I made the choice to get involved and learn about D/s/bdsm it was a natural progression to become a dominant, but again, while it was natural it was not somehow ordained. This is not something I have felt since being a child, this is something that I have become since being an adult. Does becoming something rather than being born to something make it any less real?

I guess I am wondering if others have gotten into this as a way to express their individuality, as a conscious choice to rebel against the norm and as a result grown from there, either as a submissive or as a dominant, or if everyone here has always felt this way but only needed a way to express it.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 3:57:14 PM

griffn

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All I can say is normal is a town in Illinois and a setting on your washing machine LOL.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/26/2007 4:15:22 PM

OedipusRexIt

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I thought this was a pretty insightful question, as originally posed by the OP.

People who are drawn to a lifestyle, pursuit of sexuality, or even a hobby, as a means of expressing rebellion or individuality aren't all that likely to admit it in these forums.

Doing so would undermine their sense of what motivates them.

It strikes me that that some who protested that they wouldn't view vanilla as the reversed kink under the OP's posited circumstances would in fact be the most likely to jump ship, as it were.

... but not because it was deemed kinky, to be sure, but rather because they're rebels, and it's important to them to be noticed as being rebellious...

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 7:39:45 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

I thought this was a pretty insightful question, as originally posed by the OP.

People who are drawn to a lifestyle, pursuit of sexuality, or even a hobby, as a means of expressing rebellion or individuality aren't all that likely to admit it in these forums.

Doing so would undermine their sense of what motivates them.

It strikes me that that some who protested that they wouldn't view vanilla as the reversed kink under the OP's posited circumstances would in fact be the most likely to jump ship, as it were.

... but not because it was deemed kinky, to be sure, but rather because they're rebels, and it's important to them to be noticed as being rebellious...

But given your statement above, it seems to me that the OP would be one of the first to jump ship as he himself noted in his long post explaining himself that a big part of the reason that D/s appeals to him is its "outside the norm, sort-of-outlaw" nature. If vanilla suddenly became what was outside the norm and considered to be the "rebellious" outlook and if his parents and family and all his friends in the vanilla world were to embrace D/s and discard...perhaps even disdain...D/s, I have a feeling that he would be back on the vanilla side. Part of my outlook comes from his rather disdainful post the other day re: those who believe in their roles in D/s and who choose to use endearments that the "outlaw" in him sneers at.

As you say...and as he himself noted...there are always those who will go to something simply because it is on the outside looking in and because it is considered to be disquieting to say the least.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 8:31:46 AM

SmokingGun82

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Who says vanilla isn't kinky now? Monogamy is just another fetish people have. So is abstinence until marriage, etcetera.

In a lot of ways, they're no different than whips and chains.

And I approach it like anything else... your kink might not be my kink, but hey, have fun with it.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 9:47:17 AM

SlyStone

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"... but not because it was deemed kinky, to be sure, but rather because they're rebels, and it's important to them to be noticed as being rebellious..."

I think for some people this is true and perhaps it is true for me. I would add that this is one factor that may go into chosing to get into this lifestyle, that is for those few of us who do not consider themselves preordained to do so.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 9:49:19 AM

SlyStone

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You may be right. If everyone is doing something my nature is to look elsewhere, but than again I do not see the world in absolute terms and would not come to any conclusion until faced with the various possibilites a given situation may offer.

It is easy to cloak oneself in a shroud of nobility here online, it is only in how we live our lives that we can truely be judged.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 1:46:20 PM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

I define vanilla as that which appeals to the masses, what most people commonly practice and enjoy, that which is the norm.

I saw something very interesting once at an event. It was held in one of those places where everyone had to keep their genitals and nipples covered, so there were a lot of thongs being worn.

Except for one girl - who wore regular briefs - with pictures of strawberry shortcake on them. And the reaction from the crowd was amazing. People were giggling (men and women) and commenting on how different they were and how cute they were and wasn't she just SO brave for wearing those there.

In a place full of leather and corsets and vests and black and all that, SHE was the kinky one - because she refused to follow the norm of that place.

So yes, I'd say that when everyone's kinky then that becomes the norm and when someone goes in the opposite direction of a norm, he or she is the kinky one.

Now...

Whether that means I'd change what I do, well, that's a whole different question and the answer is an unequivocal no. I do what I do because I enjoy what I do - not because it's kinky and not because everyone else doesn't do it.

But when a norm is defined as a level or average; a pattern; a standard, then anything that is different from that standard, average or pattern (vanilla) deviates from the norm - or in our parlance - becomes kinky. So...kinky would be vanilla and vanilla would be kinky and the entire world would be upside down. But I would still submit and I would still harbor a love of floggers, whips and paddles as part of the way I live my life.

juliet

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/27/2007 11:23:12 PM

SlyStone

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I saw something very interesting once at an event. It was held in one of those places where everyone had to keep their genitals and nipples covered, so there were a lot of thongs being worn.

Except for one girl - who wore regular briefs - with pictures of strawberry shortcake on them. And the reaction from the crowd was amazing. People were giggling (men and women) and commenting on how different they were and how cute they were and wasn't she just SO brave for wearing those there.

In a place full of leather and corsets and vests and black and all that, SHE was the kinky one - because she refused to follow the norm of that place.

I like this example Juliet and it makes me wonder.... If kinky was the norm would it become boring?

In your example that girl may be the one everyone is looking at because they are so jaded to leather gear that a girl in plain panties is a complete turn on because it is so real and so unaffected.

Some people run from the norm because it becomes just that, the norm :) so if dungeons were on every street corner and every girl was into bdsm ( yeah guys this is paradise I am talking about here) than it is quite possible that mary fucking poppins would be the sexiest bitch on the planet earth.

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RE: What Is Normal - 1/28/2007 3:49:29 AM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If kinky was the norm would it become boring?

In your example that girl may be the one everyone is looking at because they are so jaded to leather gear that a girl in plain panties is a complete turn on because it is so real and so unaffected.

Some people run from the norm because it becomes just that, the norm :) so if dungeons were on every street corner and every girl was into bdsm ( yeah guys this is paradise I am talking about here) than it is quite possible that mary fucking poppins would be the sexiest bitch on the planet earth.

lol...There was a study on that as well believe it or not.

I really do wish I could remember when and where and all that for the citation gurus amongst us, but anyway.

The study was on what determined "sexy."

A group of women were clothed from head to foot. Every now and then, all they would show is a bit of a wrist. The study found that amongst the male subjects, a glimpse of the wrist became the object of the men's desire. The wrist took on sexual and sexy significance. This was also found during the Gibson Girl era, when showing an ankle was considered risque. The best and most obvious demonstration of this in the form of movies was, believe it or not, in the comedy movie "Around the World in 80 Days" when the woman who wanted a <gasp> job as a reporter put her foot down in a low table, showing her ankle. The editor/owner of the paper got all flustered and turned away with a gasp of indignation. He gave her the job just to get her to put her leg down.

So anyway, while I don't think that what we do would become boring to some of us (bdsm has always existed in one form or another), it might lose it's zest for others. That's the way of the world.

However, when you say "jaded," I infer something distinctly negative - like we're all just so darn tired of all of what we do that it no longer interests us. And again, for those of us who live our lives around bdsm concepts, I don't think this will be the case. But for those who do this for the thrill of the taboo, the excitement of doing something that's kind of off the beaten path, then I'd have to say that they probably would move on to something different. Who knows, maybe they'll be like the people in that piece of spam that gets sent around every now and then, and sell tupperware.

juliet

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