Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (Full Version)

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GrandpaLash -> Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (3/3/2005 8:11:27 PM)

Over the years I have met and admired a number of Americans, either in r/t or on discussion boards of various kinds. On an individual level I have found Americans to be good people. But on a Government level, America terrifies me, and the way my own Government is following the Dubya line terrifies me almost as much.

This is not going to be another critique of America’s involvement (and Australia’s as part of the Coalition of the Witless) in the Iraqi war, that’s been done to death, and will no doubt be so again now that Hunter Thompson’s suicide has raised the issue again on these boards. But it is going to be a somewhat bewildered rant at the way in which the fundamentalist religious right economists have risen to power in the US, and to a lesser but still alarming extent here in my own country.

What has prompted this post is not Thompson’s apparent suicide, but the number of threads which have been deleted lately from the general BSDM discussion boards. The problem is not only at Collarme, but also at Bondage, Alt, Lavalife, and no doubt any number of other similar sites which I don’t belong to. I understand from some fairly frank posts by the Bondage management team that certain subjects are now forbidden because their Bank (and others they approached) threatens to refuse their business, thus making it impossible to collect revenue among other things, if these subjects are raised. It is so bad that even listing the subjects here in passing could get this thread removed.

One cannot even discuss the existence of these issues critically; that is, you can’t even come out against them, let alone support them or write about how to get involved in them. The political correctness has even extended to the fact that you must lie about the age at which you began your journey into BDSM if it is under certain ages – a puzzling issue, since age of consent varies so much from culture to culture.

This refusal to allow discussion is the same issue that can be shown to greatly increase the risk of contracting STDs through lack of education. The US, with it’s powerful Christian Right, is one of the worst offenders, and still has a high incidence of infections; Australia, I am happy to say, is one of the better ones in this respect, with a very low incidence of infection, and it seems clear that the highly disparate levels of public education have much to do with these differences.

Now, as I said above, I’m not interested in debating (yet again) the rights or wrongs of the Iraqi war, nor of the ins and outs of sex education. What I am concerned with is the attitudes that seem to lie behind both, and behind the absurd levels of political correctness that disallows any discussion of these ‘taboo’ subjects.

Denial is a powerful tool for self-delusion; one only has to look at the number of supposedly celibate Priests who try to deny their sexuality only to have it break out in entirely inappropriate, and often unethical and illegal fashions. Keeping people ignorant, a key theme among those who criticise the so-called education systems in place in Western culture, is a tool of power, but leads to the sort of ignorance that allows racism, sexism, and blind patriotism.

How many Westerners would be supporting the war on terror if they knew the real story, if they were taught the slightest bit about the economic imperialism and religious bigotry the West has followed in the third world and against the Islamic cultures, an economic and cultural war that has led to enormous, unnecessary poverty in non-Western cultures and an abiding anger and helplessness in the face of this overpowering economic and military strength? How many young people would be blithely promiscuous if they knew the dangers of mixing with high-risk partners?

It is especially galling on a site like this to find people who so cheerfully back the US policies when their own personal, private sexual behaviour is so at odds with the Christian moralism that is so evident in US Government circles. These moralistic prohibitions are part and parcel of the same tunnel vision that justifies economic and military warfare against the ‘others’, the arrogant belief that the US has a God-given right to manage the lesser races’ lives, and a God-given right to tell their own population what they can and cannot discuss, or do with consent and privacy.

I use the US as my exemplar here because it is the most openly fundamentalist Western Government, but the kinds of people who run this government can be found in every culture. The ayatollahs are the same breed; many of the Catholic hierarchy, throughout history (look at the Inquisition, for instance); both sides of the Irish, Israeli/Arab, Sri Lankan, Serb/Croat, and countless other religiously-driven conflicts are led by such people; the Maoists of Communist China, the Stalins and Hitlers of the last century. They are a breed, a bastard, mongrel breed, and they have always been with us.

I could find many other examples, but it is only the Western versions, and especially the US, which incorporate economic fundamentalism with religious fundamentalism, being governed currently by a bunch of ‘reptiles of uncommon greed’ (can’t remember the source of that quote unfortunately, an American nonagenarian woman of some note) whose religious leanings are as fundamentalist as their economic prescriptions. They will destroy us all, eventually.

What’s the point of this? Well, ranting and venting are an end in themselves sometimes, and that is part of it. But it was also to a small degree prompted by Mercnbeth’s thread on setting up a lobbying organisation to attempt to protect lifestylers from the excesses of public and official opinion. I suppose it is a cry (with faint hope only of any actual effect) for the members of such sites as this to actually make their money and their voices count. Show the reptiles and neanderthals that their time is past, vote them out of office, boycott them out of business. If a bank says to a site, don’t talk about these (unmentionable) subjects or we’ll close your accounts, then as members of the site remove your business from that bank and tell them why.

Many Americans on these and other boards realise that what your current government is doing is curtailing your rights to freedom of speech and private behaviour under a pretence of Security and/or Morality. Even if ideologically you are a believer in free enterprise (and I have no argument with the profit motive, just with fundamentalist versions of it) and the rights of America to rule the world for its own good (Manifest Destiny, thank you Dulles, may you rot in Hell), surely you value your own personal freedoms and rights enough to put aside our ideological differences? Yes, I am a radical (not a Liberal or a Socialist, which are two entirely different things anyway) and at the opposite end of the spectrum from Republican and Democrat ideology (which are the same thing under different names and with slightly different foci only), but we also share what I believe is a universal right to think and act as we please as long as we harm nobody else. And the freedom to discuss whatever subject we please without fear of punishment.

Grandpa Lash






Sissyslave71 -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (3/3/2005 8:54:20 PM)

quote:

Denial is a powerful tool for self-delusion


You got that right!!!!


Great points.

As an an American and a US Military veteran..I agree with most of what you have stated.

Especially about Iraq, governments, private corporations, fundamentalist christians, etc.

I'm neither right nor left.

Id define my "political" ideals as pro-liberty first and foremost.

But not the kind that comes through the military-industrial-complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

That kind of Hitlerian way of thinking is doomed for failure.





sissymaidlola -> RE: the politically awake versus the hypnotized (4/11/2005 8:11:29 PM)

quote:

can’t remember the source of that quote unfortunately, an American nonagenarian woman of some note

Hi Grandpa Lash,

What a wonderful post that deserves to be read by everyone. After ploughing through all the pathetic drivel that passes for debate and discussion on these boards it was refreshing to read this one. The person that You quoted in the title of Your OP is a wonderful 95 year old lady called Doris "Granny D" Haddock (she turned 95 on January 24 of this year). Your quoted phrase - "reptiles of uncommon greed" - comes from a speech she made at age 92 to the Citizens for Participation in Political Action in Boston, on Sept. 27, 2002. She may have used that phrase in earlier speeches but that is the one that sissy remembers. The full text of this short but marvelous speech can be read here. The title of sissy's post also comes from that speech.

"Granny D" is best known for walking across the U.S. in 1999-2000 from Pasadena, California, to Washington, DC, in order to raise funds for campaign finance reform as a reaction to the defeat of Senator McCain and Senator Feingold's first attempt to remove unregulated "soft" money from campaigns in 1995. She walked more than 3200 miles over a 14 month period at age 89 (when she started ... she turned 90 in the January of 2000 before she finished). When the presumed Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate Burt Cohen exited the race, only days before the filing deadline in June of last year, after his campaign manager absconded with hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign funds, "Granny D" surprised everyone by deciding at the last minute to step into his place and challenge the popular Republican incumbent Judd Gregg.

"Granny D" - who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and subsequently regreted that it cost Al Gore the election - is also the person that calmly suggested the following simple solution to those people on both sides of the intense debate over whether Ralph Nader should drop out of the 2004 Presidential race lest he syphon off critical votes from Kerry. Her suggested compromise was that Nader should choose the same electoral college officers as John Kerry ... that way, if he only got a small proportion of the vote (as expected), all those votes that were cast for him could automatically be applied to Kerry.

This country so desperately needs more iconic leaders such as "Granny D" to stand up against the current tide - actually more like a tsunami - of brainless fundamentalist (Christian, economic, whatever) "ditto heads" that are taking this country down a path that will cause the Founding Fathers to spin like tops in their graves. Thanks for reminding us about "Granny D" Grandpa L !! [:D]

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola


[image]local://upfiles/21203/7EF984EDD54945E8A8270BD6988A52E6.jpg[/image]




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/11/2005 10:03:29 PM)

Very nice piece.
The problem is that not enough people have decided that it is time for change.And their will never be enough to make the change by voting.
Don't quote me but I think that about 4.5% of the population fought in the revolutionary war while most of the rest did nothing to help.
Then during the civil war about 4.5% of the population fought while most of the rest of the people did nothing to help.
And when this one starts it will be the same.About 4.5% of the population are ready to do it again.It is just a matter of time....
A few things happen every once in a while that could trigger this.But it hasn't happened yet.
We can not win by voting.The whole system has been corrupted by lawyers and big money.
But I still vote for change just so that when the next war starts I will have a clear conscience that I tried to make the changes by voting.Because in war innocent good people die.And it is a shame that many will die some day just because they were uninformed and to lazy to be informed.Some call them" sheepeople."
I am not saying take up arms!I am saying this will happen in time when enough people are fed up and have made up their minds that it is the only way change can happen.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: the politically awake versus the hypnotized (4/11/2005 10:06:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola
This country so desperately needs more iconic leaders such as "Granny D" to stand up against the current tide - actually more like a tsunami - of brainless fundamentalist (Christian, economic, whatever) "ditto heads" that are taking this country down a path that will cause the Founding Fathers to spin like tops in their graves.
sissy maid lola

I agree on Grandpa's post, and your sentiment on the desperate need for Iconic leaders...
Ironic that the people who propose to save me are making me feel like I'm headed straight for hell. M




ShiftedJewel -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 7:32:03 AM)

Better?




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 8:12:00 AM)

ShiftedJewel I will give you an Amen!!!!!
You should try living in the welfare state of Maine.
I have clawed my way to the top of the heap and have a good job and house and family.If I didn't have the job that I have I would move out of state.I don't have a wife/sub/slave or kids.
We have the highest taxes in all 50 states.I could go on and on.
Our socialist state gov. patterns it's self from California.
Our air is some of the cleanest air in the country but we have the same pollution laws as Ca..Most of the dirty air that does come here comes here by way of the jet stream.
The state makes more laws to take away our freedoms and get more taxes than we can handle.Maine has never been business friendly but it is really bad now.Most people are moving out of state.A few people move here from out of state but most of the new jobs are boarder related.
We have over all a rate of 55% taxation.
I often ask people at what rate of taxation would you concider yourself to be a slave.Pun not intended. At 50%,60%,70%,80%.90% or 100%.
Most people can not answer this question.But the ones that do say we are already slaves.
Then throw in the fed. Gov. and what they are doing.
Anyway as I said ,I could go on and on but I won't because this is a BDSM site not a political site.
Yes,I am a right wing extremist by todays standards.
By the founding fathers standards I am a moderate.
I try to vote for the libertarian party or the constitution party.
One being a liberal constitution party and the other a conservative constitution party.
I even admired the female candidate for the socialist party here in Maine because she was honest about what she is.Unlike the republi-crats and the green party.





Mercnbeth -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 9:54:17 AM)

quote:

What’s the point of this? Well, ranting and venting are an end in themselves sometimes, and that is part of it. But it was also to a small degree prompted by Mercnbeth’s thread on setting up a lobbying organization to attempt to protect lifestylers from the excesses of public and official opinion. I suppose it is a cry (with faint hope only of any actual effect) for the members of such sites as this to actually make their money and their voices count.


GL,

So far and a few hundred bucks in attorney's fees, I'm still deciding which way to go with my efforts. PAC's are one method but limiting, an advocacy group is more flexible, but it requires massive numbers to get something accomplished. It's one thing to be a vocal front person, but without extensive preparation and a strong focused foundation you end up a caricature for the cause you hope to elevate. It's taken more time than anticipated, but I will not "go live" until a good platform and plan is in place.

Meanwhile, I appreciate most of what you say. I even agree with some of it. You bring up many subjects that each would require a long reply. In lieu of rehashing other matters and getting into flame inducing tangents I thought I'd address one subject of your thread that I felt was the theme - censorship.

I did some research regarding your homeland, and thought you may want to provide insight of how you (not you personally, but the Australians in general) are fighting the trend.

I remember reading of the John Howard era, and was interested at the time reading about how the Aborigine people were stripped of their rights and citizenship, as noted in the attached article. How was that resolved?

quote:

More censorship laws have been passed since John Howard was elected Prime Minister of Australia in 1996 than have ever been passed in the country's history, states Phillip Adams in the latest issue of "Index On Censorship" (04/2000) entitled "This Sporting Life". In a collection of papers on censorship in Australia compiled by Adams, a group of authors explore the history of censorship in Australia, and how censorship has been and continues to be used to uphold social intolerance present in Australian society. Adams recounts how commonplace censorship was for the first half of the twentieth century, including the banning of a wide range of literature, art and films. For nearly 70 years starting in 1901, the government also "censored" Aborigine residents from the census, stripping them of their citizenship and human rights, says Adams. While the tide turned to a more tolerant and inclusive state in the 1960s and 1970s, many of the advances made in the following decades have been peeled back since Howard's election to office.
Article: http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/27250/?PHPSESSID=bde90a911e46c832fdaaf590900efc20


This reference is more current. What I found most interesting here is that one company relocated to the US to avoid Australian regulations. Considering all the pressure that you accurately point out concerning US censorship, this move indicates to me Australia has even more repressive standards.

quote:

An Internet censorship law, in effect as of 1 January, has forced Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) to relocate its website to the United States, reports the Global Internet Liberty Campaign (GILC) "Alert" based on reports from EFA. The Commonwealth Government's Internet Censorship legislation was initially introduced in June 1999 as an amendment to the Broadcasting Services Act. While EFA states that the legislation is an improvement from the drafted legislation, it maintains that these "restrictions are still onerous, privacy-intrusive and will chill freedom of speech." The legislation includes a complaints system through which citizens can lodge complaints about Internet content, and the establishment of an independent body which "provide advice to the community about managing children's access to the Internet."

Article: http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/26136/





BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 10:11:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome
You should try living in the welfare state of Maine.
I have clawed my way to the top of the heap and have a good job and house and family.If I didn't have the job that I have I would move out of state.I don't have a wife/sub/slave or kids.
We have the highest taxes in all 50 states.I could go on and on.
Our socialist state gov. patterns it's self from California.
Our air is some of the cleanest air in the country

Wow, I didn't know these things about Maine, but I went there once for the Fryeburg fair, and felt like one of the displays; the attendees seemed a little odd (myself included I guess for going)... I felt like I was in a different country altogether. M




sissymaidlola -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 3:38:14 PM)

quote:

What is the difference between the discrimination against African Americans and the discrimination against smokers?

Well, even accepting your basic premise that smokers are actually discriminated against, which sissy doesn't, he does feel it necessary to point out here that in his personal life experience standing next to an African American or Hispanic person has never made his eyes water or caused him to cough or gag. Racism is the process of using an arbitrary criterion - skin tone or ethnic origin - as an excuse to deprive that person of their equal rights as human beings, such as equal employment or housing opportunities, or to deny access to the good tables in the restaurant, or the seats at the front of the bus.

OTOH, the laws we are now passing to curb and prohibit smoking in public spaces are because smokers as a group no longer behave with courtesy, respect and empathy towards others. Smoking is intrusive on a non-smoker's air space. Having a darker skin tone is NOT intrusive on anybody. Neither is being gay (homophobia) nor transgendered (transphobia) intrusive on anybody. The fact that you cannot recognize that difference is very disturbing and doesn't make you appear to be a thoughtful or caring person. You need to get over yourself!

If discrimination is not being permitted access to the good seats or tables in a theater, cinema, restaurant, bar, or public transportation for a completely arbitrary reason, then sissy would have to argue that until the recent bouts of legislation, non-smokers were the ones discriminated against, not smokers. A higher proportion of smokers than non-smokers tend to frequent public bars and restaurants, and being a little more indulgent of themselves than perhaps non-smokers, smokers usually spend more on food and drink. Smokers are frequently heavier drinkers and are more likely to order the extra dessert, or the third cup of coffee, etc.

Also, many people that smoke only like to do so in a social context. Because smokers are very sociable, they are often times repeat customers. Consequently, the best tables in a restaurant or bar frequently used to be the ones designated as being in the "smoking section" as that restaurant's or bar's best customers were smokers. So when a non-smoker asked to be seated in such restaurants or bars he was given a table way out back next to the kitchens, or the air-conditioning unit, or some such scenario. Now that is discrimination!

when sissy sits down in a restaurant booth or at the bar and orders a $30 - $40 meal he doesn't appreciate rancid secondhand cigarette smoke wafting up his nostrils from a smoker, or smokers, at an adjacent booth, table or bar setting. sissy Has yet to see a smoker eat AND smoke at the same time. Even smokers find smoking while eating disgusting. You only like to smoke once you have finished eating. Yet you don't offer that basic courtesy to others by asking if it is OK to smoke before lighting up. You assume it's your right. Hell, you're in a "smoking section" and you feel that gives you the right to annoy others, in the same way that a compulsive speeder feels that a passing lane on an interstate gives him the right to flaunt the speed limit that applies to everyone else and drive at 105 m.p.h.

At no point in the history of public smoking - and since this country was founded on the tobacco trade, that is pretty much the whole history of America - has a "designated smoking area" implied that you no longer have to be courteous to your fellow humans WRT smoking as you would with some other potentially unpleasant and intrusive human activities such as spitting, vomiting, urinating and defecating. Just because there are also areas of restaurants and bars that are "designated urinating and defecating areas" called restrooms does it give you a right to urinate or defecate in those areas in a manner that is annoying to others ? So why does smoking in a "designated smoking area" give you the right to smoke in a way that is not empathetic to, and respectful of, others' needs?

Smoking is not a right, it's a privilege granted to you by the tolerance and courtesy of others that are affected by your smoking. However, breathing fresh air IS a basic right!

To juxtapose your self-indulgent rant on smoking to the eloquent speech of "Granny D" or the well-argued points made in Grandpa Lash's OP was totally inappropriate. To compare the plight of modern public smokers to that of victims of hateful bigotry such as racism, was also quite offensive. And the reason that you didn't get an "Amen" when you stepped down from your soap box was because we were all too busy coughing from inhaled second hand smoke from the cigarette that you automatically assumed that you had the right to not only smoke, but also to blow the smoke in our faces.

sissy maid lola


[image]local://upfiles/21203/7550AAD373274EA8911F0BC3852D002C.jpg[/image]




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 5:41:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Personally, I am well past the age of consent and I know whether or not I want to put on a seatbelt, smoke a cigarette, or put on a helmet every time I get on our bike. I know that my kids need to be protected and I don’t need ANYONE to tell me that, let alone legislate it on my behalf! I am NOT ignorant, nor am I uneducated and am sorely tired of being treated that way.

I agree with you that the Government and the holier than thou are going too far in telling the general population how to live, and they're so thoughtful as to make up laws to generate money in case we disobedient;
I resent beiong told what to do like a retard, but I don't resent every law, because there is no mininum IQ/smarts check before one is permitted to reproduce or live in certain places; as a human being concerned about others, I believe some of these laws are necessary.

quote:

What is the difference between the discrimination against African Americans and the discrimination against smokers?

...if you're feeling so victimized by being told you can't smoke in public, maybe some psych help is in order, as I'm sure you can work it out. My advice is use some breath mints and don't tell people you smoke, and you'll be fine...
Skin color, while not a problem, when it is considered one, is not so easy to hide.
You don't understand that there is a horrible history associated with discrimination of darker people/African Americans? How does that compare with one's ability to smoke in public? When I go for a job interview, no one asks weather or not I smoke, they don't care; when they speak among each other and decide to pay me less than my counterparts with equal years experience, that has nothing to do with weather I smoke or not; When they look at me, and assume I'm "the help" despite my wearing ID badge with credentials, it's not because I smoke... This is too irritating to explain, so I'll stop.

Edited for worst part of what turned out to be foot in mouth piece. M




ShiftedJewel -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 6:26:18 PM)

quote:

You don't know what you speak of in this instance, so am going to disagree with your "I'm Not Ignorant" statement in this instance, because you got fairly ignorant while on that soapbox... Fortunately bad government hasn't removed your right to be from you. M



I never compared myself to anyone.

I should have known that one point would be grabbed and swarmed like carrion in a field of vultures while the rest where left unnoticed.
I forgot where I was for a moment... my bad.

Also, I have never once insulted you or your level of intelligence and I will not do it now.

Been an interesting ride.... but like all things, this to shall pass. Thank you for your warmth.

I'm so glad it's over.

Jewel




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 7:17:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
I never compared myself to anyone.

Maybe you should sometime, it might generate some empathy toward other members of the human race of which we all are.

quote:

I should have known that one point would be grabbed and swarmed like carrion in a field of vultures while the rest where left unnoticed.

Not exactly true, I replied to at least 2 parts of your post... This was more personal though you understand.
quote:

Also, I have never once insulted you or your level of intelligence and I will not do it now.

You compared my right to exist in peace, and be treated with the dignity I deserve with your priviledge of sucking on a cigarette in public... I may forgive your insensitivity, but don't tell me not to feel insulted by that statement/sentiment.
quote:

I'm so glad it's over. Jewel

Being noticed, and dealing with people who have issues dealing with folks of different races will never be over for me; you fortunately do have that option of letting it go and forgetting about it. M




ScooterTrash -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 7:18:03 PM)

Talk about a double standard. Where the hell do you get off on judging someone. The post was open for opinions, simply because you don't agree on the validity or that it isn't important to you personally, does NOT give you the right to call people names. I am generally polite but you simply just stepped in it! If I want to smoke in public it is MY right and if that's my opinion that's fine too. If you don't like it, well I guess you have you opinion but trying to degrade someones intelligence for it, particularly when you are in a lifestyle that promotes beating each other...well apparently your grey matter isn't functioning too well either, so perhaps ignorance is in the mirror (you started this, so hush). What some perceive as important is perhaps not the same as others, the point is it's oppression all the same. I would think that anyone that had been in the lifestyle for ANY length of time would have learned that judging anyone is wrong..but apparently some of us have learned more than others..huh. As for the other topic, I don't see color so it's not an issue, but I sure as hell can see when someone is judgemental. Perhaps some personal tweeking is in order.




ScooterTrash -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 7:35:44 PM)

quote:

Being noticed, and dealing with people who have issues dealing with folks of different races will never be over for me; you fortunately do have that option of letting it go and forgetting about it.
BTF...You obviously have no clue who you are attacking here. With two half Mexican children and a gay daughter, I think perhaps she has a better grip on this than you have a concept of, but unlike some, she worked (and still does) through it. Thanks for upsetting my household, now I can pick up the pieces. I suggest you back off.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 7:57:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
Talk about a double standard. Where the hell do you get off on judging someone. The post was open for opinions, simply because you don't agree on the validity or that it isn't important to you personally, does NOT give you the right to call people names. I am generally polite but you simply just stepped in it! If I want to smoke in public it is MY right and if that's my opinion that's fine too.

I definitely don't have a problem with people who smoke, but I will never agree that your being allowed to smoke IN Public is Similar somehow to racial injustice...
I guess I should have continued with the simplistic examples being black vs should I be able to smoke in public.
I don't smoke but don't care that people do.
I judged her miscalculation in comparing Racism to sucking on cigarettes.
You can defend her all day; as I said "In this instance" her statements showed ignorance and insensitivity to what black folks have lived and continue to live with. Having met a black person is not the same as respecting and loving a black person as you love yourself. M




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 8:06:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
lifestyle that promotes beating each other...well apparently your grey matter isn't functioning too well either, so perhaps ignorance is in the mirror (you started this, so hush). What some perceive as important is perhaps not the same as others, the point is it's oppression all the same.

You forgot to consider Safe Sane and consensual in this comment; otherwise it's called assault and battery, and may get you 20 to life depending on severity.
It is not all the same oppression sir!
Imagine my asking Jewel do you love your 1/2 mexican children more or your ability to smoke in public? If you think that question is stupid, and how could I compare her children to her smoking in public, you will have begun to understand my point... I'm not holding my breath though, while you two sit and think of how evil I've been in attacking you.
quote:

As for the other topic, I don't see color so it's not an issue, but I sure as hell can see when someone is judgemental. Perhaps some personal tweeking is in order.[/size]

I could tell that "not seeing color" statement is problematic, but....
I'm always open for personal tweeking, I wonder if you two are... If this is not a learning opportunity for you, than take it as my ability to state my opinion just as you two did.
I've just learned you are partners (you and Jewel); at least you defend her as your partner, and not because you presume to know my experience. M




onceburned -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 8:32:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
the point is it's oppression all the same. I would think that anyone that had been in the lifestyle for ANY length of time would have learned that judging anyone is wrong..but apparently some of us have learned more than others..huh. As for the other topic, I don't see color so it's not an issue


I have arrived at this thread late so I missed the post that triggered all of this heat. But if you are saying that the inconvenience that smokers face is equivalent to racial injustice.... I can not find words to describe how completely out of scale that is. I am appalled and I am not of color -- is it so hard to see why someone who has encountered racial injustice herself would be angered and insulted??

I am glad you do not see color. I used to consider that to be the ideal, too. But the fact is that color -does- matter in American society and we -do- need to consider color to see the injustices that occur.

I realize that you and ShiftedJewel are decent people with the best intent. I don't think anyone here doubts that. But please recognize when statements about race might be offensive.




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 10:07:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome
You should try living in the welfare state of Maine.
I have clawed my way to the top of the heap and have a good job and house and family.If I didn't have the job that I have I would move out of state.I don't have a wife/sub/slave or kids.
We have the highest taxes in all 50 states.I could go on and on.
Our socialist state gov. patterns it's self from California.
Our air is some of the cleanest air in the country

Wow, I didn't know these things about Maine, but I went there once for the Fryeburg fair, and felt like one of the displays; the attendees seemed a little odd (myself included I guess for going)... I felt like I was in a different country altogether. M

Maine is like another country.Just like Calfornia is a bad representaion of the counrty as a whole.It is like a country all by it's self.
When you enter the state of Maine their is a sign that says on it Maine,The way life should be.That used to be true.But decade after decade since WW2 people leave the state for a better life.The highest rate of pay for most jobs are about 15% lower than the rest of the country.Then throw in the high taxes.That doesn't leave much to live on.Between SSI and welfare the politicians are a shoe in.It is called buying votes.
The fairs in Maine are nice and old fashioned but you do meet a lot of odd people that don't get out much or know that the rest of the country and people are different.
But on the same note a lot of rich famous people vacation here and or have summer homes here because it is nice and people do not bother them.We don't care who or what they are.Maine people are very independent.

Now I guess I didn't read into shiftedjewels post like everyone else did.I took it as a rant in general about loosing freedom.I didn't see a comparison of smoking and race.
But I don't smoke and don't care if someone wants to commit suicide by smoking.My mother is in the hospital as I am typing this.She smoked for years and we couldn't get her to stop.She has 20% lungs left and when she goes home she will be on oxy.It is like a drug with most people so I look at it different than just smoke.

And I am white but have many friends and dated many different people.Black,white,asian,indian.Right now I may have a date this weekend with a woman that moved here from Russia.When I look at a person I don't see color.I see a personality.The personality defines what color they will act like.Example.I live inland so I don't have the Maine accent that you see and hear on tv and movies.That Maine accent is only on the coast.





Youtalkingtome -> RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed (4/12/2005 10:09:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome
You should try living in the welfare state of Maine.
I have clawed my way to the top of the heap and have a good job and house and family.If I didn't have the job that I have I would move out of state.I don't have a wife/sub/slave or kids.
We have the highest taxes in all 50 states.I could go on and on.
Our socialist state gov. patterns it's self from California.
Our air is some of the cleanest air in the country

Wow, I didn't know these things about Maine, but I went there once for the Fryeburg fair, and felt like one of the displays; the attendees seemed a little odd (myself included I guess for going)... I felt like I was in a different country altogether. M

Maine is like another country.Just like California is a bad representaion of the counrty as a whole.It is like a country all by it's self.
When you enter the state of Maine their is a sign that says on it Maine,The way life should be.That used to be true.But decade after decade since WW2 people leave the state for a better life.The highest rate of pay for most jobs are about 15% lower than the rest of the country.Then throw in the high taxes.That doesn't leave much to live on.Between SSI and welfare the politicians are a shoe in.It is called buying votes.
The fairs in Maine are nice and old fashioned but you do meet a lot of odd people that don't get out much or know that the rest of the country and people are different.
But on the same note a lot of rich famous people vacation here and or have summer homes here because it is nice and people do not bother them.We don't care who or what they are.Maine people are very independent.

Now I guess I didn't read into shiftedjewels post like everyone else did.I took it as a rant in general about loosing freedom.I didn't see a comparison of smoking and race.
But I don't smoke and don't care if someone wants to commit suicide by smoking.My mother is in the hospital as I am typing this.She smoked for years and we couldn't get her to stop.She has 20% lungs left and when she goes home she will be on oxy.It is like a drug with most people so I look at it different than just smoke.

And I am white but have many friends and dated many different people.Black,white,asian,indian.Right now I may have a date this weekend with a woman that moved here from Russia.When I look at a person I don't see color.I see a personality.The personality defines what color they will act like.Example.I live inland so I don't have the Maine accent that you see and hear on tv and movies.That Maine accent is only on the coast.







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