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RE: being married... - 1/29/2007 10:10:25 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Cloudboy, in other words if you make a promise or swear an oath, we should know it is rock solid for a while and then isn't.

Seems you can live with that, some of us have higher standards, clearly you don't.


God you take yourself seriously. The thing is, and I know this may come as a surprise to you, marriage and married people evolve --- neither the arrangment or the people in it are static. Dealing with change is the name of the ballgame, flexibility is an asset, not a liability.

The black and white model stuck in your head gives you certainty and arrogance, but to me it just reflects inexperience. The key to life is liking people's foibles, not castigating them for imperfections. Such castigation is a negation of our own humanity in favor detached idealism. Sorry, but I'll never buy into that.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: being married... - 1/30/2007 1:58:32 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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cloudboy: Here's a big HUG.

SimplyMichael: I know you have a right to your opinion, and no disrespect intended by me (at all) toward you by saying this - But - it seems to me of  cloudboy wasn't into committment, he would have simply left his wife years ago (she also could have left him). He (or she) certainly could have (but apparently has not), and you know nothing about his life, or how he has it arranged, or how happy anyone in it is, or is not. Apparently, it's all working okay for them. That's one way to look at it, anyway. I am not quite sure how you jumped to the conclusion cloudboy has some waning ability to commit (not that he has to defend it in a public forum - it's really nobody's business but his own). He's got a good point about the foibles, too (IMO).

Hey babe; many at CM love you for your foibles (from what I gather) - I remember that was maybe what you were aiming for when your name was CrappyDom, right? Are those days gone for good? Aren't any parts of you still Crappy? I know parts of me are, but sometimes that's okay with me (that was good natured teasing, btw).

P.S. Please don't yell at me (if you were going to, in any response). My comments are mere observations.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/30/2007 2:44:51 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: being married... - 1/30/2007 4:58:51 AM   
Dnomyar


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Joined: 6/27/2005
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Interesting post and interesting reading. Im married. Do I cheat? Yes. Do I feel remorse over it. Hell no. The woman I have affairs with all come to me. I dont seek them out. They know im married up front.  Some are married some arent. My marriage went south a long time ago. Why did'nt I get a divorce.  Shrugs sholders. Do'nt know. Will eventualy. I let what other people think bother them. I'm living my life not someone elses. People in here should do the same.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: being married... - 1/30/2007 5:53:38 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

You didnt directly blame the cheater here Merc,  but its there, in between your lines.  You are standing on high ground telling someone that if there 'reason' was valid it would still apply after the divorce or it would still apply to such an extend that they shouldnt have gotten their divorce.  Imagine a response that goes something like this  "yeah I understand your fears and your hesitation, but did you learn that in the long run it didnt matter?  Whats wrong with that?  Its compassionate, its understanding and it doesnt suggest "hey youre a cheater and you're at fault and your reasons, fears and apprehensions suck in my book, because you should have been 'strong' enough to do it right"


Marie,
In this instance there is nothing between the lines. Avoiding any reference to "excuse" and accepting all the "reasons"; after the action the consequence doesn't go away. If a person is strong enough to take the action they can and should draw upon the same strength to act upon their situation. Just as you say above.

quote:

ON EDIT: Merc:  I came back to say that perhaps you are taking the brunt for my general feeling about what im seeing on this thread.  I have strong feelings about this subject obviously, as alot of others do.  I think it's time for me to leave the massacre instead of participating in it.  If I misunderstood you, I apologize
I think you understood me; although I looked back and didn't see a reference to "excuse", except in quoting or in using it as a reference for the original point of "projecting out". The excuse/reason used not to act today will need a reaction down the line.

Don't feel "brunt-ed". Hope you don't feel picked on. No need to apologize. This is an emotional subject.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: being married... - 1/30/2007 7:26:04 AM   
Dnomyar


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Joined: 6/27/2005
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Dont be so sensitive. If you ask a question in here expect to be massacred. Your asking peoples opinions. If you don't like the opinions ignore them. Some are good and some are moronic. You will find some self proclaimed know it all's try to take them with a grain of salt.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: being married... - 1/30/2007 5:49:31 PM   
lovingcouple17


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Joined: 4/5/2006
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my father was a very violent man.  my mother left him once and he almost killed her, so she stayed.  When i was a young teen i found out she was having an affair...and i helped her with the secrecy of it...as i was so glad to have her happy...she stayed for me...because to leave meant death and she stayed for her only daughter...

i find this very different than staying, say for materialistic reasons...but BDSM is a different sort of lifestyle...and i try very hard not to judge people.  Cheating is cheating...but it's between you and your conscience...some say on line is not cheating... :) some say it is....it's a totally different debate...but there are ways to justify everything in the world...life if short...may everyone have their little piece of happines....

sebrina....

_____________________________

Only in a collar can a woman be free.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 9:30:27 AM   
Dartantris


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Joined: 1/31/2006
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Well, it all depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? I view someone who has developed a relationship with another person and found that they have romantic feelings different than a serial cheater. I would expect a married person who has fallen in love with someone other than their spouse to end the relationship with either their wife or new love. Honesty is important but something like divorce can be difficult and may take time. The most honorable thing to do would be to discontinue the relationship until you are divorced.

(in reply to krista)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 9:42:40 AM   
ShibariMistress


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Joined: 1/20/2007
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This is a little off topic, but if your dad almost killed your mother when she tried to leave him WHY THE HELL WOULD SHE GO BACK!  Why would she subject her kids to living with a father who abused their mother.  I have heard all the answers,  "I dont have enough money, I dont have a job, I dont want to leave all my mementos in the house, I have a financial stake in the home or business, blah, blah, blah."  It is all bullshit excuses.  Change your name, move out of state, get a personal protection order, do not call old friends or acquaintences, press charges against the man.  There are lots of good books on how to disappear, and if you fear for your life and dont want your kids to grow up in an unloving and abusive household, you do what you gotta do.  I get tired of seeing women come in beat up by their partners, give them all the info on how to leave and keep themselves safe only to see them a few weeks later with the same lame excuses about why they couldn't leave. 

(in reply to lovingcouple17)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:13:06 AM   
amuzingtoyou


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I don't know how old  lovingcouple is...but 20 years ago it was not so easy to just up and leave an abusive husband. There were no such things as protective orders, and police would say it was a domestic dispute and look the other way. 20 years ago women didn't have as many options as they do today. Often women of that generation married right out of high school and had no means or education to support themselves. Having spent the better part of 7 years working with abused women, I can tell you first hand its not for us to judge why someone would go back to an abusive situation. The fear that is put into these women is hard to understand to the everyday observer. They are stripped of everything. Most often isolated from friends and family and have no self esteem. She did what she felt was best at the time. I hope she eventually got out of that abusive situation. Its so easy for us to sit and point fingers, not being in that exact situation.

(in reply to ShibariMistress)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:16:19 AM   
Dnomyar


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Joined: 6/27/2005
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A personal protection order is'nt worth the paper it is printed on. Like pressing charges is going to change how an asshole thinks. There are woman shelters avaliable. What good is a book on how to disappear if you cant afford to buy it or dont have transportation to go get one. For a maried woman with kids and no one to turn to it is very hard. For a single woman who keeps going back becuse he will change they deserve what they get.

(in reply to ShibariMistress)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 12:14:27 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Interesting post and interesting reading. Im married. Do I cheat? Yes. Do I feel remorse over it. Hell no. The woman I have affairs with all come to me. I dont seek them out. They know im married up front.  Some are married some arent. My marriage went south a long time ago. Why did'nt I get a divorce.  Shrugs sholders. Do'nt know. Will eventualy. I let what other people think bother them. I'm living my life not someone elses. People in here should do the same.


Right. Because your actions never affect anyone else.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 9:46:35 PM   
Wildnfreehrt2004


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texancutie

Thank you Cloudboy, SusanofO and velvetears.  Very compassionate and well thought out posts.  I know that many people in BDSM consider themselves to have an open mind and are nonjudgemental, because they know that society as a whole usually views BDSM in a very dim light.   But the truth is many who are actively participating in this do not appear to have much of an open mind at all, unless it is a view or lifestyle they personally practice or participate in.  Many apparently are not able to see the big picture.

We are not in every person's house every day or night of the week to see what goes on, or what does not go on there.  And if the moral police are out there on these boards, well....talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  Meaning people in glass houses should not throw stones.  I am sure we all have done some things we are not proud of at times in our lives, and some of us will continue to do them.  We are human after all.  Life is too short to be miserable, so people do what they can to lessen what is a difficult situation, whatever it is.



Values like honor, integrity, honesty, commitment are not easy values to have. They demand difficult choices. To uphold those values means doing the right thing, even at expense of yourself and your desires. The last time I checked, they were all or nothing. They are not values that lend themselves to part time use, or have different meanings for different circumstances. They are the ultimate black and white - you have them, or you don’t. Those values aren't easy - that's why they have value or are valuable. We all slip at times, no one is perfect…We are human, we are allowed to slip, and that is how we learn. It’s what you do when you slip that tells the strength of your character. Do we compromise our values for short term gratification? Or do we choose to strive to keep those values again? Do we justify and rationalize our slips, or do we take responsibility for our choice, be honest, accept the consequences and make a better choice?

Bottom line, our lives are a culmination of the choices we make. If you don’t like your life, you make different choices, you are an adult. No one can trap you or keep you from making different choices unless you permit it (or are kept chained up and not physically able to leave). If you aren’t happy in a platonic marriage, then divorce and still be friends. If you want to honor the wedding vows you took till death do you part, then honor the vows of fidelity “forsaking all others” – sexually and emotionally as well as love, honor and cherish. You vowed everything to that one partner – live up to it or change it. Don’t lie and say you are looking for happiness or understanding when all you want is sexual satisfaction and you wouldn’t choose someone who makes you happy or understands you if you found one. If you stay for financial reasons, then honor the partner who slept in your bed, shared your name and your wedding vows while the money was earned, split it up – money can always be made/earned again. IT’S ONLY MONEY!  If it’s for the children – then teach your children how to be happy by example – live it, teach them they don’t have to be trapped by bad choices, they can choose another outcome. Studies prove children don’t turn out worse from parents divorced. If you want a bigger sexual menu, then be single and sample all the variety you want! If you really believe in till death us do part, hurry up and die, what are you waiting for? If your partner isn't honoring their vows, you still have the choice of being honest and open about supplementing your life with another person or leaving.

What choices can you live with? AND accept all the responsibilities and consequences of? Staying is also a choice. I've found that there are generally three solutions to any situation - leave it the way it is, change it, or get out.


I choose integrity, honor, dignity, respect, honesty etc  in my  life and choose to associate with others that demonstrate the same qualities. If a person who also happens to be married demonstrates those qualities (ie open and honest communication and consent with all parties involved), that's within the acceptable parameters that I have chosen, though it doesn't mean I will have a Ds or bdsm relationship with them. I'm not perfect, but I strive to be a better me. Notice, I did not say better than anyone else. I support everyone's right to make the choices that are best for them - while I support my right to choose who I want to let into my personal life.

Yeah the yardstick is a lil high - but that's a choice I can live with.
Wildy

Our lives are defined by the choices we make - what will your choice be?

(in reply to texancutie)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 9:58:02 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
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That is correct and we all make our own choices in life.  There are a number of married couples in the local community here that scene with other people, or have their own sub or Dominant.  Everyone is aware of what is going on.  I guess in that situation it would be considered poly?  Or not?  But these folks do not live with anyone other than their respective spouse.  I have heard so many different views on this.  Anyway, I just say to each their own.  I am not a fly on their ceiling watching what they are all doing, nor am I the local moral police officer.  Interesting thought though, because if there were such people, they might be saying what you are doing is wrong.  It's all a matter of beliefs and perspective.  And we are all free to disagree, as much as we are free not to judge others.  

(in reply to Wildnfreehrt2004)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:05:23 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?


Would you feel more secure with a Dom/sub that has been in a relationship for sometime or someone that has had a series of short term relationships?

I think Twice could jump in here with some good insights if she was awake.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to rubyleu)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:14:07 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
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Hmmmm...re-reading this....how did it get to me not liking my life and things.  I love what I have now.  Anyone that reads my journal can tell that.  I am collared anyway, and I am not the OP.  I was just commenting that what 2 or more people do consensually together is really none of my business.  I am not a card carrying member of the moral majority.  

Also BDSM is not  necessarily a romance novel where everyone is looking for their "One".  Though it is nice when that does happen for people.  BDSM is also about service, and is not necessarily sexual for every single person that does this.


< Message edited by texancutie -- 1/31/2007 10:19:28 PM >

(in reply to Wildnfreehrt2004)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:16:26 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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texancutie, didnt I see you at the secret card carrying moral police-persons ball?

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to texancutie)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: being married... - 1/31/2007 10:20:06 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
God I hope not.  I think they would blacklist me.  

I just can't spell tonight...lol.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: being married... - 2/1/2007 8:18:06 PM   
Wildnfreehrt2004


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texancutie

Hmmmm...re-reading this....how did it get to me not liking my life and things.  I love what I have now.  Anyone that reads my journal can tell that.  I am collared anyway, and I am not the OP.  I was just commenting that what 2 or more people do consensually together is really none of my business.  I am not a card carrying member of the moral majority.  

Also BDSM is not  necessarily a romance novel where everyone is looking for their "One".  Though it is nice when that does happen for people.  BDSM is also about service, and is not necessarily sexual for every single person that does this.



OOOps - quoted part of your post, but mine was in no way directed at you personally - sorry for any confusion!

(in reply to texancutie)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: being married... - 2/1/2007 9:23:50 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?


Without the SO's knowledge is cheating. Cheating = lying, lying = untrustworthy, untrustworthy = lack of control, lack of control = danger.

Therefore you have a person looking for kinky sex which should not be equated with lifestyle people.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to rubyleu)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: being married... - 2/2/2007 4:35:25 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline
Hiya cutie . Your at the top of my list.  

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 280
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