submissive v. passive (Full Version)

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Shayna -> submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 5:27:46 AM)

As I'm dating subbie boys, and as a newish Domme, I've been thinking about what submission means to me and what it is I'm really looking for in a submissive boyfriend (not just play partner). Some seem to say they are submissive but to me I'd say more that they are passive, using submission as an excuse to not take responsibility for relationships. For example, he looks to me to take all the emotional risks as we're getting to know each other - I am the one to talk about how I"m feeling and if I enjoyed our date and when I want to get together next, etc. But to me there should be a proactive aspect to submission that I think should exist - where the subbie is asking himself...and me...am I pleasing her? What does she want from me? What can I do to make our date fun? Proactively letting the Domme know that he had a good time and is excited about how things are going.

Or am I totally off? Do I call all the shots, make the plans, set the dates, decide when it's time to check in about our feelings, etc.? When first getting to know someone that you want for more than a play partner, it's not an easy thing to know when it's time to just grab the reins (so to speak), or does this just show my newb-ness? [:)] Any thoughts?




quietkitten -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 5:52:06 AM)

I am experiencing this from the other side right now.

I have recently met my Mentor, and I am having some problems knowing what I should and shouldn't be doing/saying etc. I am never sure if I am crossing the line when I make suggestions or voice an opinion. He is very good to me and has told me that if either of us needs to stop the scenario and talk frankly we just need to say the word "break". Either of us can use it if we need to clarify something outside of the scenario, and it has helped a lot.
Your sub may just not know how much input you want from him. Tell him how you feel, and come up with a way to tell him you need to communicate outside of the scene going on, it might help.

I hope I made some sense, lol



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 6:25:03 AM)

It's all about management style.

Some are micromanagers with the philosophy of "don't do anything unless I specifically tell you" and some are delegators with the style of "keep doing what you're doing unless I specifically stop you" and most are a mix of styles.

Personally, I think its my job to make the Owners life easier, and him having to micro manage me would defeat that purpose. I also think it's more healthy and functional for a slave to be active and not just reactive.

In the end, it comes down to your personality meshing with theirs and training them in the way you see fit.



slave4mzpatti -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 7:19:33 AM)

Speaking as a submissive and learning from my experience it would seem to me a lot would depend on his level of experience. If he has none then I guess it would be up to you to tell him what you expect.
salve4MzPatti



nightmans -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 8:01:17 AM)

my self your tell him if you happy or not with him so it's not that he is not offering his input you giveing it maybe tell him what he think and see what happen. but if your upset your sub need to know that or thay will never change and you will not be happy. that just this sub point of view



onceburned -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 8:24:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna
Some seem to say they are submissive but to me I'd say more that they are passive, using submission as an excuse to not take responsibility for relationships.
<snip>
Or am I totally off? Do I call all the shots, make the plans, set the dates, decide when it's time to check in about our feelings, etc.?


No, you are not totally off. If you want your sub to be proactive, then that is the right thing for you.

The subs you refer to may just be paralyzed by not having a clear idea of how to act. They might be trying to give up male privilege (initative and setting up the actions of a relationship) and clueless about how to tend to your needs. It could be that these subs are new, or it could be that they are unimaginative. If you want to take the time to educate them as to your wants and needs it might help.

Personally I agree with your statement that the sub should be proactive and find out how he can please you.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 3:18:33 PM)

quote:

Some seem to say they are submissive but to me I'd say more that they are passive, using submission as an excuse to not take responsibility for relationships.


I'd say you are right on the money here. I had a "submissive" collared for a year and a half and I finally had to tell her that she isn't submissive. But she was very pro-active and never had any difficulty speaking her mind. She was only passive around me. How do I know otherwise? Because of the hundreds of times she would have to come to me and tell me to expect an email from Mistress (choose a nic here) or Master (who knows) because they had told her they would be sending one to report her horrible behavior in their chatroom, to them personally or to someone else and they had witnessed it.... I never got the emails, but I did get the details, doctored a little I'm sure, but enough to know that she was the type that needed to be "babysat". I tried everything, I told her how badly that reflected on me and it would stop for a bit, but only a bit. I think she really wanted to be submissive but it just wasn't "her". We parted friends and she found another Mistress.... about a year later her new Mistress and I were talking and she said, "I don't see her as a submissive." Bless her heart, she keeps trying.

So, yes, I do believe there are some that identify with the orientation of submissive, but whether or not they are is a whole 'nother animal.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 5:43:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna
proactive aspect to submission that I think should exist - where the subbie is asking himself...and me...am I pleasing her? What does she want from me? What can I do to make our date fun?

Or am I totally off? Do I call all the shots, make the plans, set the dates, decide when it's time to check in about our feelings, etc.? When first getting to know someone that you want for more than a play partner, it's not an easy thing to know when it's time to just grab the reins (so to speak), or does this just show my newb-ness? [:)] Any thoughts?

I'm fairly new too, and I'm having the same Dilemma; thus far, I've attributed a few missed connections to lack of "chemistry", but I'm not really sure what's a good way to proceed as each person is different, each likes different levels of attention, and each is active/passive in his approach to connection...

Some people like being called, some people like to do the calling; I prefer he call, but some say they want me to lead, and If I lead by making him call, than am I domming him without yet attaining his consent?
Recently a sub told me he went along with another, because she called, I told him I had expected him to call more and show more interest, end result, neither of us got what we wanted (well he seems to want me to steal him away, another trust issue completely).

I'm sorry, I'm rambling about understanding where you're coming from, and I really have no good answer here to help you, other than, for me, I ask a guy how he usually proceeds, and what he is comfortable with. M



Morghan -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 9:23:06 PM)

I am *solidly* in the camp with Emerald. I prefer my potential sub/slave make my life easier by taking on things that are a nuisance to me. He is happy by serving, I am happy by being served. Now where you're talking about a dating scenario its a little different. A submissive can easily be too passive for you if he is afraid of overstepping boundaries. Whether you choose to enforce a framework for communication (a journal, an online blog, a weekly phonecall) or simply encourage discussion depends on the chemistry between you two. However, being new I would highly reccomend structured times or media for the process of getting to know each other. Once you know each other well, you will be able to anticipate when each other is in need of that touching base process. This stuff is hard work [:)]

~Lady Morghan



Shayna -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 10:22:37 PM)

Thanks to everyone for their responses and input - much appreciated. Nice to know I'm not alone :)






BeachMystress -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/4/2005 10:44:28 PM)


You are the Domme and you set what is expected in your relationship. If the sub is unable or unwilling to meet your needs, you move on to the next. It may take a while to find the one who fits your needs, but they are out there.

I think part of your confusion may be that you're not quite sure what your role in the relationship is.. and that is normal when you're new. You also don't know which traits show the male is submissive vs him wanting to be submissive on his terms and when he wants. That only comes with time. Your best way to get what you want is to sit down and think it out. What traits does your "ideal" submissive have? Is there some physical thing you desire? {Blue eyes? A penis less than 5 inches, over 8 inches? (those are the ones to be most flexible about, but if you have a pre-requisite, aim for it)} What personality traits do you want in your sub? {Honest, kind, good sense of humor, prompt, loyal, thoughtful...} What behaviours do you want? {Takes responsibility for planning outings or lets you totally decide? Opens doors for you? Walks slightly behind you? Looks for ways to make your life easier or does nothing without your permission? Do you want to control his bedtime, eating habits and such, or do you want to trust his own judgement with you sometimes over riding him? Do you want to control the times he contacts you, or do you want to leave that to chance and hope he calls?}

After you have your three lists, you're ready to look for your sub. You don't need to communicate what you want physically or personality wise, but you MUST communicate what you expect as behaviours. If you don't direct them, they'll stumble around following what their idea of submission is; and that isn't what we're striving to get. They are to be following your idea of submission.

You are allowed to take as much control of your sub as you wish. There is a sub out there who will fit what you want.

Now, for the time to grab the reins.. it is when you want. The first time I met my sub, he invited me to spend more time together. After that, I was the one who instigated getting together.



BeachMystress -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/5/2005 10:29:02 AM)


Oh, another thought.. Rather than looking for someone who is either "submissive" or "passive," look for a "pleaser." These are people who may or may not be submissive but really get personal joy from making others happy. They are the ones who will actually try to figure out what your heart desires and give it to you. I've been lucky enough to find a submissive pleaser and am happily surprised at the fulfilling nature of our relationship .



AAkasha -> RE: submissive v. passive (3/7/2005 3:23:18 PM)

There is nothing wrong with wanting a submissive who also happens to be assertive and knows how to court a woman.

There are a lot of men out there that have fairly assertive personalities and hold a lot of power in their jobs, etc., and they will be the first to tell this to you. You need to let them know that you expect them to show initiative and not rely on you to do all the work, and you like a man that craves having his power taken away, not a man with no power.

Some subs seek dominant women because they are too shy or fear rejection. Their dream is that a dominant woman will come along and seduce them and therefore take away all the risks of emotional pain through rejection or disinterest. They want a woman to make the first move sexually so they don't have to wonder if they are right or wrong.

Personally, I have had no problem being the aggressive one in a relationship, especially when it comes to intimacy, sensuality and sex. I have always initiated the first kiss and often been the one to make the first move by approaching a man and asking him out or giving him my phone number.

However, I lose interest if he is not able to at least show the same initiative on his side. He should know how to ask a woman out, how to select a suitable place for a date and how to behave like a gentleman. Men that just sit back and wait for me to do everything get boring quickly.

Akasha



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