RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary

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Sanity -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 9:13:59 AM)
Not true. What about all the air-conditioned server rooms where the messages sit? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Does needlessly running a computer count? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver There are people who will consume as if their life depended on it even if they knew their consumption would spin the world in the morning. All my energy is renewable.

meatcleaver -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 9:17:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Not true. What about all the air-conditioned server rooms where the messages sit? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Does needlessly running a computer count? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver There are people who will consume as if their life depended on it even if they knew their consumption would spin the world in the morning. All my energy is renewable. One can only clean ones own toilet and that is precisely why government has to stop pretending the market can solve the problem.

Sanity -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 9:26:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver One can only clean ones own toilet and that is precisely why government has to stop pretending the market can solve the problem. Websites like this one waste a lot of energy, especially because server rooms need to be air conditioned and what's done here isn't needed, it's Luxurious. Just like SUVs are. Wasteful, and unnecessary. SO. Are you demanding the government shut it down, or is it only supposed to shut down the Luxuries that are on YOUR list.

meatcleaver -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 10:54:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity SO. Are you demanding the government shut it down, or is it only supposed to shut down the Luxuries that are on YOUR list. Nothing needs to be banned but the proper price has to be paid for the damage something causes. Yep. That means people will have to make choices as to what they want to buy with their money but making choices now and no choice later is the best choice. The idea that the enviroment is a free resource is soon going to be something of the past. We might as well get used to it.

juliaoceania -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:08:14 AM)
quote: Sorry julia but if you think Al Gore is any more credible than any of those names or business's that you listed...ummmmmmmmmm. Al Gore has more credibility, but that is not saying much, the oil boys have no credibility. Now if you WATCH the video, and see who Al Gore references as his sources, well his sources have much more credibility. In one of my climate courses this was argued about, scientific veracity of those claiming there was no global warming, and the professor issued this challenge to those who insisted either 1) there was no such thing as global warming or 2) that is was not due to anthropomorphic causes, to bring in a study not funded by oil, guess what, no one could find such a study because they do not exist. Every independent scientist that has studied the issue has come to the same conclusions, that the planet is warming, that the last few years have been the hottest on record, and this corresponds with the highest levels of CO2 in the atmosphere ever recorded in the ice record. Now you may not believe this to be true, you can believe anything you like, but guess what, it really does not matter what any of us "believe" because in my opinion it is too fucking late. In order for us to have had any real impact on the impending gloom and doom, we would have had to have acted about a decade ago.. basically we are fucked... or should I say my son's generation is fucked. Now I hope that you are right, that I am chicken little, and I have no cause to think the sky is literally falling... but unfortunately I am probably correct... it sucks to be right in cases like these. So while you may think I am totally against your view based on Big Oil propaganda... omg, I hope you are right! This is one occasion that I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be proven wrong.

Sanity -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:14:16 AM)
So you and Al Gores' plan is to make transportation, heat, batteries, computers, internet chatrooms, and anything else that requires any resources at all far too expensive for the poor. That's how you're going to save us all from ourselves. quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Nothing needs to be banned but the proper price has to be paid for the damage something causes. Yep. That means people will have to make choices as to what they want to buy with their money but making choices now and no choice later is the best choice. The idea that the enviroment is a free resource is soon going to be something of the past. We might as well get used to it.

starshineowned -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:16:36 AM)
Yes, I strongly disagree with Al Gore being more trust worthy. Maybe compared to a sleazy snake he might win. I don't believe I stated that Global Warming is or is not happening. Think I plainly showed that it has happened 4 times now, and to try and attempt to state that Humans 10,000 yrs ago (how many were there?) and further back were the cause of Global Warming with their mass CO2 outputs is a load of crap. Global Warming is a natural occurrence for what ever earthly reasons it needs to do it, and no amount of piddly ..oh I'm awesome humans are going to change that..prevent that, delay that, stop that. And just incase I didn't make it clear the first time..Al Gore is a schmuck! Let me add on though ..It is one thing to run around the country side attempting to show great concern for the welfare of the human race, and point out assumed causes. It is entirely another thing to actually Do something about it besides flap your damn gums. So in that case..guess Al is the man for the job. Well Wishes starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

juliaoceania -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:23:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: starshineowned Yes, I strongly disagree with Al Gore being more trust worthy. Maybe compared to a sleazy snake he might win. I don't believe I stated that Global Warming is or is not happening. Think I plainly showed that it has happened 4 times now, and to try and attempt to state that Humans 10,000 yrs ago (how many were there?) and further back were the cause of Global Warming with their mass CO2 outputs is a load of crap. Global Warming is a natural occurrence for what ever earthly reasons it needs to do it, and no amount of piddly ..oh I'm awesome humans are going to change that..prevent that, delay that, stop that. And just incase I didn't make it clear the first time..Al Gore is a schmuck! Well Wishes starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin Your views on Al Gore have really no interest to me, they have no bearing on this discussion, and they do not refute the scientific evidence.

starshineowned -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:28:31 AM)
Nor do yours, and when you can show real scientific evidence that isn't politically motivated ..let us know okay. Till then..please stop driving your vehicle or buying any consumer products that keep industrys in business to continue to mass pollute our air with unGodly co2.. Thankyou and have a great day On top of that..please explain and share with us how Global Warming happened when there weren't humans about creating this co2? Then you might gain a ear. Well Wishes starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

sleazy -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:40:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Every independent scientist that has studied the issue has come to the same conclusions, that the planet is warming, that the last few years have been the hottest on record, and this corresponds with the highest levels of CO2 in the atmosphere ever recorded in the ice record. There aint no such animal as well funded independent scientist (or politician). However a group called CLIMAP have data supporting global cooling, try http://spd-web.terma.com/Projects/climap/ for a list of particpating organisations (Exxon and Shell dont appear oddly enough) When do these records for hottest year ever begin? Here in the UK it is generally 1914. Anyone fancy a guess as to the temparture on 4th may 1243 BC? How old are the ice sheets? (x) How old is the planet? (y) What percentage of y is x? Is this a large enough number to be considered of statiscal significance? Does the fact the planet has had more than one period in time where ice was prevelant make a difference? Is it fair to assume that the reason much of this ice in the past melted was down to global warming at the time? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet.htm http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1806 (refers to survey by NASA)

WyrdRich -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:44:15 AM)
Easy solution... Everybody who believes that climate change is a result of human activity producing C02, stop breathing and we'll see what happens. Are there by chance, any gaps in that ice record, say when the climate might have been warm enough that no ice lasted? A sample set of 'one' is meaningless and that is all we have to look at. There was another looming climate disaster we were all supposed to be afraid of 20 odd years ago, anybody remember 'nuclear winter?' Maybe there is going to be a nice balance achieved.

meatcleaver -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:50:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity So you and Al Gores' plan is to make transportation, heat, batteries, computers, internet chatrooms, and anything else that requires any resources at all far too expensive for the poor. That's how you're going to save us all from ourselves. No. You pay the true price for what you consume. No free lunches. You can't be more American than that can you? For example. If the government said that all houses had to be carbon neutral when built, there wouldn't be a problem and the poor would be better off too. I haven't noticed people who drive around in SUV's etc being concerned about the poor before.

Real0ne -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Every independent scientist that has studied the issue has come to the same conclusions, that the planet is warming, that the last few years have been the hottest on record, and this corresponds with the highest levels of CO2 in the atmosphere ever recorded in the ice record. Julia, the thing that bothers me frankly is how a gas that i have always believed to be nearly transparent to the transmissivity of light can cause warming. The initial thought i have is in order to cause heating it would need to absorb the light rather than pass it through. Carbon on the other hand as you see in the form of black smoke from these big smoke stacks is another thing entirely and definitely would cause heating through absorbtion. After painstakingly watching gore, i really dislike the guy LOL, but i do not dismiss his message based on who or what he is but rather my own convictions in science, i think the thing in question is if man is causing a significant and abnormal increase in temperature as a result of whatever that is above and beyond nature or the natural warming going on right now. So it gets tough to determine at least for me how much is natural warming and how much is man induced. So i looked for some data on it and here is what i came up with. http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm i just grabbed one of the first ones that came up with lots of data and charts, glanced it over and thought i would post here for you to lok at. Do you agree with any of these charts in as much as do they agree with your charts?

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 11:56:32 AM)
they call me scrooge around here always going behind cutting off lights etc.We are installing a low water toliet and a on demand propane water heater.OUR new home will be post and beam stuffed with insulation and solar pannels. and berm on 3 sides YES its expensive but the return on investments are quick...Pay as you go and take it slow is our motto AN old hippy a mother earth kind of guy WILLIAM

Real0ne -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:05:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER they call me scrooge around here always going behind cutting off lights etc.We are installing a low water toliet and a on demand propane water heater.OUR new home will be post and beam stuffed with insulation and solar pannels. and berm on 3 sides YES its expensive but the return on investments are quick...Pay as you go and take it slow is our motto AN old hippy a mother earth kind of guy WILLIAM why a berm?

sleazy -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:21:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne why a berm? Earth is a damn good thermal insulator and as low financial cost and is not manufactured from anything too nasty

Real0ne -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:22:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne i didnt make a debate type statement either way really but you know me i am really easy to drag into a debate... Yes, but contributing to the debate is the trick. Thats no fun, its more fun just to kill the messenger despite the message! joking of course! LOL i do agree btw that it is getting warmer every year. i just do not know how much is from nature and how much is from man, and i do not know how to make that determinations with resaonable accuracy... Hoping there is a crash course someone can give me.

juliaoceania -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:25:28 PM)
There are about 20 charts on here that cover differing aspects of heat island affects, solar energy, to US temperature.. which chart in particular would you like me to focus upon? Do you know anything about carbon sinks? We are removing them at an astonishing rate. This is impacting planet Earth's ability to regulate temperature.

Real0ne -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:32:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania There are about 20 charts on here that cover differing aspects of heat island affects, solar energy, to US temperature.. which chart in particular would you like me to focus upon? Do you know anything about carbon sinks? We are removing them at an astonishing rate. This is impacting planet Earth's ability to regulate temperature. Carbon sinks? no, i assumed that rain dragged it to the ground as well as gravity over time. Not true? well i was thining in terms of if their charts matched the ones al gore was using, which would then beg the question as to how they would come to opposite conclusions. i do know water levels have risen a bit in venice, that much research i did do, because i felt that would be the first place to have problems and they are.So that link that iposted feels that it was cooling but that is from 1998 and the venice thing was last year so i dunno. thinking about carbon however it seems to me cleaning up carbon emissions would be pretty easy and cheap to accomplish.

popeye1250 -> RE: Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore Documentary (1/28/2007 12:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Not true. What about all the air-conditioned server rooms where the messages sit? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Does needlessly running a computer count? quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver There are people who will consume as if their life depended on it even if they knew their consumption would spin the world in the morning. All my energy is renewable. One can only clean ones own toilet and that is precisely why government has to stop pretending the market can solve the problem. I don't think that "government" can "solve" this "problem." Is there an organisation more inept than government? Ah,....I think there is! The "United Nations" is the absolute best example of ineptitude! I don't know why anyone could possibly want to get that gang of layabouts involved in this "problem." They'd probably discuss it around high tea and demand taxpayer dollars to "fix" it like that money scam they call "Kyoto." I hope that Cofi Anan guy went back to Ghana or wherever he came from. Whenever someone mentions "Global-Warming" and "United Nations" in the same sentence it takes any credibility thay may have had away. You think they'd realise that by now.

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