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taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 4:29:21 PM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		A few years ago my Husband and i discovered the pleasure of s/m play in our sex life.  In the last couple of years we have added d/s into our sexual relationship and i am longing to incorporate it into our day-to-day routine as part of our lifestyle, a need that He understands and is willing to work towards.  He has set one rule to start with, which i have been careful to meet, but i desire much more.  We seem to slip in and out of our d/s roles and i feel the need to live it regardless of mood or any other excuse.   We are both happiest when i am submissive to Bruce, when he is dominating me instead of treating me as an equal, when he is telling me to do something instead of asking me, when he is my Master.  It is something that fills a part of me and that i am miserable without but my pride and lazyness fights with my desire, so if He doesn't enforse His dominance we just slip back into a vanilla relationship (which leades us to less closeness, less sex, more arguments & general crankyness.)  It is more driven by my need to submit and be mastered than on His need to dominate so i find myself longing to beg him to take control, to demand submission from me, yet embarrassed or too pride at time to do it & hating that i have to ask yet understanding that He is learning as i am.
i guess i don't really know what i am asking.  i would love advise on how to incorporate this in our day to day lives as well as to hear of others experiences.  He is my Master and it pleases me to serve Him and make Him happy, and i long for Him to demand it of me - so any advise also on how to encourage that would be appreciated!  as you can see... the desire is here, but the experience isn't.  Thank you in advance for any responses.
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 4:36:21 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Is there a reason that you think a dominant has to be demanding in order to be dominant?

My Lord asks me to do things all the time or expresses a desire he has.  It is his way of communicating what he wants.  Whatever he asks of me, I will do and I will do my best to fulfill his wants.  It is rare for him to get demanding in his instructions.  However, he has no less authority because he phrases it as a question rather than barking an order.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 4:47:54 PM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm...maybe demanding was the wrong word.  We used to be a "typical" married couple in that we "shared" all cleaning duties and never stepped over the line of being equal and fair.  We're both sick of that know that we love our changing relationship but it is quite the learning process.  i still find myself slipping into that role and times and don't want Him to allow it, to take anything but submission and respect from me.  Does that make more sense?

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 4:51:58 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
One thing, other than the obvious talk about this with him, is to focus more on "what can I do with this energy to make his life easier?"  It's easy to get into the pattern to sit around like an eager puppy just ready to leap for the next scene or order to be given- but try getting into a pattern of being busy and actively seeking ways to do things together.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_640054/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#640068
Eliciting a more "domly" response from my master?
http://www.collarchat.com/m_485338/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#485816
A vaguely confusing question

I'd suggest these threads:
http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=411305&mpage=1&key=eager%2Cpuppy&#411339
Not much of a dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_321594/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#321737
Master doesn't want to play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_269547/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#269558
He's a switch, I'm a sub, help!


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 4:56:32 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying but I do not understand the thought process.  I have heard it from others so it isn't just you.  But there seems to be this idea that a dominant has to make a submissive submit or take them in some fashion. 

My Lord does not take what is not freely offered.  If I had to wait around for him to make me do something then we would not be in a M/s relationship.  I also prefer to be more active in maintaining our relationship.  He asks, I do.  He doesn't ask, I offer to do for him.  It isn't just a one way street of the dominant having to do the taking.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:02:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slave2Bruce

Hmmm...maybe demanding was the wrong word.  We used to be a "typical" married couple in that we "shared" all cleaning duties and never stepped over the line of being equal and fair.  We're both sick of that know that we love our changing relationship but it is quite the learning process.  i still find myself slipping into that role and times and don't want Him to allow it, to take anything but submission and respect from me.  Does that make more sense?


This is what I am hearing, correct me if I am wrong, you want him to "make" you submissive? I think that you have this preconceived notion of what a power exchange looks like and feels like, and perhaps that is not the same idea your master has. Like kyra, I never have orders barked at me unless he is joking. He is kind to me, he helps with chores as he feels like, he opens doors for me, he gets me things if he desires. If people were watching us interact, I doubt highly they would see us differently from others, except there is no power struggle between us that I have seen in other relationships or experienced first hand. I see as what you are talking about as a power struggle, perhaps I misunderstand, but that is how I feel about what you describe.

There is no power struggle, he states he wants something, he gets it if it is possible for me to comply. If I have trouble I voice it. He listens and then answers my concerns.... Sometimes he gets firm, sometimes he thinks over what I say and sees a valid point... his decision.

I think you need to talk to your master about what you are saying here, for if you are to be truly a 24/7 slave, you have to let him lead the dynamic HIS WAY, not your way (my opinion). If he wants to do chores, he is the boss. If he wants your input and to listen to you, he is the boss, if you are not fulfilled by this... you need to tell him and either he will decide how to proceed, or you have some decisions to make. I know some submissives like to test their dominants, but not all of us do. Personally, my submission does not need to be "kept in place" to exist. But that is just me

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:03:19 PM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		i understand what you are both saying.  What i need is a change in my way of thinking, not that it's up to Him to "boss me around" but that it's up to me to please Him whether He asks for it or not. We do talk about this too, as hard as it is for me to at times (fighting old baggage in my head from the way i was raised), but i have never brought up my questions to others and know that it is time to.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:06:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think it is a really important question, because there are very few role models for this type of relationship. There are a lot of stereotypes about 24/7 too...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:12:51 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		One thing I think you could look at is what are your expectations of him and the relationship and are they reasonable?  If they are not, then you need to change them.  Then look at what you can actively do to submit to him.  And if he does ask you to do something, then do it.  Don't complain or whine about, don't say you don't want to, don't have time...  just do it.  If submitting to his will is what you want then it is as much your responsibility to make that happen as his. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:17:23 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slave2Bruce

..., not that it's up to Him to "boss me around" but that it's up to me to please Him whether He asks for it or not. ....


I would reword this  to the following

"not that it's up to him to only 'boss me around' but that it is also up to me to make the effort to please him... "


A Dominant will exercise their power of authority in the relationship and this is matched to the submissive that exercises their power to obey.  This is Active Dominance


but there is also the Passive Dominance that will exist in the relationship.

A dominant need not exercise authority because the submissive will be motivated to serve the will of their Dominant.  It is often shown where the submissive will take intiate to ask to serve or find ways to please and make the Dominant's life easier.


both exist but a balance must be obtained.  Some will wish more Active Dominance in the relationship dynamic some will prefer more passive Dominance

the important thing to appreciate is that both Active and Passive Dominance can and will inspire the submissive to submit

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:18:19 PM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		It's been a fantasy for so long that it's hard to know how to take the steps to make it a reality, since the only info we've really gone off so far is books. We've applied it in some aspects of our lives at certain times but we defintly desire to make it 24/7 so i appreciate all the advise!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:23:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am not 24/7 as I do not live with my Daddy, but I am submissive to him ALL the time, anytime he wishes. He told me recently that he always has our roles in the back of his mind, always. He does do little things to cement the dynamic, and they are so subtle that I often do not notice because my mindset is always as the submissive one... basically it IS a mindset. Most of all it should make both of you happy, both of you fulfilled, and it should not feel like a "role" more than it feels natural... no one can live a role forever. What one couple does will not be a fit for both of you, and that is part of the adventure for me, finding the way that makes us happy.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 5:54:45 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slave2Bruce

It's been a fantasy for so long that it's hard to know how to take the steps to make it a reality, since the only info we've really gone off so far is books.



Well, heres my two cents from some of the things I have learned. I hope it helps some.

The difference between fantasy and reality, in my opinion, is purpose. There is reasons why I do certain things as a dominant. Every rule, protocol, ritual has a purpose or a reason to it and is tailored for the individual relationship. Some things might seem like its simply for fantasy aspect, but its not. You dont just make a bunch of arbitary rules and protocols and say "Ok well these are rules now." I dont have protocols like "Once a day, you will dress in a maid's outfit and vaccuum the floor while I flog you.". Thats fantasy. I have rituals like "When we first meet, you will kneel and kiss my feet." Sure, it might seem like fantasy, but in reality its to 1) help estabilish the emotional connection that has been lost threw the stress of the vanilla world and 2) get the headspaces in the right place, you fealing submissive and me fealing dominant. (More on this in a bit)

Write it all down. Some people call this making a slave contract, but I call it "writing it all down", because that in actuality is the purpose of a slave contract. Its not a binding legal agreement. Its simply a peice of paper where I clearly write out and structure the relationship. As you start to get into all the limits, rules, protocols, etc, etc, you are going to start to forget things. He will forget rules that he placed, you will forget what they are and you will end up with a big huge mess. D/S involves structure and a slave contract that you revise as the relationship progresses helps to keep that strucutre.

Some of the things I have learned to include in my contracts... (Some of these probably wont apply since your already in an established relationship and not dealing with a new person)

1. MY code of ethics (Ethics and rules I agree to follow when giving an order until we have developed trust)
2. Goals (Things I have identified in the submissive and want her to improve on)
3. Limits
4. Rules, Rituals and Protocols

Ok so now you have this peice of paper with everything written out that you both can go and look at as a reference. Then you revise it as the relationship advances.

Protocols are great! Nobody can be an Active Dominant 24/7 as Knight of Mists described. I sure as hell cant stand over someone's shoulder and direct them every minutes of the day. So I make protocols so they know what to do without me telling them to and then discipline them until they do it as a habit. I dont have to tell s submissive every morning to bring me a cup of coffee with 2 sugars and 2 creams because I made it a protocol and she does it everyday. Your husband wont have to tell you what housework to do every day if he makes a protocol listing your daily chores.

It would be great if my submissive would come and visit me and just be submissive to me and then I have all this power without any effort, but unfortanely its not that easy. As dominants, we have to do things to "help" them feal submisisve just like submisisves have to do things that help us feal dominant. People refer to it as "maintaining the headspace". I like to have my feet kissed to help me feal dominant so I incorporate it as a protocol. The constant nudity, the shaving of body hair, the wearing of collars and cuffs...it might all seem like fantasy, but there is in fact a purpose. To help you feal submissive. The nudity and shaving of body hair instills strong fealings of vulnerability, the collar adds that fealing of protection around the most vulnerable part of your body, the neck, and the cuffs add that fealing that at any moment your dominant can restrain you.

Whatever you need to help maintain your dominant and submissive headspaces, figure it out, incorporate it as a protocol in your daily lifes and write it down on that peice of paper called a slave contract so you dont forget. It can be something as simple as not eating your dinner until he takes the first bite of his. Its all individualistic and nothing wrong or right. A mistress friend of mine has a part time sub who needs to be led around by a string tied to his penis to feal submissive. To me, thats a bit of a fantasy aspect, but hey...it works for him and she likes it.

Its going to be hard at first. It will require a willingness to change on both your parts. But as time goes by and you grow together, the headspaces and the protocols and the following of rules will become easier until its not "roles" anymore but a 24/7 way of living. I have met several D/S couples who have been together for many years and the way they simply flow together proves, to me, at least that it can be done.

I hope perhaps some of my learnings have helped you and wish you the best of luck.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 1/27/2007 6:02:32 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 6:17:21 PM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for your response, MadRabbit.  i will speak with Master about this tonight as i think we will greatly benefit from it.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/27/2007 6:52:50 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		i think i know what you are saying.  my first Daddy Dom was very 'bossy'.  It was actually just the way he spoke (and was one of the reasons for his divorce).  Anyway, he rarely asked me to do anything....almost everything came out as a command....and that just did something for me.
 
Like MadRabbit said, there's things that can keep you in the sub headspace, and that just really worked for me (and him too obviously). 
 
i wish you well with working it out.
 
Daddysgirl

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/28/2007 8:30:46 AM   
slave2Bruce


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		i used to rebel against any kind of order from my Husband which may be partly why i love it so much now.  it is such a deep sign of submission for me, and such a big step for him since he used to be so careful NOT to order me around or dominate me in any way.  We were miserable always living a power struggle and both feel great relief in "knowing our places" for lack of a better phrase.  i find myself thinking more and more of His needs and how i can please Him and make His day better when i used to be focused so much on myself and on what He can do for me.  It feels so right.  

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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/28/2007 10:06:07 AM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		slave2Bruce:  i see alot of similarities to my situation.  my Master and i lived a very vanilla life with the whole equality issues that are involved with that.  i can tell you that the majority of people on this forum did not have a vanilla relationship that's turn into D/s but you'll still gain so much insight and advice that it really doesn't matter.  in our case i feel its that we each grow into our roles in spurts  so there i times that i'm ahead (more submissive than He is dominant?)  but there are just as many where He is more dominant than i am submissive.  its a growing process that's a lot of work but well worth the effort.  could that be the case for you as well but just at the moment you're ahead?  something to think about anyway. 

i think what might help you is to find some things that help you experience your submission that don't require His input.   you should try to find some that work for you.  we have one protocol that is like that for me...
on the evenings that i get home before He does i set up some little scene for Him to find when He gets home.  if varies night to night... it might be fetish clothes or lack there of ...smile...i may put on just my collar and cuffs and wait kneeling for Him by the door. sometimes its as simple as having a drink and his slippers waiting for him by his chair or as elaborate as learning some belly dancing moves and creating a harem for Him to find.  the point is that He didn't command me specifically what to do...i do it on my own to show Him that at home all is done to please Him.  its a good use of my energy and for the 20 or 30 minutes that i'm getting ready and especially when i'm just waiting for him( i never know for sure when He'll be home) it really brings my focus to my main goal of making His life as pleasant as possible.  that makes me feel my submission.  i also get the added bonus that i experience my submission throughout the day whenever i think about what i'm going to do that night or when i shop for the 'accessories'. 

the other thing i'd like to address is the issue of 'commands'.  a command need not be given it a harsh tone, it can even include words like please.  it can even come in the form of a question.  the important thing is that you realize that even if He says "what's for dinner?"  it's as much of a command as Him saying "Slave, where the hell is my supper? Bring it to me on your knees!"  if you can re-adjust your internal ears to hear the command it actually allows us to bring more of vanilla life into our 24/7 dynamic.  its a lot more acceptable for Him to say at a company picnic "I'm thirsty" than it is for Him to say "Go get me a beer wench".  so in that very vanilla place i still feel my submission when i go get him the beer or fix him a plate of food. 
i hope these ideas help.  if you'd like to talk in more detail about our 'greetings' just e-mail me.  i don't intend to make this 'wanking' fodder. 

(in reply to slave2Bruce)
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RE: taking it a step further... - 1/28/2007 3:41:42 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:



A Dominant will exercise their power of authority in the relationship and this is matched to the submissive that exercises their power to obey. 



On a side note, I really like the way you worded this. It made me think about D/S in a different perspective and I appreciate that.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: taking it a step further... - 2/3/2007 10:15:12 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose... most express D/s dynamics in the context of an exchange.  I do not view the dynamic as such.

I see each individual with their own power that is exercised in it's own right.  Each being a trigger for the other....  As they meld together.. it creates a greater power that is the relationship.  ....

some speak of Power Exchange Relationships...

I speak to the Power Enhancement Relationships.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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