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Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 7:40:49 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		A recent thread addressed Gor as Literature, sort of. Some thoughtful posts resulted and along the way came some credible testimony that irrespective of concerns about the quality of the books, Gorean hangouts attract their share of worthwhile people.

That's all terrific. Go read what you want, right?

But since I've been critical of that literature in itself I thought it might be well to see about displaying a range of alternatives. What I have in mind are works which address what WIITWD addresses, for you.

I'd like to learn about works which make manifest for you the same sorts of meanings you find in WIITWD. Works which do so by means more subtle and perhaps more powerful than bald, explicit recitations about slapping and tickling and suspension rigs and munches.

That is the little project you are invited to help with in this thread.

In that other thread, my hopefully one-day drinking buddy Immanuel H. Nottertail spoke about his own wide-ranging taste in reading material. Why not read just anything, he seemed to suggest. Cast your net wide. And yeah, why not?

But as I was sending what's below to someone special today, it occurred to me that this is why not. Oh I don't argue for banning the sub-spectrum of kinky literary candy/fastfood/manure. As I said I have read a bunch of the Norman Books, and I read all sorts of other wacky stuff too from time to time. But people are building lives and lifestyles around, well, certain sorts of stuff ... when entirely other sorts of stuff are available.

So the next time you're about to read a page, or a chapter, or a volume of Gor, or one of those mechanical treatises on kink or scene politics, I'd like to suggest that just as an experiment you consider reading something like what follows, instead.

It carves so cleanly toward the heart--rather than the mechanics--of kink and power exchange, for me, anyway. It doesn't dress itself up as a sputtering, one-legged social theory. It just makes manifest by a sort of resonation something powerful and delicious and dangerous and crucial about what happens to a girl when ....

Well it can't be described.  That's the thing. It has to be shown. Having read some of those Norman books I feel ever so confident that nowhere in his work would I find an image of what is so appealing, so dirty and sparkling, so heart rending and at the same time so heartening about, say, my favorite little bit of stuff. About what we do together; what we conjure and weave and build brick by brick together. 

Whereas this, this little piece that follows, this is a kind of literature that can shine light on WIIT(she&I)D.


Walking Home From Oak-Head
by Mary Oliver

There is something    
about the snow-laden sky        
in winter           
in the late afternoon
 
that brings the heart to elation    
and the lovely meaninglessness        
of time.            
Whenever I get home--whenever--

somebody loves me there.    
Meanwhile        
I stand in the same dark peace            
as any pine tree,

or wander on slowly   
like the unhurried wind       
waiting,
as for a gift,

for the snow to begin    
which it does        
at first casually,
then, irrepressibly.

Where ever else I live--    
in music, in words,       
 in the fires of the heart,            
I abide just as deeply

in this nameless, indivisible place,    
this world,        
which is falling apart now,            
which is white and wild,

Which is faithful beyond all expressions of faith,    
our deepest prayers,        
Don't worry, sooner or later I'll be home.            
Red-cheeked from the roused wind,

I'll stand in the doorway    
stamping my boots and slapping my hands,        
my shoulders           
covered with stars.


So there you go.

No leather, no lace, no whips, no chains ... to get in the way of showing what those very same lovely, sensuous tools can bring us to--if we open ourselves to the journey, the discoveries.

I don't care if you don't care by the way. And I sure don't care if you're against me. What I'm wondering is: who is with me?

And what are your kinkier than kink itself literatures? Will you share some with us here?


< Message edited by Noah -- 1/27/2007 7:45:05 PM >
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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 7:48:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline


I believe I posted this before, but it is worth a second look, my idea of romantic BDSM poetry... not that is has gobs of power exchange in it... but it sure is sexy.
 
 
 
Woman Waits For Me

A WOMAN waits for me--she contains all, nothing is lacking,
Yet all were lacking, if sex were lacking, or if the moisture of the
right man were lacking.

Sex contains all,
Bodies, Souls, meanings, proofs, purities, delicacies, results,
promulgations,
Songs, commands, health, pride, the maternal mystery, the seminal
milk;
All hopes, benefactions, bestowals,
All the passions, loves, beauties, delights of the earth,
All the governments, judges, gods, follow'd persons of the earth,
These are contain'd in sex, as parts of itself, and justifications of
itself.

Without shame the man I like knows and avows the deliciousness of his
sex,
 
Without shame the woman I like knows and avows hers.

Now I will dismiss myself from impassive women,
I will go stay with her who waits for me, and with those women that
are warm-blooded and sufficient for me;
I see that they understand me, and do not deny me;
I see that they are worthy of me--I will be the robust husband of
those women.

They are not one jot less than I am,
They are tann'd in the face by shining suns and blowing winds,
Their flesh has the old divine suppleness and strength,
They know how to swim, row, ride, wrestle, shoot, run, strike,
retreat, advance, resist, defend themselves,
They are ultimate in their own right--they are calm, clear, well-
possess'd of themselves.
I draw you close to me, you women!
I cannot let you go, I would do you good,
I am for you, and you are for me, not only for our own sake, but for
others' sakes;
Envelop'd in you sleep greater heroes and bards,
They refuse to awake at the touch of any man but me.

It is I, you women--I make my way,
I am stern, acrid, large, undissuadable--but I love you,
I do not hurt you any more than is necessary for you,
I pour the stuff to start sons and daughters fit for These States--I
press with slow rude muscle,
I brace myself effectually--I listen to no entreaties,
I dare not withdraw till I deposit what has so long accumulated
within me.

Through you I drain the pent-up rivers of myself,
In you I wrap a thousand onward years,
On you I graft the grafts of the best-beloved of me and America,
The drops I distil upon you shall grow fierce and athletic girls, new
artists, musicians, and singers,
The babes I beget upon you are to beget babes in their turn,
I shall demand perfect men and women out of my love-spendings,
I shall expect them to interpenetrate with others, as I and you
interpenetrate now,
I shall count on the fruits of the gushing showers of them, as I
count on the fruits of the gushing showers I give now,
I shall look for loving crops from the birth, life, death,
immortality, I plant so lovingly now.
Walt Whitman


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/27/2007 7:49:51 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 8:33:14 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline 		What a wonderful idea, Noah. 

I have to think more about it more, but off the top of my head - totally non sexual but it spoke to my specific M/F, D/s kink.  I'm not replacing with "unmentionables" because I do not edit Steinbeck.  From "The Grapes of Wrath":

"The people came out of their houses and smelled the hot stinging air and covered their noses from it.  And the children came out of their houses, but they did not run and shout as they would have after a rain.  Men stood by their fences and looked at the ruined corn, drying fast now, only a little green showing through the film of dust.  The men were silent and they did not move often.  And the women came out of the houses to stand beside their men - to feel whether this time the men would break.  The women studied the men's faces secretly, for the corn could go, as long as something else remained.  The children stood near by, drawing figures in the dust with bare toes, and the children exploring senses out to see whether men and women would break.  The children peeked at the faces of the men and women, and then drew careful lines in the dust with their toes ... After a while the faces of the watching men lost their bemused perplexity and became hard and angry and resistant.  Then the women knew that they were safe and that there was no break.  Then they asked, What'll we do?  And the men replied, I don't know.  But it was all right.  The women knew it was all right, and the watching children knew it was all right.  Women and children knew deep in themselves that no misfortune was too great to bear if their men were whole ...and the children began to play ... The men sat still - thinking - figuring.

MaryT

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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 8:50:12 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		There are two poems that express the spacious interiority of being BDSM "in the zone."  They are favorite poems of mine anyway, but express, however tangentially, what I am aiming for. 

When I want intoxicating, raunchy, over-powering deliciousness, I reach for Macho Sluts by Pat Califia.  I loved and hated it when it was handed to me 14 years ago, and I am still inflamed by it.


Somewhere I have never travelled-- E. E. Cummings
somewhere i have never travelled, gladly beyond
any experience, your eyes have their silence:
in your most frail gesture are things which enclose me,
or which i cannot touch because they are too near your slightest look easily will unclose me
though i have closed myself as fingers,
you open always petal by petal myself as Spring opens
(touching skilfully, mysteriously) her first rose or if your wish be to close me, I and
my life will shut very beautifully, suddenly,
as when the heart of this flower imagines
the snow carefully everywhere descending; nothing which we are to perceive in this world equals
the power of your intense fragility: whose texture
compels me with the colour of its countries,
rendering death and forever with each breathing (I do not know what it is about you that closes
and opens; only something in me understands
the voice of your eyes is deeper than all roses)
nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands   Variation On The Word Sleep
by Margaret Atwood
I would like to watch you sleeping,
which may not happen.
I would like to watch you,
sleeping. I would like to sleep
with you, to enter
your sleep as its smooth dark wave
slides over my head

and walk with you through that lucent
wavering forest of bluegreen leaves
with its watery sun & three moons
towards the cave where you must descend,
towards your worst fear

I would like to give you the silver
branch, the small white flower, the one
word that will protect you
from the grief at the center
of your dream, from the grief
at the center I would like to follow
you up the long stairway
again & become
the boat that would row you back
carefully, a flame
in two cupped hands
to where your body lies
beside me, and as you enter
it as easily as breathing in

I would like to be the air
that inhabits you for a moment
only. I would like to be that unnoticed
& that necessary.


_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to MaryT)
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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 8:51:27 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

There are two poems that express the spacious interiority of being BDSM "in the zone."  They are favorite poems of mine anyway, but express, however tangentially, what I am aiming for. 

When I want intoxicating, raunchy, over-powering deliciousness, I reach for Macho Sluts by Pat Califia.  I loved and hated it when it was handed to me 14 years ago, and I am still inflamed by it.


Somewhere I have never travelled-- E. E. Cummings

somewhere i have never travelled, gladly beyond
any experience, your eyes have their silence:
in your most frail gesture are things which enclose me,
or which i cannot touch because they are too near

your slightest look easily will unclose me
though i have closed myself as fingers,
you open always petal by petal myself as Spring opens
(touching skilfully, mysteriously) her first rose

or if your wish be to close me, I and
my life will shut very beautifully, suddenly,
as when the heart of this flower imagines
the snow carefully everywhere descending;

nothing which we are to perceive in this world equals
the power of your intense fragility: whose texture
compels me with the colour of its countries,
rendering death and forever with each breathing

(I do not know what it is about you that closes
and opens; only something in me understands
the voice of your eyes is deeper than all roses)
nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands   

Variation On The Word Sleep
by Margaret Atwood
I would like to watch you sleeping,
which may not happen.
I would like to watch you,
sleeping. I would like to sleep
with you, to enter
your sleep as its smooth dark wave
slides over my head

and walk with you through that lucent
wavering forest of bluegreen leaves
with its watery sun & three moons
towards the cave where you must descend,
towards your worst fear

I would like to give you the silver
branch, the small white flower, the one
word that will protect you
from the grief at the center
of your dream, from the grief
at the center I would like to follow
you up the long stairway
again & become
the boat that would row you back
carefully, a flame
in two cupped hands
to where your body lies
beside me, and as you enter
it as easily as breathing in

I would like to be the air
that inhabits you for a moment
only. I would like to be that unnoticed
& that necessary.



_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 8:52:45 PM   
BeeQueen


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline 		a) gor is not bdsm
b) there is a lot of bdsm-fantasie books for all tastes

my favorite  reading is "venus in fur" by sacher-masoch

(in reply to MaryT)
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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 8:58:14 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeeQueen
a) gor is not bdsm


So why is there a Gor forum on collarme.com?

MaryT

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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 9:46:50 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I believe I posted this before, but it is worth a second look, my idea of romantic BDSM poetry... not that is has gobs of power exchange in it... but it sure is sexy.
...
Walt Whitman



Thank you, Julia.

Is it merely charming or is it further significant that I happened to choose at first a piece from a woman, and you one from a man? I guess we shouldn't be surprised if the opposite side of the line is where this illumination is sometimes most helpful, or anyway, delightful.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 9:59:43 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

What a wonderful idea, Noah. 


You're welcome, Mary.

quote:

I have to think more about it more, but off the top of my head - totally non sexual but it spoke to my specific M/F, D/s kink.  I'm not replacing with "unmentionables" because I do not edit Steinbeck.  From "The Grapes of Wrath":


If this is what's littering the top of your head, I can't wait to read what you dredge up on further reflection.

quote:

The people came out of their houses

and smelled the hot stinging air

and covered their noses from it. 

And the children came out of their houses,

but they did not run and shout as they would have after a rain. 

Men stood by their fences and looked at the ruined corn,

drying fast now,

only a little green showing through the film of dust. 

The men were silent and they did not move often. 

And the women came out of the houses

to stand beside their men -

to feel whether this time the men would break. 

The women studied the men's faces secretly,

for the corn could go, as long as something else remained. 

The children stood near by,

drawing figures in the dust with bare toes,

and the children exploring senses out

to see whether men and women would break.

The children peeked at the faces of the men and women,

and then drew careful lines in the dust with their toes ...

After a while the faces of the watching men lost their bemused perplexity

and became hard and angry and resistant. 

Then the women knew that they were safe

and that there was no break.  Then they asked,

What'll we do?  And the men replied,

I don't know. 

But it was all right. 

The women knew it was all right,

and the watching children knew it was all right. 

Women and children knew deep in themselves

that no misfortune was too great to bear if their men were whole ...

and the children began to play ...

The men sat still -

thinking -

figuring.


WOW. And by "wow" I mean: "Mother Fucker."
That is what I'm talking about.


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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 10:11:30 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

There are two poems that express the spacious interiority of being BDSM "in the zone."


I'm grateful for your post already. Spacious Interiority summoning up for me that exemplary submissive (and dominatrx of bishops,) Theresa of Avila, some of whose words I wouldn't be surprised to find turning up later in this thread.


quote:

  They are favorite poems of mine anyway, but express, however tangentially, what I am aiming for.... 


Both wonderful.

I'm beginning to think that I would do best to ration these responses out to myself. One a day or maybe one a week, or even more slowly. They are just too rich to gorge on. I and people I care about will be hearing these poems over again as the years pass, thanks to you.


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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 10:14:22 PM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeeQueen

a) gor is not bdsm



Bondage:  One expects a red-silk girl, for example, to not only be able to find her way about the furs, but, subject to the whip, owned and dominated, perhaps chained, to prove herself a sensuous treasure within them." - Savages of Gor

Two straps are used so that the master, if he wishes, may fasten each ankle separately. In this fashion the ankles may be bound, but need not be bound together. This permits an arrangement similar to a common variety of "use chains" or "love chains," in which the left wrist is chained to the left ankle, and the right wrist to the right ankle.
-Tribesman of Gor

Discipline: Some say the Master belt gets its name because it is used sometimes in the disciplining of bond-maids. -Marauders of Gor

Sadism: "The box is so small," I said. "It is supposed to be small," said Drusus Rencius. "But consider the cramping, the tightness, the girl's helplessness," I said. "Those are among its purposes," he said. "But it is so small!' I protested. "It is not really so small," he said. I looked at him. "It would be, for example," he said, "more than large enough for you" -Kajira of Gor

When one who is a slave strikes a free person the penalty is not infrequently death by impalement, preceded by lengthy torture. -Assassins of Gor

Masochism: "Please strike me once more," she said, "that I may this time feel the blow as a slave."
I said nothing.
"I want to feel your whip, as your slave," she said.- Mercenaries of Gor

Gor is not what?

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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 10:18:36 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I don't have any poetry, writings or lyrics to share off the top of my head, but in reading the pieces here, what this really says to me is that we are no different than those who do not subscribe to bdsm practice, as we are seeing the same fundamentals shared in the writings of those who never threw a whip in their lives, yet we as people who do engage in bdsm activities resonate with their words just the same.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 10:30:20 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		For me, this was a no brainer. It spoke to me from the moment I read it almost 30 years ago and to this day still humbles me.

From The Bard: Taming of the Shrew.

Fie, fie! unknit that threatening unkind brow,
And dart not scornful glances from those eyes,
To wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor:
It blots thy beauty as frosts do bite the meads,
Confounds thy fame as whirlwinds shake fair buds,
And in no sense is meet or amiable.
A woman moved is like a fountain troubled,
Muddy, ill-seeming, thick, bereft of beauty;
And while it is so, none so dry or thirsty
Will deign to sip or touch one drop of it.
Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy keeper,
Thy head, thy sovereign; one that cares for thee,
And for thy maintenance commits his body
To painful labour both by sea and land,
To watch the night in storms, the day in cold,
Whilst thou liest warm at home, secure and safe;
And craves no other tribute at thy hands
But love, fair looks and true obedience;
Too little payment for so great a debt.
Such duty as the subject owes the prince
Even such a woman oweth to her husband;
And when she is froward, peevish, sullen, sour,
And not obedient to his honest will,
What is she but a foul contending rebel
And graceless traitor to her loving lord?
I am ashamed that women are so simple
To offer war where they should kneel for peace;
Or seek for rule, supremacy and sway,
When they are bound to serve, love and obey.
Why are our bodies soft and weak and smooth,
Unapt to toil and trouble in the world,
But that our soft conditions and our hearts
Should well agree with our external parts?
Come, come, you froward and unable worms!
My mind hath been as big as one of yours,
My heart as great, my reason haply more,
To bandy word for word and frown for frown;
But now I see our lances are but straws,
Our strength as weak, our weakness past compare,
That seeming to be most which we indeed least are.
Then vail your stomachs, for it is no boot,
And place your hands below your husband's foot:
In token of which duty, if he please,
My hand is ready; may it do him ease.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 11:16:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		From The Prophet, chapter on Love by Kahlil Gibran

Then said Almitra, "Speak to us of Love."
And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 11:32:04 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Favorite Shakespear Sonnets:
 
 
Sonnet 56
Sweet love, renew thy force; be it not said
Thy edge should blunter be than appetite,
Which but to-day by feeding is allay'd,
To-morrow sharpen'd in his former might:
So, love, be thou; although to-day thou fill
Thy hungry eyes even till they wink with fullness,
To-morrow see again, and do not kill
The spirit of love with a perpetual dullness.
Let this sad interim like the ocean be
Which parts the shore, where two contracted new
Come daily to the banks, that, when they see
Return of love, more blest may be the view;
Else call it winter, which being full of care
Makes summer's welcome thrice more wish'd, more rare.
 
 
 
Sonnet 57
Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend,
Nor services to do, till you require.
Nor dare I chide the world-without-end hour
Whilst I, my sovereign, watch the clock for you,
Nor think the bitterness of absence sour
When you have bid your servant once adieu;
Nor dare I question with my jealous thought
Where you may be, or your affairs suppose,
But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought
Save, where you are how happy you make those.
So true a fool is love that in your will,
Though you do any thing, he thinks no ill.
 
 
 
Sonnet 58
That god forbid that made me first your slave,
I should in thought control your times of pleasure,
Or at your hand the account of hours to crave,
Being your vassal, bound to stay your leisure!
O, let me suffer, being at your beck,
The imprison'd absence of your liberty;
And patience, tame to sufferance, bide each check,
Without accusing you of injury.
Be where you list, your charter is so strong
That you yourself may privilege your time
To what you will; to you it doth belong
Yourself to pardon of self-doing crime.
I am to wait, though waiting so be hell;
Not blame your pleasure, be it ill or well.

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RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/27/2007 11:56:01 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Noah,

Another thoughful and worthwhile post. Thank
you once again. I have some quotes that I think
will stir the pot.

I am immediately tempted to start with Socrates
quote that "the unexamined life is not worth living"
and go from there. But I think a more pertinent and
direct counter example to the Gor series can be
found in contemporary light fiction.

I choose to turn to John D. MacDonald; specifically
his Travis McGee series as a better example of a
series with a philosophy of how to live as "a man".

For those who do not know the Travis McGee
series consisted of 21 books written between
64 and 85. McGee gets into various adventures
which provide John D MacDonald with ample
opportunities to have his characters; McGee
and his friend(s) reflect on the nature of the world.

What follows are some random quotes obviously
taken out of story context from different books.
I added the titles as separators for this post

Values:

"The only thing in the world worth a damn is the strange,
touching, pathetic, awesome nobility of the individual
human spirit."

True Believers:

"I know just enough about myself to know I cannot settle
for one of those simplifications which indignant people seize
upon to make understandable a world too complex for their
comprehension. Astrology, health food, flag waving, bible
thumping, Zen, nudism, nihilism -- all of these are grotesque
simplifications which small dreary people adopt in the hope
of thereby finding The Answer, because the very concept
that maybe there is no answer, never has been, never will be,
terrifies them."

A Woman's Worth:

"A woman who does not guard and treasure herself cannot be
of very much value to anyone else... Only a woman of pride,
complexity, and emotional tension is genuinely worth the act of
love, and there are only two ways to get yourself one of them.
Either you lie, and stain the relationship with your own sense of
guile, or you accept the involvement, the emotional responsibility,
the permanence she must by nature crave. I love you can be said
only two ways."

A Man's Responsibities:

"Memory of a rumbling voice of the grandpa long ago:
"Anything you can't take care of, kid, you don't deserve to own.
A dog, a gun, a reel, a bike or a woman. You learn how to do it
and you do it, because if you don't you hate yourself."

An out-of-date morality. Anything you don't take care of, you replace.
Of course, the ERA wouldn't cotton to Grandpa's including a woman
in his list of ownership items. Grandma seemed a happy woman, however."

Friendship, Relationships:

"You can be at ease only with those people to whom
you can say any damn fool thing that comes into your
head, knowing they will respond in kind, and knowing
that any misunderstandings will be thrashed out right now,
rather than buried deep and given a chance to fester."

"Sophisticated" Lifestyles: The parallels here
between the "Hefner Empire" and some of the
"Lifestyle" followers is more than obvious.

"... the Hefner Empire seems to represent some sort of
acme of sophistication, based as it is upon fantastic
centerfold mammalians for the pimpled self-lovers,
upon a chain of bunny-warrens styled to make the
middle-class sales manager feel like a member of
an in-group, and upon a laborious philosophical
discourse which runs interminably in the ad-happy
magazine and in the polysyllabic style of the pseudo
-educated, carrying the deathless message that it is
healthy to screw and run if everybody is terribly
sincere about it."

If anybody wants more information on the Travis McGee
series I provide these links as starts

http://256.com/gray/quotes/john_macdonald/

http://home.earthlink.net/~rufener/

I know that some of the sentiments expressed
in these quotes are not in the mainstream here.
But you have to expect that from an,

Outlier

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/28/2007 12:56:08 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline



Hello Noah,
I'm going to follow the other route suggested and recommend a wonderful NON-BDSM book that I found very helpful.
It's called The Surrendered Wife. It's a story of a very submissive vanilla woman and how she serves her husband and what he means to her.

I also want to say I thank all of you for these wonderful poems.
I intend to come back when it's not 4am and post one I wrote myself.

suzanne



(in reply to outlier)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/28/2007 1:03:44 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		The bible comes to mind, first. There is soooo much in there about wives obeying husbands, husbands with many wives and use of the rod. Plus, you have to say lifestyles have grown up around it, to say the least, heh.

ON a more earthy level, The Great Gatsby gives a taste of BDSM with Myrtle and deals with sex and power in relationships on many levels. To me it creates an affluent and cultured setting that I want to go to now and then. There were lots of good lines in the book, but this sets the tone as much as any: (Of Jay Gatsby) "He knew women early, and since they spoiled him he became contemptuous of them, of young virgins because they were ignorant, of the others because they were hysterical about things which in his overwhelming self-absorption he took for granted..."

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/28/2007 1:27:28 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
It's called The Surrendered Wife. It's a story of a very submissive vanilla woman and how she serves her husband and what he means to her.


My very non-BDSM sister has this book and loves it.  The women in her church have shared it.

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Alternatives to Gor - 1/28/2007 10:50:13 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline











One of my poems I wrote myself in my searching for a Master


Come to me in Righteousness

Do not come unto me as a thief in the night.
Pretending to be clear, I'll rather see through you.
This will get you no where in the end but backward.
When you come to me come with integrity, diligence, leadership, and strength.
For any god ruler is accountable for the Kingdom that lays under his feet.

Do not assume you'll convince me to become your humble servant on the words you self profess, if the habits, actions, and emotions show otherwise.
It will be the decent of your demise not mine as I'll choose not to go there with you.

For me to leave my homeland, and take up following you on your path I need to feel our paths blend as mirror images.
I will not be your loyal subject till I see compassion & leadership shining through the fissures where we don't meld as one bright enough to want to be on your path when the sun rises in your eyes.
suzanne




(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 20
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