RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (Full Version)

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amiciaN -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 6:04:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

From Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: 1slave


Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'slAv
Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe
1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

From Oxford English Dictionary of Current English:

slave

• noun 1 historical a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.


Oxford English Dictionary of Current English.



I like how you ignore the other definition of slave from Merriam-Webster and only focus on the definition that fits your argument.

One that is completely subservient to a dominating influence fits me with my Lord.  Guess that makes me real.  Webster says so.

Knight's kyra


Great minds think alike.  [;)]



BeingChewsie -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 6:09:42 PM)

I am owned and have no rights, so yes in *theory* he could sell me...but by what mechanism would the new man own me? He wouldn't have legal title and he wouldn't have *ownership* in any other meaningful way.  I would still be owned by the man I am in service to now, perhaps the new man could enslave me but if not I would not be honor-bound to stay. I'm not a slave by agreement, I'm owned because I have been enslaved by him..He is my pack leader, my world, I must please him...that is where the *ownership* lives, you can't trasnfer that at will...it it part of *my* belief system. A belief system he created and maintains...how exactly do you sell something intangible like that? It doesn't mean I'm not a slave in a very literal sense of the word, it means that the stuff that makes me that very literal slave is what can't be sold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSophia
The question is are you by all meaning a slave? Or are you a slave in fantasy,and erotic , and so it ends your slavery until another come along to peak your interest!!  Is it your life calling, or just the fantasy?


This is exactly the question. I would also add that my use of the word true is an attempt to bring a literial meaning to slave, re a dictionary meaning, slave: one that is chattel property with no rights,,, and the meaning or real is also in that vain.



Devilslilsister -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 6:21:14 PM)

quote:

I think it's likely quite rare for many people to be owned in such a manner.

agirl


its alot less rare then you think



Devilslilsister -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 6:25:04 PM)

quote:

But for arguments sake. Modern slavery as practiced today, right now in places like Brazil, Northern Africa and several Islamic states is not historical, it is of the moment. The slavery is non consensual, the slave has no rights and is chattel property and the slaves are often sold or passed with no consent what so every. They are also lent out for trade for the sole benefit of their owners. And even though it is outlawed by statute, in many states where it thrives, the laws are at best selectively applied. This is real slavery. This is the clear academic and scholarly definitions of slavery. This is slavery.  There is nothing remotely romantic about it.


There is actual BDSM slavery much the same going on in the world.  Actual bdsm slaves that are bought, sold, and the ability to have a "choice" once you are under their control goes flying out the window. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 7:15:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Still stands as I wrote. You have to apply legal historical definitions of historical slavery to begin with to even understand what it was all about in order to modify it to fit current society as best as possible but stay as close to that legal historical base.

I need to understand legal historical slavery as it applies to historical legal slaves.

I need to understand personal historial slavery as it applies to historial personal slaves.

It is of course useful to understand how perceptions of the one will affect and interact with perceptions of the other.

But they are indeed separate dynamics, undergoing very separate histories and paths.  To try and compare one to the other as a prescriptive eliminating definitive process will be useless.



starshineowned -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 7:24:13 PM)

quote:

I need to understand personal historial slavery as it applies to historial personal slaves.
Personal History slavery? Perhaps you could enlighten me on what and when Personal History of slavery came about? Because I know of no such thing in existence unless your implying it's only in your head. Institutional slavery I don't believe as you implied earlier is the same thing as Personal History of slavery, whatever the heck that is.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



thetammyjo -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 7:35:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Exodus chapt. 21 V. 5 and 6 say "But if a slave declares, "I love my master, my wife and my children, I do not wish to go free". His master shall take him unto G-d, he shall take him to the door or to the doorpost , and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl: and he shall serve him forever." Deuteronomy chapt. 15 v. 16 and 17 repeat basically the same thing, " ... you will take the awl and put it in his ear into the door, and he will be your slave forever. Also with your female slave you shall do this."

Historic Consensual Slavery Documented


*giggle*

This is the quotation Fox and I used when we pierced his ears for our 7th anniversary.

I would ask though, as a historian, what defines consensual.

If someone knows no other life or if someone knows that if they leave they are less likely to be able to have food on the table, clothes on their backs, or a roof over their head, are they giving consent to be a slave or simply choosing that which makes the most sense to them? In other words, if slavery is the least harmful option is it truly consensual or simply surviving?

I have my own opinion on these questions.

Better examples of people agreeing to be slaves might be those occasions where someone would sell themselves into slavery for the chance of earning citizenship -- this did happen in Rome but very, very, very rarely. Once bought there were few ways to enforce the agreement other than doing excellent work and proving you would be more valuable as a freedman.

I think these are interesting philosophical and moral questions, but I still do not see the value in these questions as applied to BDSM or any of its subgroups.



stateira -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 7:37:10 PM)

So slaves.....

Can you be sold or if you were sold would you just stop being a slave and realize you were never one to begin with?
 
Absolutely I "can" be sold.  That is part of what gives Master his power over me.  Would he sell me?  probably not.  Will I still be a slave because I am sold?  yes, because that is what I am.  Will I willingly submit to just any man?  no.  tried that before...almost got myself killed.  If a slave is sold and is unable to or chooses not to submit to the person she is sold to, that does not stop her from being a slave.  It simply means she does not belong to anybody other than being in his service.  the slave will not love the Master or Mistress and will actually probably resent them if they are kept even though they don't get along.  Or at least I would resent that person.





FatDomDaddy -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:13:24 PM)

Well then perhaps this question (and maybe it deserves its own thread);

Can a slave (in context here with BDSM) say no if the owner wants to trade out their services, for a profit, for punishment, on a whim or because they just want too show they have the ability to do so?









mnottertail -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:17:36 PM)

enough of this bullshit
the answer is always yes---
as slave you can or leave in consentual society

nobody truely owns you in ways you will not be owned.

Amenhotep



kittensmailbox -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:21:04 PM)

 not a slave.... i am much to strong willed... i am a spirited submissive....



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:25:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

 not a slave.... i am much to strong willed... i am a spirited submissive....


I am a slave and strong willed. Slave doesnt = weak. Congrats on hijacking the thread.



kittensmailbox -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:27:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

 not a slave.... i am much to strong willed... i am a spirited submissive....


I am a slave and strong willed. Slave doesnt = weak. Congrats on hijacking the thread.


ouch!!!!, just posting my own feelings.... damn!!!!! ... i was trained that slaves have no freedmon



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:31:37 PM)

Giving up freedom or rights doesn't equal weak either. There are weak Doms, subs and slaves,  it has nothing to do with freedom. It is the person inside that makes them weak. It has nothing to do with being a slave.  That is another subject all together.



mnottertail -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:33:54 PM)

LOL, here is a blast from the past, for all you slaves out there listening to radio station SNOT --the green spot on your dial:

You to me
Are sweet as roses in the morning
And you to me
Are soft as summer rain at dawn, in love we share
That something rare

The sidewalks in the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begins to crumble
But love will never die
Because we'll see the mountains tumble
Before we say goodbye

My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
Mmm, that's the way it's meant to be

All around
I see the purple shades of evening
And on the ground
The shadows fall and once again you're in my arms
So tenderly

The sidewalks in the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begins to crumble
But love will never die
Because we'll see the mountains tumble
Before we say goodbye

My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
Mmm, that's the way it's meant to be

The sidewalks in the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begins to crumble
But love will never die
Because we'll see the mountains tumble
Before we say goodbye

My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
Mmm, that's the way it's meant to be

And that's the way
That's the way it's meant to be

That's the way
(that's the way it's meant to be)
Whoa, that's the way
That's the way it's meant to be ---fade out---

Sick ain't it?

LOL,
Ron




kittensmailbox -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:34:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

Giving up freedom or rights doesn't equal weak either. There are weak Doms, subs and slaves,  it has nothing to do with freedom. It is the person inside that makes them weak. It has nothing to do with being a slave.  That is another subject all together.


Where on earth did you read that i said slaves were weak!!!!??????  i SAID that I, WAS NOT A SLAVE....  get over yourself...... 



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:37:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

 not a slave.... i am much to strong willed... i am a spirited submissive....


Hmm not being strong willed would be weak wouldn't it? Or do you have another defintion you care to use?



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:42:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Well then perhaps this question (and maybe it deserves its own thread);

Can a slave (in context here with BDSM) say no if the owner wants to trade out their services, for a profit, for punishment, on a whim or because they just want too show they have the ability to do so?

To answer your question that has something to do with the thread. I have been traded out for services and sold but not for profit. I did not have any say so in it and knew I did not have the right to say no when I entered the relationship. I was sold because I was not happy in the current relationship and the couple I was serving knew this and sold me so maybe I could be happy with someone else. It turned out I was.








mnottertail -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:45:56 PM)

here we have an abject slave and a sensual submissive, if this be a fight, I will hold tits for the combatants, as only one with my european training and ancient heritage could do, and I do accept blowjobs.

Sir Galahad 



kittensmailbox -> RE: So you think you are really a slave.... (1/30/2007 8:46:42 PM)

oh jesus christ.. i just said i wasnt a slave..... i'm not... like it or not.... i'm not, good for those who are... me, just a sub.... i was trained that slaves are not free thinkers..... that is how i was trained... dont like it? too bad, doesnt make me wrong or right, just how i was trained.....  hate me, dont care.... i do not have to answer to any of you.... so kiss my ......



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