farglebargle
Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thadius
Ah what the hell, I was going to stay out of debating the other issues but the temptation is a bit to much.
I usually don't like to dissect things and respond in snippets, but we're going to have to take it that way, due to the number of items you bring up. Are we all seated comfortably, good. Let's begin.
quote:
Hussein was paying rewards to the families of "martyrs".
WRONG! That is not a threat to the existence of the Republic, as per A. Lincoln, the only reason the Republic is justified in mobilization. ( c.f.: Address at Gettysburg )
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We know that Iraq had WMD for 2 simple and undeniable facts, first he had used them in the past, secondly we helped Iraq start these programs during the Iraq/Iran war by selling and giving him the WMD.
WRONG! The December 2000, no, 2001 NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE concluded:
(a) IAEA and UNSCOM had destroyed or neutralized Iraq's nuclear infrastructure, but Iraq still has a foundation for future nuclear reconstruction.
(b) Iraq was continuing low-level theoretical research and training, and attempting to obtain dual-use items that could be used to reconsititute its nuclear program;
(c) IF Iraq acquired a SIGNIFICANT quantity of fissile material via foreign assistance, it could have a crude nuclear weapon within a year, with outside assistance, they could produce enough fissile grade uranium in 5 to 7 years.
(d) Iraq did not appear to hoave reconsitituted it's nuclear weapons program.
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To claim that the Bush administration lied about such, one must also say that the Clinton administration did too.
Then Condi Rice went on Wolf Bitzer in 2002 and lied about the aluminium tubes...
Are you suggesting that since Hannibal Lechter eats people, it's ok for YOU to eat people.
"Since Clinton lied, it's ok for Bush to lie". Yup you are. That's absurd.
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So lets at least be intellectually honest about that part of it.
Your version of "intellectually honest" doesn't agree with the unanimous consensous of the Intellegence Community as expressed in the NIE prior to 9/11.
I'll go with the National Intelligence Estimate, thanks.
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I know it is much easier to just bitch about the one you disagree with, but both of them had the same intel, and both came to the same conclussions.
Well, I recapped the NIE, and Bush LIED about the threat posed by Hussein and Iraq. Bush LIED about the urgency of Hussein and Iraq.
That's poorly put. Let me rephrase: ( see if you can tell where this quote is from )
"Conspiracies to defraud usually begin with a goal that is not in and of itself illegal. In this instance the goal was to invade Iraq. It is possible that the Bush team thought this goal was laudable and likely to succeed. It's also possible that they never formally agreed to defraud the public in order to attain it. But when they chose to overcome anticipated or actual opposition to their plan by concealing information and lying, they began a conspiracy to defraud -- because, as juries are instructed, "no amount of belief in the ultimate success of a scheme will justify baseless, false or reckless misstatements."
From the fall of 2001 to at least March 2003, the following officials, and others, made hundreds of false assertions in speeches, on television, at the United Nations, to foreign leaders and to Congress: President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his Under Secretary, Paul Wolfowitz. Their statements were remarkably consistent and consistently false."
< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/5/2007 5:54:36 PM >
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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.
ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
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RE: Jihad Jane??? - 
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