Commitment

Commitment (Full Version)

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Stephann -> Commitment (2/1/2007 8:16:05 PM)
This may seem like a mundane topic, but I have a feeling it will be turned on it's head before the week is over. I have a few questions on the topic. What does it mean to be committed? Marriage, dating, monogamy, polygamy, the rules of commitment are clearly personal, unique, and no two couples are alike. Vanilla folk tend to have standard expectations regarding their commitments, though we know that relationships in the BDSM world often require a great deal more negotiation. How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? I do have a direction in mind for the conversation to go, as I actually have a couple other puzzles to resolve in my own mind. I'd like to hear what you folks have to say, first though. Stephan

Wulfchyld -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 8:23:08 PM)
Hmmm... seems to me you might want to get into defining your parameters and boundaries. The advantage of being in this lifestyle is it is, in theory, based on communication. That means you don't hem haw or beat around the bush, you go strait to the nut cutting on how your relationship will be defined. The failing of most people in the Nilla world, and I am sure there is a fair share here, is they lack the courage to voice their wants and needs. If nailing every bimbo you bump into is what you "need" to do, then by all that is sacred tell the person you have an interest in. The advantage of the world opening up in this communication age is that no matter what your kink is, there is someone out there that will oblige it.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 8:27:54 PM)
When clever ole you figures out what the heck you actually want to talk about, let us know. Till then enjoy the cheap head games.

Stephann -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 8:40:11 PM)
Michael, Rest assured, if I knew an easier way to discuss the topic, I would have. The fact that I'm confused in the first place makes it a little difficult to be more clear. My apologies if you feel your time reading the thread was wasted, though the questions are posed honestly and in good faith. Feel free to write me on the other side if you're of a mind to flame further. Stephan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 8:41:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann What does it mean to be committed? Marriage, dating, monogamy, polygamy, the rules of commitment are clearly personal, unique, and no two couples are alike. Vanilla folk tend to have standard expectations regarding their commitments, though we know that relationships in the BDSM world often require a great deal more negotiation. For me it's all about that word you used "expectations." And IMO bdsm relationships do NOT require a great deal more negotiation. I think successful relationships require a lot of working together and communication, and the ones who try and skimp on this are doomed to fail. quote: How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? Once agreed upon, seriously important. If not agreed upon, then it means nothing because there is nothing to take seriously. quote: What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? The commitment is the set of expectations we have set for ourselves and eachother within the relationship. With my partner, it is a vast and deep one. With a person I fucked for 20 minutes a year ago, it is nothing.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 8:46:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann What does it mean to be committed? For me, it means that I have some degree of trust that the other person is willing to work to maintain a relationship with me by being open and honest about what they feel and do. quote: How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? By default, there must be commitment in order to have a relationship. quote: What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? The same role it has in any relationship I have...see above. Master Fire

juliaoceania -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:02:06 PM)
quote: How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? I request that before I become intimately involved with anyone that they ask themselves whether or not they can see a future with me, if they know that they can't I would ask for the respect of letting me know this so I can make an informed decision of whether or not to become intimate. I would choose not to become involved. I know what I want, and I am of the age I do not want to wait around on someone who is luke warm about me. quote: What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? It is an evolving thing for us, an ever deepening thing. It is something that must be built, and I am not about to take that for granted. Basically I want a life and a home with my Man. I want to be his lover, slut, submissive, friend, confidante. The trust grows and grows the longer we are seeing each other, and how wonderful that is.

hisannabelle -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:02:54 PM)
fastreply...just addressing the questions posed by the op, as i feel about them, because i think this is an interesting topic. What does it mean to be committed? to me and my primary partner, we are in a committed relationship because, although we are poly, our relationship is based on honesty and trust. we have built up a unique relationship (for us, unique from our past relationship experiences, i mean) that is invaluable to us and we work to preserve it because we want it to last in the long term...whether it's by doing our best to work out issues without jumping to conclusions, just listening to each other, communicating regularly, that type of thing. personally, to me, commitment means that i do things with my full heart in them...whether it's when i'm at work, at school, or whatever. How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? personally, it is very important. i would not necessarily desire and have not always desired a commitment from the few other partners i have had (while with my primary partner), although having another committed relationship is something i would like to pursue. but to me i consider commitment to be important for the same reasons i defined commitment as it is personally to me in the previous question...mainly because i think it's important both in relationship and in the tasks i take on in everyday life. within the boundaries of my primary relationship, commitment is paramount. the relationship wouldn't work at all without it because i wouldn't be comfy in a d/s relationship that didn't involve a great deal of commitment. What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? see above. :)

mstrjx -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:02:58 PM)
To me, commitment means monogamous to my partner, which I always have been. From there, it doesn't have to 'go' anywhere. I don't require marriage, but would if the other person thought she had/needed to. To me, just getting to that point (commitment) with someone I'd be happy with is fine. It would work itself out from there. Jeff

Lorelei115 -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann What does it mean to be committed? To me, being "commited" is when both parties agree to make the other a permanent part of their life. It does not imply exclusitivity (sp???) to me, although I know it does to many. How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? Fairly important. I like to have some constancy in my life. There are people I would like very much to have stick around for a long time to come. What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? Depends on which relationship. I have relationships with zero commitment, and I have relationships with heavy commitment. Hope this helps?

dawntreader -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx To me, just getting to that point (commitment) with someone I'd be happy with is fine. It would work itself out from there. Jeff i agree with this...

Stephann -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:22:39 PM)
Folks, Thanks for the great responses. I know there will be others, but this brings the second part to light; Considering commitment is valued so highly, do you believe that commitment for it's own sake plays a role in artificially holding relationships together? Today, I was in a conversation with some co-workers about marriage. One said he had been living with his girlfriend for the past three years. He has a child with her. He doesn't want to marry her, because he doesn't want to feel stuck with her, just because they are married. It's one side of that coin (the question here isn't about marriage, but rather the commitment marriage represents.) Yet, in feeling a strong commitment to another person, isn't there a strong incentive to remain in that relationship for commitment's sake; to be able to say "I've been with the same woman for three years" because you love the woman, is a wonderful thing. To say such as a badge of honor, doesn't say anything about the quality of the relationship. On the other hand, I was trying to consider the idea of a relationship with zero commitment past "today and tomorrow's phone call." If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? I hope this clarifies where the smoke billowing from my ears is coming from. Stephan

hisannabelle -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:38:11 PM)
Considering commitment is valued so highly, do you believe that commitment for it's own sake plays a role in artificially holding relationships together? i believe it can, but i don't believe it should. i think that people's commitments, like children, do more to hold a relationship together than their Commitment to each other. i agree with you that it's more important to say that you've been with the same person for x amount of time because you love them, rather than you've been with them because it's comfortable, or whatever. my partner and i have discussed not wanting to stay in a committed relationship simply because it's comfortable, not because we feel like it's an integral part of our life. but even without marriage, things like living together, children...even just planning for a future can all feel like a fetter when you want to break out of a committed relationship. for awhile i stayed with my previous dominant simply because i felt like it would be harder to break off the relationship than to keep going in it, until i realized what an unhealthy thing that is to hold onto. On the other hand, I was trying to consider a relationship with zero commitment past "today and tomorrow's phone call." If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? i do this anyway. my mother used to laugh at me, because i always tell people i love them before we hang up the phone or we leave each other...i do it with friends, family members, partners, anyone i love/am in love with, because i feel like if i love someone, they should know that. people who don't know me well find this -really- odd about me. i'll randomly tell people i love them in the middle of a conversation just because i feel they should know. i think it's important that, as long as it's sincere on my part, that be the last thing i ever say to someone in case something happens to them. to me, the fact that every time i see Him, it could very well be the last - i could have a heart attack, He could get involved in something sticky at work, i could get hit by a bus, etc. etc. makes it all that more important to treasure our relationship. and i treat every relationship like that...just because there is commitment in my relationships to people doesn't mean that i use that as a reason to take them for granted. that said, commitment to me isn't necessarily a statement of a bond, but rather the bond itself. now, if He and i were to get married, that would be a statement of the bond. but then again, so is His collar, etc. people just imbue value to things, you know? that's how humans function. we would have a religious marriage ceremony simply to affirm our commitment to each other because we feel that's important, and then be legally married when the time is right because, well, the contract with the state of legal marriage provides certain legal benefits that we can't get otherwise...doesn't really "affirm" our commitment to each other. and a collar is our affirmation simply because it's important to us, but that's not to say we couldn't be in a d/s relationship without having a collar, nor to say that we couldn't be in a committed relationship without planning to ever marry (religiously or legally).

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:41:55 PM)
quote: Considering commitment is valued so highly, do you believe that commitment for it's own sake plays a role in artificially holding relationships together? Yes. While this is well-intentioned, it often leads to more pain than honest healing. quote: If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? What makes it artificial? For me, when speaking of commitments based on love, it is all about giving everyone the opportunity to be true to themselves. If being true to themselves means NOT being with me, I must honor my commitment to that. I'd much prefer to set them free to find their bliss and remain committed to their sense of self rather than committed to some irrational notion of commitment which DENIES them who they truly are.

Wulfchyld -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:48:28 PM)
Okay I think I see where you are coming from now. I have very bad news for you. No matter how you see it working in your head it wont be that way. I hate to be the wet blanket here but that is how it is. You cannot predict how day-to-day life is going to mold and re-mold your relationship over time. The only thing you can count on is you. You have to decide what is acceptable in your life, define your parameters and taboo’s, and sit down with your partner and discuss these things. You have to decide how much integrity you are going to have in your life, your relationship, et al. Do not look for a fifty/fifty partner, that is a scam. That is someone who is going to want you to do 100% and they do as little as possible. Live your life 100% and choose a partner that is going to do the same. Don’t expect your partner to have dinner waiting on you when you get home. Be prepared to do it yourself, as with all else in your life. Now if your partner is of the same conviction then life will roll smoothly. You will not be able to avoid bad days, stuff happening, and life just smacking the hell out of you. Nevertheless you can maintain a sense of Awe about your partner. If you can keep that Awe you will be able to keep that “Special” feeling you want to cling to. Whatever your definition of D/s is it should still allow you to feel that sense of Awe over your Dominant as well as a Sub/slave. If you don’t feel that Awe should equate in your D/s relationship then it is time to rethink things. The most cruel and sadistic Masters feel a sense of Awe, as well as pride, in their Sub/Slaves. Without that we grow discontent and disconnected from them. Your eye will stray and until such a time as that sub/slave is gone they will not realize what they lost. Flame on Loki

dawntreader -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:53:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld Whatever your definition of D/s is it should still allow you to feel that sense of Awe over your Dominant as well as a Sub/slave. If you don’t feel that Awe should equate in your D/s relationship then it is time to rethink things. The most cruel and sadistic Masters feel a sense of Awe, as well as pride, in their Sub/Slaves. Without that we grow discontent and disconnected from them. Your eye will stray and until such a time as that sub/slave is gone they will not realize what they lost. Flame on Loki Well said. i think i needed to hear this tonight...

juliaoceania -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 9:58:22 PM)
quote: Considering commitment is valued so highly, do you believe that commitment for it's own sake plays a role in artificially holding relationships together? No I do not think that it does artificially keep it together. Recently I have come to some very large epiphanies regarding our relationship. I want him to be who he is, to create the life he wants, to do exactly what makes him satisfied and happy without my expectations foisted upon his head of what he "should" do. I want to know that he is completely and totally consenting to be with me in his heart, not because he made some promises to me that he feels the need to honor. This means that he may create another a life that I may not envision for myself, one that I could not be happy in, one that will conflict with my true self, but I still want him to do the things that make him happy. I find that anything else would be a falsity. I do not want to live that way. Commitment is something he is very capable of giving, and something I have shown time and again I am capable of too. I just want him to always be glad he made a commitment of any sort to me, not regret it. This attitude is one of gratitude... grateful for every day. The thing is we can tie someone to us with guilt, but either they leave anyways, or they hate you for it... who would want that? Not me... no I do not see commitment as artificial life support for a relationship... it is the understanding that glues it together, but it will not keep something together that defies what the people inside of it really feel. quote: On the other hand, I was trying to consider the idea of a relationship with zero commitment past "today and tomorrow's phone call." If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? The bond is not artificial. I have seen people close to me sustain relationships that lasted until one of them died. They had good times and bad times. One instance a couple I know extremely well separated for extreme reasons... he found out he was infertile, and developed a relationship outside the marriage.. it was a blow to him, it was a blow to his wife, they went their separate ways for 8 months.. they have been married now for 22 years... they love each other, they worked it out. That bond survived a lot... and it wouldn't of without "commitment", even when that commitment was shaken. That is just the thing, people have to work on it every day, and at the same time let each other be the people they are. It is a balance of sorts...

slavejali -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 10:47:32 PM)
quote: One said he had been living with his girlfriend for the past three years. He has a child with her. He doesn't want to marry her, because he doesn't want to feel stuck with her, just because they are married. Poor kid.... (Umm don't people get that children irrevocably entangle you with another for the rest of your life far more so than a marriage licence (no kids involved) ever would. Dumb Idiot) quote: On the other hand, I was trying to consider the idea of a relationship with zero commitment past "today and tomorrow's phone call." If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? There is an underlaying truth in that I think. It's kinda like feeling like death is looking over your shoulder, when you realise the potential of your mortality it oftentimes propels you to actually live life more fully..so in that respect I can understand applying that principal to relationship. Actually when I come to think about it, I've actually lived that way in relationship because the partner I had at the time had a terminal illness. So realistically we knew that any moment could be our last. It did make us very close because we ensured each moment was alive with meaning. However, when it comes to relationship, where death is not at your doorstep, you do not have to prepare yourself for an eventual separation that is not the choice of either of you but through a factor totally beyond your control....so with not having that as a factor, I think its natural for people who love each other to want to spend time together, make plans and follow goals and dreams together. That is part of life, part of relationship and commitment naturally entwines itself into that. If someone didn't want that, to me it would mean, tht they were only giving part of themselves and so were not commited and only having a less than whole relationship, they are only offering or taking a piece of the pie instead of the whole pie. yadda yadda yadda... Anyways I found this topic apt. I had to fill out an immigration form today and one the the questions I had to answer on it was "What was my level of commitment to my partner?" I said lots..but the end sentence was... "My commitment to him is total and I look forward to growing old and grey together and looking back on our life with a smile." So perhaps to me "commitment" means "enduring" (no thought of escape tsk tsk).

RumpusParable -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 11:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann This may seem like a mundane topic, but I have a feeling it will be turned on it's head before the week is over. I have a few questions on the topic. What does it mean to be committed? Marriage, dating, monogamy, polygamy, the rules of commitment are clearly personal, unique, and no two couples are alike. Vanilla folk tend to have standard expectations regarding their commitments, though we know that relationships in the BDSM world often require a great deal more negotiation. How important is commitment to you, both personally and within the boundaries of a relationship? What role does commitment play in your own dynamic? I do have a direction in mind for the conversation to go, as I actually have a couple other puzzles to resolve in my own mind. I'd like to hear what you folks have to say, first though. Stephan Thinking on this in terms of both my BDSM and vanilla life, the questions are entirely too broad and vague to answer clearly and accurately. I can give a bit of answering to them in reference to specific relationships at specific times, but I don't think that what you're looking for is a long-winded breakdown of every relationship each of us has with the type and level/manner of commitment they have... Could you be more specific about what you want to know?

RumpusParable -> RE: Commitment (2/1/2007 11:34:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Today, I was in a conversation with some co-workers about marriage. One said he had been living with his girlfriend for the past three years. He has a child with her. He doesn't want to marry her, because he doesn't want to feel stuck with her, just because they are married. It's one side of that coin (the question here isn't about marriage, but rather the commitment marriage represents.) Yet, in feeling a strong commitment to another person, isn't there a strong incentive to remain in that relationship for commitment's sake; to be able to say "I've been with the same woman for three years" because you love the woman, is a wonderful thing. To say such as a badge of honor, doesn't say anything about the quality of the relationship. Sadly, the vast, vast majority of marriages I've seen and known the members of have been in place purely because of the false commitment the word gives... using it for the "badge of honor/respect" it brings on it's face to some, the financial arrangements of it, or just plain fear of change. quote: On the other hand, I was trying to consider the idea of a relationship with zero commitment past "today and tomorrow's phone call." If you had to consider that every time you saw the person you loved, it could be the last, wouldn't it give a strong incentive to make the very best of it? That if a couple is together, because they truly enjoy each other, why the need for an artificial statement of that bond? Two different things brought up here. To the first, yes, I think relationships last better if all members remember that the other person(s) can leave whenever they want. This, however, is Not the same as "zero commitment". It's just not taking your partner for granted. You can have commitment and future plans and still keep in mind that tomorrow they could decide to leave, they could be hit by a bus, whatever, and put forth the effort and enjoy the moments you have together today. To the second, an officiated/registered marriage (not to be confused with the relationship of marriage) may or may not be an artificial bond. Whether or not it is comes from the where the relationship of the people involved is at, not the other way around.

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