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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:25:01 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Why is that the scientists from all over the world can only say that it is <very likely> that Global Warming is man made ?

Many collarme posters appear to believe that scientists are omniscient.
Scientists "know" that ....
Natural Selection is true.
How Electro Magnetic Forces work.
That a cataclysmic release of Energy, the Big Bang, occurred out of .... err err well absolutely nothing at all.
etc etc

Well I think it "very likely" that the weather is such a powerful system triggered by Solar radiation and atmospeheric conditions all stirred and shaken by rotational effects that it, the weather,  is just doing its own thing !!

Be still you puny humans  Terra Magnifica is about to start sweating !!!

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:36:17 AM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		It would appear the doom-mongers are capable of more accurate predictions than the science types they quote.

After all the worriers have been convinced of the problem for a couple of decades now, however the previous report was nowhere near as certain of its findings than the current one.

"Global climate change is "very likely" to have a human cause, an influential group of scientists has concluded." but they also admit that just 5 years ago there was no "very" in that statement, just a likely on its own.


So folks, next time you want the facts, dont ask a scientist, ask an activist, they will get to the same conclusion way in advance of any techinical study



Dont flame me, thats not a gobstopper in my cheek, merely a tongue


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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:50:25 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_sc/france_climate_change

But it's all just a lot of bullshit concocted by scientists in need of material for their research grants...


Julia just posted a thread about this with al gore as spokesman.   i looked at it and posed a few questions no one has yet to answer.  maybe someone can offer reasonable answers here.

i think there is not dispute that there is global warming.  i agree with that.

Where i find issue is that is man that is the cause.   Where i find dispute with your article is that it says nothing about the natural cycle of global warming as al gore states in his little doc.  In your article it is not a shared blame if you will but all mans fault.  That is a problem.

i asked 2 questions if i remember correctly.

First how much of this warming is due to the impact of man and how how much of this warming is due to the natural warming cycle?

We are still below the highest Hi point of the last natural warming cycle, so i expect it will go higher as a result of nature alone.   (the sun)

al gore shows co2 levels at double the amount it ever was on his charts but he does not show a corresponding temperature increase.

This can be seen in julias thread http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=793422

She gave me some reading since i never really looked into it before serioulsy and the carbon cycle and from a quick glance at it i was impressed that when we have global warming that more humidity is produced and it ultimately reaches a point where this increase in humidity creates more cirrus clouds in the upper atmosphere which form ice crystals that reflect the sun back into outer space thus maintaing the earths tempreature.

So i would like to hear commone on those 2 points.

1) why is there not already a corresponding temperature increase since co2 is twice as high as previous record hoghs?
Is the carbon cycle write up incorrect where as will the humidity cause more hi clouds and help cool us back down?

From a quick glance at all this since al does not have a corresponding heat rise even tho co2 has doubled, and the carbon cycle seems to indicate increased humidy will cause cooling i have doubts about all this until i can get some kind of confirmation.

Last we know its not all man that much is natural, how much is caused by man?

i think to be resaonable those questions i pose have to be answered to academic satisfaction, until i see a report that includes addressing all of these points as well as temperature and co2 cycle data etc, in one article i am skeptical its just fear mongering so someone highly vested in the cleanup biz can make bucks.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/2/2007 10:53:30 AM >

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 1:56:48 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's not MY article.

There is a ton of research on this question, Real0ne; if you want real studies to read, e-mail me offline and I'll give you links.  Otherwise, I'll pass.  I've gotten into too many unproductive debates about global warming with people whose main impulse is to stick their hand in the sand--or else talk about how the free market will surely solve the problem if there even is one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Where i find issue is that is man that is the cause.   Where i find dispute with your article is that it says nothing about the natural cycle of global warming as al gore states in his little doc.  In your article it is not a shared blame if you will but all mans fault.  That is a problem.

i asked 2 questions if i remember correctly.

First how much of this warming is due to the impact of man and how how much of this warming is due to the natural warming cycle?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 1:59:53 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Let's face it, we as a human race have overstayed our welcome on this planet. No wonder they are trying to colonize Mars or the Moon or some other outerspace place  heh


I spoke with God about this.. He said that since we didn't take care of this planet....He's not going to let us have another one...

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I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 2:04:58 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		I totally agree about the point of which scientific researchers are scaremongering to get their grants in order to come to no conclusion whatsoever... stop all the panic people, lets not get our knickers in a twist (underpants for our American cousins)  there is a simple explanation as to why the water levels are rising and we are experiencing warmer climates, its painfully obvious! ... GOD, his angels, the demons and the Devil are having a ruddy big war and we are all about to feel their wrath!! ..Honestly you guys make a mountain out of a mole hill sometimes...sheesh!

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 2:27:26 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
I spoke with God about this.. He said that since we didn't take care of this planet....He's not going to let us have another one...
Quite.
 
Colonization is not an option at this moment of human evolution and development. It will not be allowed.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 3:25:44 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Let's face it, we as a human race have overstayed our welcome on this planet. No wonder they are trying to colonize Mars or the Moon or some other outerspace place  heh


I spoke with God about this.. He said that since we didn't take care of this planet....He's not going to let us have another one...



Thats ok, I am not normally resident on this planet, so like any smart vacationer soon as the weather gets too much I shall just head on home and put my feet up in front of the fire with my duty free cigars & brandy.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 3:31:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

I totally agree about the point of which scientific researchers are scaremongering to get their grants in order to come to no conclusion whatsoever... stop all the panic people, lets not get our knickers in a twist (underpants for our American cousins)  there is a simple explanation as to why the water levels are rising and we are experiencing warmer climates, its painfully obvious! ... GOD, his angels, the demons and the Devil are having a ruddy big war and we are all about to feel their wrath!! ..Honestly you guys make a mountain out of a mole hill sometimes...sheesh!


well i htink the worry is that over 100 million people will lose their homes...for one, but on the brite side all the greatest illuminati investments are all on the coastal areas and it is them who will get the hardest... so i suppose there is brite side to all this


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 3:44:02 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Well I think it "very likely" that the weather is such a powerful system triggered by Solar radiation and atmospeheric conditions all stirred and shaken by rotational effects that it, the weather,  is just doing its own thing !!

Be still you puny humans  Terra Magnifica is about to start sweating !!!



And where did you get this information from seeks?

Those same flawed scientists maybe?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 4:35:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's not MY article.

There is a ton of research on this question, Real0ne; if you want real studies to read, e-mail me offline and I'll give you links.  Otherwise, I'll pass.  I've gotten into too many unproductive debates about global warming with people whose main impulse is to stick their hand in the sand--or else talk about how the free market will surely solve the problem if there even is one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Where i find issue is that is man that is the cause.   Where i find dispute with your article is that it says nothing about the natural cycle of global warming as al gore states in his little doc.  In your article it is not a shared blame if you will but all mans fault.  That is a problem.

i asked 2 questions if i remember correctly.

First how much of this warming is due to the impact of man and how how much of this warming is due to the natural warming cycle?



do you have something that specificaly addresses my 2 or was it 3 now i forgot main questions?  That i woudl be interested in.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 9:23:56 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		If you were to ever major in any field of science, the first thing that will be taught is that a hypothesis is never proven or disproven. It is either supported or not supported.
That is the most fundamental part of the scientific method. Yet it appears scientists claim to be absolutely certain that global warming is man-made.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 9:39:42 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Let's face it, we as a human race have overstayed our welcome on this planet. No wonder they are trying to colonize Mars or the Moon or some other outerspace place  heh


Between global warming and the Middle East, we better find another planet soon.

_____________________________

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(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 9:46:47 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

If you were to ever major in any field of science, the first thing that will be taught is that a hypothesis is never proven or disproven. It is either supported or not supported.
That is the most fundamental part of the scientific method. Yet it appears scientists claim to be absolutely certain that global warming is man-made.


well of all people it loosk like major tree hugger al gore would be in disagreement with you since he claims that there is also a natural warming trend going on.  go figure.

i dont see how that has anything to do with my questions, that and i did not disagree that man is playing apart, i just want to quantify it.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:19:21 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Enough really to make a persons eyes bug out honestly. At what point do us intelligent humans come to the understanding that A. is no longer a issue, and it's now time to work on B.

Man made or natural. The dispute isn't that it isn't happening, nor that it did happen in the past, as that part I think we agree is indeed factual.

So now what? I am inclined to think that exerting energy into a "simple slow down" is fruitless because it does not stop the accepted inevitable.

So now what? "blink" "blink" "blink" "blink" "blink"............When it happens..Aaagain..there will be mass death and destruction all over the globe. Furtile regions will be devoured by sea, or desolate heat, and current desolate area's will become furtile, and lush. People will live through it all, rebuild, and move on hopefully alittle wiser or knowledgeable.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/2/2007 10:20:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:35:01 PM   
kindaeasy69


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		According to one local news station here in Houston for Feb 3, 2007:

Normal Low: 42
Forecasted Low: 34
Current Temp: 39

If this is the result of global warming....I want my money back!

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: latest global warming report - 2/3/2007 5:54:22 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Scientists very rarly say thy are 100% right, the more knowledge you have the greater your ability to accpt you know little. The less knowlege you have the more you rely upon superstition, faith and belief.

www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf      Climate Change 2007:the Physical Science Basis As with most good research the extremes of estimates of the range of possibilities are becoming more or less provable. 

I love the coments in some of these threads about wanting to do the math, or using three lines to disprove a theory because your old Aunt Mable didn't need a coat today but did yesterday.

The rest of the IPCC reports will also be updated during 2007. The main problem with the IPCC is that it takes so long for concensus and verification of all the data sources that the reports are seperated by too much time.

Many oil comanies are now planning there next round of activities based upon climate change - including human caused climate change - it opens up the economics of extracting from previously non economical deposits etc and energy efficieny and fuel costs mean recovering more oil from other previously economically exhausted reserves will become viable.

One of the great contributions of the Web is that it has spread the concept of Noble Ignorance, spread it to all corners of the world and turned it into an art form, how many posts are based on knowledge and how many on the inbility to think for your self. Lets start buying the insurance incase the scientists are right (even partially right). Of course the problem in the US is that they have a culture of wanting things for nothing but at the same time believe they earn everything they have........  :) have a nice day ya al.     :)


(in reply to kindaeasy69)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: latest global warming report - 2/3/2007 7:46:38 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

If you were to ever major in any field of science, the first thing that will be taught is that a hypothesis is never proven or disproven. It is either supported or not supported.
That is the most fundamental part of the scientific method. Yet it appears scientists claim to be absolutely certain that global warming is man-made.


well of all people it loosk like major tree hugger al gore would be in disagreement with you since he claims that there is also a natural warming trend going on.  go figure.

i dont see how that has anything to do with my questions, that and i did not disagree that man is playing apart, i just want to quantify it.



My point is that climate change has become more than science, it is now political. And politics is so screwed up that we cannot even decide if a fetus is alive or that we should persue stem-cell research. Yet you expect the same realm to determine the truth on climate change?
In the abortion debate, it has come to a point where the people who favor it will never change their beliefs and the people who are against it will also never change their beliefs. So that issue will never be solved.
Same thing is happening with climate change. Everyone on both sides of the debate have dug their heels in and neither side will change their mind no matter what evidence for or against is put forward.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: latest global warming report - 2/3/2007 8:21:03 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		And also, if Global Warming was man-caused... I think we are well beyond the point of no return. It is easy to sit there and cry about how people are too lazy to change their lifestyles, but right now, people and the government do not have the money to drop their cars and change their way of life. Many people commute to their jobs everyday. Without their car, they loose their job. And they don't have the money to go out and buy a fuel-efficient car.

It will be 30 years at least before the world is able to switch to alternative energy. It took Brazil over 30 years to get off oil dependance. So by the time the world makes the changes that this climate report is demanding, it will be well past the point of no return.

This should have been done when Jimmy Carter was talking about it in the 1970s. The governments around the world dropped the ball.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: latest global warming report - 2/3/2007 10:31:00 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Without their car, they loose their job. And they don't have the money to go out and buy a fuel-efficient car.
smaller efficient cars and car share costs less than owning large gas guzzler. set incentives to invest in fuel efficient vehicle - doubling pprice of gas in next three years would be an example - spend additional tax on health care and reducing other taxes for middle and low earners.

It will be 30 years at least before the world is able to switch to alternative energy. It took Brazil over 30 years to get off oil dependance. So by the time the world makes the changes that this climate report is demanding, it will be well past the point of no return. Reducing use rather than alternative use seems ...........quicker.

This should have been done when Jimmy Carter was talking about it in the 1970s. The governments around the world dropped the ball. Climate chanhge science in the 70s - well in the 80s absorbtion by the oceans was going to solve the proble. Once the problem has been identified and quantified then you can act. - thats the last 5 years
 
 

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 40
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