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Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:33:41 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I often see the statement, "slaves have no rights."  However, I don't have a good appreciation of what other people mean when they say that someone has no rights. 

Hopefully without diverging into a debate on what a slave is or isn't...  Can you explain what this expression means to you?

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:41:17 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		she trusts in Me to the extent that they are not needed. Wether she likes or agrees about any decision isn't the issue, she WILL comply... because she trusts Me.... she does have one right... the same right as any consentual situation, if she ever looses that trust, she can walk away... that is her only right... a right she chooses to ignore because it isn't relevant. If she believed I would ever abuse that trust to the extent it would be needed then she couldn't have got to the point of trusting Me with her whole life being placed in My hands.

What she has a right to = Nothing.
What she knows Me well enough to place her trust in is a person who will handle that responcibly and for BOTH our benifits and the benifit of the overall relationship. My needs come first... but her needs are something I have also taken the responcibility for and... when and as I wish, they get addressed too. But by My CHOISE, not by her having any RIGHT to them.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:42:40 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		When I hear people say that "slaves have no rights" to me it means that they are saying that slaves are purely objects or property, not human beings. A robot if you will that does what it is programmed to do. As long as this robot functions as its supposed to things are wonderful, if it does not then the Owner simply does away with it and replaces it.

As far as I am concerned slaves do have rights. They have the right to enter into servitude and the right to leave it. I have heard some forms of TPE say that a slave cannot leave unless his/her Owner releases them. I cannot fathom keeping a slave that did not want to be owned by me. But to each their own.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:44:12 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see the statement, "slaves have no rights."  However, I don't have a good appreciation of what other people mean when they say that someone has no rights. 

Hopefully without diverging into a debate on what a slave is or isn't...  Can you explain what this expression means to you?

Knight's kyra


I use the Miranda Warning as a basis. You know, the one that says you have the right to remain silent, have an attorney present during questioning etc, etc. then there's that little blub about "if you choose to give up those rights" then anything you say can be used against you in a court of law.

I've chosen to give up my inalienable rights which are granted to me by the Constitution with the cavaet that by so doing, I actually exercise my right to pursue happiness.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:49:48 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's the same as limits for me- you have the rights you agreed to have.

If that means in your relationship you have or don't have the rights your master gives you, then so be it.

Trying to apply legal rights doesn't wash out of course, but it never does in discussions involving personal choice. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:52:30 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I have heard some forms of TPE say that a slave cannot leave unless his/her Owner releases them. I cannot fathom keeping a slave that did not want to be owned by me.


Probably going to get right up some folks nose with this but the whole "Can't leave " thing is fantasy bullshit at best and nasty manipulative tripe at worst... put rules around how it is done, certainly as such might help prevent a girl making a hasty and irevokeable mistake, but the route out must be there else it isn't consentual.... even if it isn't acknowledged....... the law of the land (On both sides of the pond) ensures this. If she is adamant about leaving and you won't let her... your looking to play "wheres the soap?" with bubba your future cellmate!

In My own TPE it is the only 'right' My girl has.... and even then it was ME who had to put it in place, she didn't want it... till I explained that without it there can be no real consent.... with it, so long as she stays I have clear consent. Once she understood, she had no problem with it... especialy when I told her she could ignore it if she wished, but that it was THERE wether she ignored it or not.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:58:39 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see the statement, "slaves have no rights."  However, I don't have a good appreciation of what other people mean when they say that someone has no rights. 

Hopefully without diverging into a debate on what a slave is or isn't...  Can you explain what this expression means to you?

Knight's kyra


Personally, what it means is most shortly summed up as this:

All slaves have the ability and right to end their service, but so long as in my service there is no other way but mine.

Do I take into serious consideration the wants and needs of a slave?  Yes, but so long as they stay with me they will abide by my decisions, happy or not.  I am the last authority on all things, they give over all but their ultimate right of walking away.

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 12:59:35 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see the statement, "slaves have no rights."  However, I don't have a good appreciation of what other people mean when they say that someone has no rights. 

Hopefully without diverging into a debate on what a slave is or isn't...  Can you explain what this expression means to you?

Knight's kyra


To me, this means they are equivalent to something that has no spiritual energy. In my belief system, almost everything, rocks, plants, animals, etc., has spiritual energy and thus has a right to be treated with respect. Things, however, like my car, I don't see as having any rights. My cats, the trees on my land and the rocks in my medicine wheel do. Now, why I feel that my car doesn't have a spirit, I dunno...but even with that, I treat it fairly well and maintain it in working order.

I'm just not able to lower a person to such a status as "no rights" in my head. Now, they can choose to turn over those rights to me...but that doesn't mean they don't have them. It simply means I have control of them...or authority over them, as LA would say. In the end, I still feel that there is one right the slave always maintains: to obey or not. If you take that away, then the obedience means nothing for they didn't CHOOSE to do it.

Clear as mud, maybe?

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:02:24 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

In the end, I still feel that there is one right the slave always maintains: to obey or not. If you take that away, then the obedience means nothing for they didn't CHOOSE to do it.



Clear as can be, here!  I much agree especially with this last sentiment you expressed. 

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:08:14 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I know I have ran into the no rights mean once own actually means pretty much the literal interpretation but have really not seen a long term relationship truly live that. To me it is of made up fantasy or at best twisting the facts to make it look like you live that way.

For me personally, I view no rights as both parties being one hundred percent committed to the power exchange that was agreed to. In other words, once owned I must accept all decisions and orders my Master decides as long as it is in the framework of what we have both accepted. Now for me this is pretty inclusive but I leave out my job and decisions on family contact.

The truth though this is a lot of semantics and living in fantasy and not reality. I always get a kick out people who write the first major screw up you will be released. So if you are with someone for ten years, care for them greatly and have unmentionables you might toss them aside for one screw up? Also, we pound communication and a slave expressing their needs or problems so while the owner may make sure they get addressed that area really is in some way a right of a slave? Yes, in the end the owner is the one making the decision but is that not really semantics?

I may get flamed for this but the whole idea of a slave has one choice and that is to leave or the must ask for release to be fantasy at best and at worst a sign of mental issues on one or both of the participants. If someone cannot leave on their own free will they have such mental issues that they need medical attention.




_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:24:44 PM   
bearincuffs


Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see the statement, "slaves have no rights."  However, I don't have a good appreciation of what other people mean when they say that someone has no rights. 

Hopefully without diverging into a debate on what a slave is or isn't...  Can you explain what this expression means to you?

Knight's kyra


My own meaning to this staement is I am to have total trust and give total control over to Master. where his wants and needs are also to be my wants and needs. Everything is about Master and what He wants and is. In most ways, I am His property to use as Master ses fit and I will be used according to His wishes.
        

_____________________________

property of Master Dave of the House of Gemini

An it harm none, do as thou wilt
Do what you will, so long as it harms none
An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:33:39 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		To me, while ownership rights are all encompassing and a necessary part of the M/s relationship dynamic, it's also theoretical because A) slave ownership is not legally enforcable and B), I'm still not an abusive arsehole anyway.  So in theory she has no rights as my slave but the fact is she can choose not to be my slave anytime, as well.  But only once!
 
Focus.

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:36:19 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		Bingo Focus!

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:36:45 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		They have whatever rights they negotiated in the beginning. In my relationship that means that he can't make decisions about my offspring. He can offer suggestions, and as the only stable male figure my kids have known in a long time he can and does serve as a role model.

He also can't take control of my assets.

In addition, he can't change his mind on major things without getting my approval. We're monogamous, so he can't say "By the way, I now expect you to have a threesome with this other girl". I would interpret that as him having lied to me from the beginning and I'm not staying with someone who deliberately lied to me, having a hidden agenda from the beginning. It would mean that the man I had committed to was not actually this man, and the liar was not a man I had ever given a commitment to.

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:41:40 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		when i say "a slave has no rights", i am referring to the things that most tend to think of as basic human rights, or freedoms if you will. such as the right to disobey or say no, the right to control one's own life and shape one's own destiny, and yes the right to leave. i understand that others have different ways and beliefs, but this is what the words have always meant to me.


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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 1:48:14 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

when i say "a slave has no rights", i am referring to the things that most tend to think of as basic human rights, or freedoms if you will. such as the right to disobey or say no, the right to control one's own life and shape one's own destiny, and yes the right to leave. i understand that others have different ways and beliefs, but this is what the words have always meant to me.



You have all those rights. They may come with consequences, but that is just life. You have a right to tell the government "No" but have to face those consequences as well.
 
As a slave you are just identifying a new Master. All people have Masters, and those Masters have the right to punish and even kill you. The solace you can find in D/s, is unlike the government, your Master will be more lenient on you.

Loki

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 2:08:56 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		a slave has no rights = everything is a priveledge that can be taken away, if the Master so chooses. 




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My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 2:45:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I view "no rights" much the same as any BDSM phrase - it's defination is up for grabs and most everyone has a slightly different view. If I were a single mother entering into a D/s relationship, my dominant/master would never have rights to my children or rights to prevent me from being their mother. Nor would he ever have the right to do anything that could my children taken away from me.

In my actual situation (we don't call each other master/slave, though I feel the dynamic is similar so you can take everything with a grain of salt if you like), I have the right to leave and the right to see my family and friends. In my opinion those are the minimum of rights to ensure mental health and happiness for those involved. Everything else are privileges that he awards based on my skill in particular areas, respect for my thinking abilities and the valuing the importance of another view.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 3:05:09 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Just because a sub does not choose to excersise certain rights, does not mean they don't exist.  When a Dom never asks anything of his sub that would seriously hurt her and never refuses her anything that she really needs, he by default acknowledges she has rights. The right not to be abused, the right to look after her health, the right to live...etc.  By saying a sub can Leave of her own choosing over anything you do that she objects to...is acknowledging free will.  She stays by consent. Are you going to ask her things she can't consent to...not likely.

Statements like "you have no rights but the one's I give you"...is pure retoric.  It isn't the Dom giving out rights...it's the sub giving up certain rights. You can tell your slave that she must report to you at 12 noon every day. Her job may not allow that. So she comes back with 2:30...asking you. "Will that work ,Sir" She is negotiating what she actually Can do to make the dynamic work. 

In other words, these relationships are not black and white. If your slave says No, and you won't listen to the point she heads out the door, what exactly have you proven?  Lets see, you've proven she has rights, and just excersised one of them. Incidently, if it goes that far, you've also proven she is stronger than you.

This is BDSM slavery, not Real historical slavery.

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RE: Have No Rights - 2/2/2007 3:13:48 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
To me, this means they are equivalent to something that has no spiritual energy.


Perfectly phrased and I agree with every word of your post.

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