Is religion the route of all evil and all the troubles in our world?

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Is religion the route of all evil and all the troubles ... - 2/3/2007 12:20:15 PM

seekstofasn8adom

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As for example many people who go to church every sunday and pretend to be do gooders.They are the ones who criticise and fight and squabble with their neighbours.So while this is the case there will always be trouble in this world,and never ever will we have world peace.As a small faction of extremeists are always in conflict with other religions and people with different views/opinions of our world.

I think the world is a really lovely wonderful place it's just a shame about some of the people in this world,that is where the problem lies here.But i don't want to bore everyone to much by carrying on please kindly have your say,what does everyonelse think about what i have said?Thanks for all replies here.

< Message edited by seekstofasn8adom -- 2/3/2007 12:22:23 PM >

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:23:11 PM

dcnovice

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I think religion can, alas, spark evil or, probably more often, provide a cover it. But I don't think it's the sole root of evil. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China managed to do a fair amount of evil without being religious.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:27:31 PM

JohnWarren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think religion can, alas, spark evil or, probably more often, provide a cover it. But I don't think it's the sole root of evil. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China managed to do a fair amount of evil without being religious.

Depends on what you call a religion. To my lights, communism is a religion since it depends on revealed wisdom and discourages independent thought. It also has its saints and its followers hate "heretics" more than they hate the other belief systems

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:32:06 PM

dcnovice

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Communism, though, lacks a belief in God, which strikes me as a fairly key ingredient in a religion.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:33:25 PM

Wulfchyld

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Is religion the route of all evil and all the troubles in our world?

Yes!

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:33:38 PM

NorthernGent

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No. Organised religion is not the cause but it plays a role as follows:

1) It is an element of ethnicity and cause of ethnic division.

2) It is a ready-made tool to herd the masses behind a banner.

Putting this in perspective, there are other issues e.g. the chase for material wealth (we're all culpable).

In terms of the hypocrisy point, this is not unique to church goers.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:38:26 PM

dcnovice

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One could also invert the OP's qustion by asking whether religion is root of all good in the world. After all, just about any human ideal I can think of (that human life has value, that people have rights, that people deserve to be treated fairly, etc.) is an unprovable axiom taken on faith.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 2/3/2007 12:47:12 PM >

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:43:19 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think religion can, alas, spark evil or, probably more often, provide a cover it. But I don't think it's the sole root of evil. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China managed to do a fair amount of evil without being religious.

Depends on what you call a religion. To my lights, communism is a religion since it depends on revealed wisdom and discourages independent thought. It also has its saints and its followers hate "heretics" more than they hate the other belief systems

Communism in principle doesn't discourage independent thought. The discouragement is the result of corrupt despots (e.g. stalin) who operate a distorted version of communism (one that is propped up by crushing political opposition and preventing external ideas from entering the system).

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/3/2007 12:49:32 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

One could also invert the OP's qustion by asking whether religion is root of all good in the world. After all, just about any human ideal I can think of (that human life has value, that people have rights, that people deserve to be treat fairly, etc.) is an unprovable axiom taken on faith.

You'll find some mileage in this in Britain at the turn of the twentieth century. Many socialists defined themselves as "Christian Socialists" i.e. they believed that Christianity and Socialism are compatible in that they share values of charity, equality, compassion etc.

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/5/2007 8:36:45 AM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekstofasn8adom

As for example many people who go to church every sunday and pretend to be do gooders.They are the ones who criticise and fight and squabble with their neighbours.So while this is the case there will always be trouble in this world,and never ever will we have world peace.As a small faction of extremeists are always in conflict with other religions and people with different views/opinions of our world.

I think the world is a really lovely wonderful place it's just a shame about some of the people in this world,that is where the problem lies here.But i don't want to bore everyone to much by carrying on please kindly have your say,what does everyonelse think about what i have said?Thanks for all replies here.

World peace starts in the hearts of individual people...one person at a time. Jesus, a wise man even if you don't think he's the Messiah, once said, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" This is very hard to do when you're afraid to look into your own heart. When we each learn to do this, the world will begin to heal and change.

Master Fire

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/5/2007 8:56:16 AM

Rule

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Satan is at the source of all evil, by definition. However, it was the Creator whom created Satan.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/6/2007 4:13:49 PM

JohnWarren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Communism, though, lacks a belief in God, which strikes me as a fairly key ingredient in a religion.

Taoism, many branches of Buddism, Scientology, K'ung-fu-tzu, and I'm sure a few others

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/6/2007 5:24:04 PM

LDRandAstarte

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The original question, " Is religion the route of all evil and all the troubles in our world?”.
The answer, without any superfluous hyperbole is, No it is evil people that is the root of all evil and all the troubles in the world today!

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/6/2007 6:51:46 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Communism, though, lacks a belief in God, which strikes me as a fairly key ingredient in a religion.

Taoism, many branches of Buddism, Scientology, K'ung-fu-tzu, and I'm sure a few others

John ---

Good point. Of the traditions you've named, I'm most familiar with Taoism, and there are passages in the Tao Te Ching that make the Tao sound otherworldly, if not divine in a personal way.

"And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away." (XVI)

"Something mysteriously formed,
Before heaven and earth.
In the silence and the void,
Standing alone and unchanging,
Ever present and in motion.
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things.
I do not know its name
Call it Tao." (XXIV)

The latter passage reminds me a bit of the prologue to John's gospel! It does seem to suggest a belief in a supernatural (supranatural?) force or presence in a way that I don't think Communism does.

But I'm no expert in Eastern relgion, so I could be completely off-base.

Still having trouble seeing communism as a religion, though.

Cheers,

DC

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to JohnWarren)

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/6/2007 7:00:33 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekstofasn8adom

As for example many people who go to church every sunday and pretend to be do gooders.They are the ones who criticise and fight and squabble with their neighbours.So while this is the case there will always be trouble in this world,and never ever will we have world peace.As a small faction of extremeists are always in conflict with other religions and people with different views/opinions of our world.

I think the world is a really lovely wonderful place it's just a shame about some of the people in this world,that is where the problem lies here.But i don't want to bore everyone to much by carrying on please kindly have your say,what does everyonelse think about what i have said?Thanks for all replies here.

Route 666, presumably.

How about simplistic bullshit as a substitute for thinking and caring? Think that might interfere with Good sometimes?

(in reply to seekstofasn8adom)

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/7/2007 10:42:05 PM

Marc2b

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Some religions have certainly been a source of great evil but in my view these religions are merely the surface layer of the true problem – the ideology. By ideology I mean, a system of belief that closes itself off from outside feedback (the ideology is always right) and serves the need of the individual to be superior (morally or otherwise) to, and to dominate, others by being part of a greater whole. In the worst cases it gives the individual leave to satisfy sadistic desires at the expense of others because those others – the unbelievers – are evil for opposing the ideology.

Communism and Nazism are ideologies but so are fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. Look at what they have (or have had) in common. A god: the State, Der Fuhrer, the Father, Allah, An enemy: capitalists, Jews, heretics, infidels (all of which can be grouped under the label, unbelivers), a priesthood (to reveal the "truth" to the believers): the Communist party, the Nazi party, the Vatican, the Mullahs), a "secret" police force to keep the believers (or, at least, the acquiescent) in line: the KGB, the Gestapo, the Inquisition, the Mutaween (Saudi religious police).

All at one time or another have engaged in mass murder. Unrestrained ideologies sooner or later decide to make the world a better place by solving the unbeliever problem once and for all.

The last two only occur if the ideology gains power over others. The secret police isn’t needed for the core of true believers (although they are often used in the power struggles of the true believers – history is replete with the losers of power struggles being labeled as heretics, and dealt with accordingly), and mass murder (on the scale of the Holocaust or the Inquisition) requires the power of the State behind it.

Although many ideologies have not yet engaged in mass murder (lacking the power to do so) or have a secret police, you can still find the above pattern in many of the political/religious/social philosophies around you. Consider two examples:

Environmentalists. The god: the Earth (or nature), the enemy: capitalists, the priesthood: environmental organizations.

Capitalists: The god: profit, the enemy: Marxists, the priesthood: business leaders.

So long as we continue to repeat this pattern, we are doomed to repeat history.

Shakespeare hit the nail on the head: the fault lies not in the stars but within ourselves.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/8/2007 1:29:12 AM

RubberWitch

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Actually pickling is the route of all evil

When food could not be preserved, there was no need to gather more than one could eat. It was possible that some people may have tried, but when they were rewarded with maggoty meat and stinking sludge that used to be good boar and apples, they'd soon stop, or drop dead from eating rotten food.
There was no need to stockpile, and whilst you would still be tempted to steal from others when you did not have enough, this is self preservation, and morally excuseable.
When some smart cookie worked out preservation methods, all the rules changed. Yes, he now had the security of knowing he'd have food today, food tomorrow, and food whenever, but...
Instead of just taking the apples you need for the day, or even the apples you need for the year, the temptation to just take ALL the apples is far too great.
Now you have a situation where you have riches. and poverty, because when someone has all the apples, that means someone has none of them. If you want them, you have to trade. or steal. (OK, so far, we've hit Greed, Gluttony, Jealousy, and when the pickler discovers half his apples have been stolen, Wrath lets see how far we can go with this)
Of course, with the rich selling to the poor, there is a level of enforced control. The ability to set prices, choose and refuse custom and control quality of product all rest with the rich. This is the main evil that communism was supposed to cure.
So what have the poor got left to sell? Your body, mind and soul are the only things you have. You could work for your food, usually picking and preparing the very food that nature decrees is yours, thus creating wealth for the original pickler, whilst he has no actual responsibilities for his work (and if he's got no reason to work, I think we've just hit Sloth), but this also leads to sycophancy (literally), prostitution (Hey, we just hit Lust),
I know I've only explained pickling as the route of 6 of the deadly sins, but still I think its a good explanation of the reasons behind the state of the world today, and I'm pretty proud of it if I do say so myself

RW

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/8/2007 2:56:55 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekstofasn8adom

As for example many people who go to church every sunday and pretend to be do gooders.They are the ones who criticise and fight and squabble with their neighbours.So while this is the case there will always be trouble in this world,and never ever will we have world peace.As a small faction of extremeists are always in conflict with other religions and people with different views/opinions of our world.

I think the world is a really lovely wonderful place it's just a shame about some of the people in this world,that is where the problem lies here.But i don't want to bore everyone to much by carrying on please kindly have your say,what does everyonelse think about what i have said?Thanks for all replies here.

World peace starts in the hearts of individual people...one person at a time. Jesus, a wise man even if you don't think he's the Messiah, once said, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" This is very hard to do when you're afraid to look into your own heart. When we each learn to do this, the world will begin to heal and change.

Master Fire

Very well said, Fire.

Many are those who have used religion as a way to commit horror on others; many are those whose faith has helped inform and guide compassion, gentleness, and courage. Always better to look at a specific that is giving you a problem than label something as diverse as religion as the problem.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/8/2007 4:02:13 AM

twicehappy

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No, mankind is.

There is no one thing, organization, religion etc that is the root of all evil. It is the human element that can and does make anything either good or evil.

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RE: Is religion the route of all evil and all the troub... - 2/8/2007 8:19:43 AM

LaTigresse

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Similarly I will say that it is the people, in the name of religoun.....using it as an excuse to do their evil, that is the problem.

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