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RE: The Married Master - Bad Idea? To SirKenin, Proud ... - 3/9/2005 2:06:27 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		Rose, it sounds to me like you are taking a good approach to this situation. However, having been there myself, i still feel you will find yourself much more fulfilled in a real life D/s relationship. He can still be your friend and mentor, as my online dom still is for me. Good luck with it.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 21
From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/12/2005 1:13:20 PM   
DocWatson


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/12/2005
From: NoVA
Status: offline 		This is a copy of a post in a similar thread and I stand behind it.

The reality for some of us is that we have 'nilla spouses, successful careers, excellent families, positions of responsibility in the Church and Society, along with a whole collection of years of 'nilla life; then we woke up and found that we weren't 'weird', 'freaks', or subject to DSM-3. We also weren't ready to throw out our marriages, our kids' lives, our careers, and our social positions and contacts over a driving need to dominate - or submit to - another person

So we have three choices; Practice the lifestyle covertly, practice it openly and risk divorce and the loss of *everything* we have worked so hard for, or suffer.

Somehow, I think that rational adults who understand the mechanics of the real world would be able to accomodate each other within clearly defined, and mutually agreeable, consensual limits. I am open about my married status and I will let someone who can be rational and objective about it judge for themselves as to whether or not they want to be friends, advisors, or playmates or, best of all, all three.

< Message edited by DocWatson -- 3/12/2005 1:14:15 PM >

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/12/2005 1:55:46 PM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am pulling the text from this discussion. You can all debate it as much as you want. Since I posted this without my Master's knowledge, he did not consent to it, nor could he explain his position. It seems unfair in retrospect.

< Message edited by FragileRose -- 3/13/2005 7:23:46 PM >

(in reply to DocWatson)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/12/2005 8:58:34 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		Hi Rose,
Your dom is sounding more and more like my former online dom. I know the sub he took on after me was named rose, so i need to ask you, does he live in Minnesota?

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 8:35:59 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

He gets a broken heart, too, each time the loses a beloved submissive to someone that can give her a 24/7 relationship - and it has happened with each and every one. He is bracing himself, I can tell, for the day when I too ask for release.


And the fact that you are aware and a willing participant in his emotional masochistic trance.....and willing to conspire with him to "cheat" on his wife in order to fulfill it, sounds like a familiar story. You are that bitch in the hotel room with this slave's ex-husband, after being confronted that an affair-of-some-sort (heart or mind or pink bits) was going on behind this slave's back, coolly dismissing the whole thing as meaning nothing to her after the relationship has come to light (and even before, because how many times had it gone on when it wasn't discovered???)and able to move on past it much easier than everyone else involved. this slave had one question for her------"why didn't you choose a single man? there are plenty of them out there."
quote:

He wants some pleasure and play that he cannot get in the marriage.


and if his version of pleasure and play was 180 mph on the freeway, smoking crack or gang-banging with 16 year old boys, providing security for a clandestine meth lab or back alley abortion clinic(all in his spare time, mind you) .......would it still be acceptable?

Have you ever put your self in her sneakers?

(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 9:54:48 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

This is a copy of a post in a similar thread and I stand behind it.

The reality for some of us is that we have 'nilla spouses, successful careers, excellent families, positions of responsibility in the Church and Society, along with a whole collection of years of 'nilla life; then we woke up and found that we weren't 'weird', 'freaks', or subject to DSM-3. We also weren't ready to throw out our marriages, our kids' lives, our careers, and our social positions and contacts over a driving need to dominate - or submit to - another person


Are those violins I hear in the background?

quote:

So we have three choices; Practice the lifestyle covertly, practice it openly and risk divorce and the loss of *everything* we have worked so hard for, or suffer.


Right. So because you are a Dominant, that means you SHOULD have everything and risk nothing. Right...there's integrity for you.

quote:

Somehow, I think that rational adults who understand the mechanics of the real world would be able to accomodate each other within clearly defined, and mutually agreeable, consensual limits.


I believe the author has the words "Rational" and "Rationalize" confused.

quote:

I am open about my married status and I will let someone who can be rational and objective about it judge for themselves as to whether or not they want to be friends, advisors, or playmates or, best of all, all three.


Oh please. But are you open about your cheating to your wife? You can wax philosophic all you want. This is just a selfish man's attempt to lie his way through several relationships and think he's ok because he's "Dominant".

What utter self serving crap.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to DocWatson)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 10:00:48 AM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am pulling the text from this discussion. You can all debate it as much as you want. Since I posted this without my Master's knowledge, he did not consent to it, nor could he explain his position. It seems unfair in retrospect.

As I told you in a personal email, I think it is great for you to speak your mind and exert leadership. I do think it is not so great to use invectives such as "bitch".

< Message edited by FragileRose -- 3/13/2005 7:24:21 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 10:58:44 AM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FragileRose
The only person with whom I can speak freely is my therapist. I thought he was going to fall out of his chair when I told him about all of the postings that told me to RUN, AND FAST, THE OTHER WAY.


Why would your therapist be surprised by the forum's response? I really would LOVE to know!

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 12:31:41 PM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am pulling the text from this discussion. You can all debate it as much as you want. Since I posted this without my Master's knowledge, he did not consent to it, nor could he explain his position. It seems unfair in retrospect.

< Message edited by FragileRose -- 3/13/2005 7:24:57 PM >

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 12:58:25 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I am not at all surprised at the reactions here - my reaction is the same... Most people who are in this lifestyle long term are firm believers in SSC - and by not telling telling his wife, he has removed the consensual aspect - she cannot consent because she does not know. And that is why I object to situations like this. I have a friend who is a Domme and we rather pointedly do NOT discuss one of her boys because of a similar situation (he is married and his wife hasn't a clue what goes on behind her back). I have asked her to just not talk to me about him because of how I feel about it, and since she doesn't want to piss me off or get lectured about what she is doing to his wife, she doesn't even mention him in passing to me anymore ... I honestly don't know if she is still Domming him or not.

I don't have problems with open relationships, as long as they are open - hell, I'm in one. But it is open - and that means open communication too. If I am going to have a fling with someone, I tell my girlfriend and our boy - they know, and they at least accept (the boy doesn't approve, but he knows how things work in our relationship). Nothing is ever done behind anyone's back, everyone knows the score. Because of what we are looking for, we aren't interested in pursuing any kind of long term relationship with a married man, but we have considered having playmates who are married - as long as we have talked with the wife and made sure that she understands and is ok with it. In a situation like that, no problem - everyone knows what's going on, no one is left in the dark. In a situation like yours, it's not right to do that to someone else.

Miss Karen

(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 1:16:19 PM   
DocWatson


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/12/2005
From: NoVA
Status: offline 		Lily,

Like the Trace Adkins song says, "Looks like we're gonna get along juuust fine"

Okay, you've made some pretty heavy handed and sarcastic statements without walking a day in my shoes. Perhaps you can throw away a six figure salary, over a decade of marriage, and multiple children just to 'Live the Lifestyle!" - most of us can't. I won't, TYVM.

I've heard it before - The hardcore folks say we should get divorced and that I should 'go live the lifestyle!' but most don't have real jobs with global responsibilities.

Then, oddly, I run into the morality police who can point the finger just fine at me but get all huffy because someone outside the community calls them a 'freak'.

WTF is that about?!?

You've also assumed:

1. That I would abuse any form of percieved power as a Dom that I may or may not have. As you well know, I have none unless it is willingly given.

2. That I would not practice full-disclosure with my potential partners - in other words, that I am a Liar. We don't know each other and we've never met, so Madam, You owe me an apology.

From where I sit, full disclosure is an assumed part of the 'consensual' aspect in any relationship - I am blatantly honest because I don't want any misconceptions or misunderstandings. Whatever happens past that point is between two adults who understand the context and limits of that relationship and damn the morality police.

3. That I don't want to try a full blown D/s and S/m relationship with my wife. We've tried and she can't get her mind around or past the "Why do you want to hurt someone?" -particulalry her - as part of sex.

In complete disclosure, she also has told me that she is not prepared emotionally to share me openly with anyone else. Now, in her family that's a code phrase for turning a blind eye. I'd rather she just let me go openly but she's not ready.

Believe me this: if she woke up one morning with a riding crop in her hand and asked me to spank the white off her little tight ass, I'd probably never leave the house!

The reality is that it most likely won't happen and I am - like many, many others here and other online and offline communities are - left with those three choices.

I respect your opinion and heartfully disagree.

In the Minority and From Iraq,

-DocWatson-

< Message edited by DocWatson -- 3/13/2005 1:25:15 PM >

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 2:09:35 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DocWatson
In complete disclosure, she also has told me that she is not prepared emotionally to share me openly with anyone else. Now, in her family that's a code phrase for turning a blind eye. I'd rather she just let me go openly but she's not ready.

-DocWatson-


Now there's a train wreck waiting to happen. You're hearing what you want to hear.... sure hope you're right.

(in reply to DocWatson)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 3:39:26 PM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am pulling the text from this discussion. You can all debate it as much as you want. Since I posted this without my Master's knowledge, he did not consent to it, nor could he explain his position. It seems unfair in retrospect.

< Message edited by FragileRose -- 3/13/2005 7:25:43 PM >

(in reply to DocWatson)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 5:18:52 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FragileRose

While I was not surprised, my therapist was indeed taken aback by this forum's response to say the least. In fact, I plan to show him all of the postings. Why was he surprised? I think he did not expect such harsh judgement from those who find themselves judged so harshly by large segments of society.


So the therapist was amazed to hear that perverts can have standards of behavior? I'm glad collarme was able to educate him!

I'm not sure he's the best person to help you sort out your feelings regarding your own kink, Fragile. Instead of getting you to look at your problems and anxieties, it seems he's merely supporting your defensive postures. Not good. Not therapy.

Just my opinion (as a mild pervert).

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 6:03:47 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Well, Doc. I never expected a public flogging on this topic! A free exchange of ideas, yet. Personal attacks and invectives, actually, no.

I'm outta here. I am sure that I will run into folks from this Web site as I join the Real Time BDSM world, but I will never tell that I was once a submissive that went by the name of FragileRose.


I thought doc was supporting you rose, am wondering what you are referring to. Please don't leave the boards. And btw you didn't answer my earlier question (post no 24), is your dom in MN?

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 6:18:43 PM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Text is being pulled. The Master under discussion did not consent to this discussion, nor did he have the chance to explain his position.

< Message edited by FragileRose -- 3/13/2005 7:17:44 PM >

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 6:21:39 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline 		Wow! I don't recall asking you WHO your therapist was. What I said was a therapist who thinks perverts should be tolerant of cheating because perverts themselves are treated with intolerance might not actually understand perverts.

But I was wrong. I apologize. I wasn't nearly strong enough. Your "therapist" doesn't understand humans at all. Not perverts. I'm not even sure he understands attention-slut/whiney/angry online players. I also apologize for calling you (indirectly) a kink. It's obvious you're not. Hope that is cleared up!






< Message edited by January -- 3/13/2005 6:43:49 PM >

(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 7:11:53 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Lily,

Like the Trace Adkins song says, "Looks like we're gonna get along juuust fine"

Okay, you've made some pretty heavy handed and sarcastic statements without walking a day in my shoes. Perhaps you can throw away a six figure salary, over a decade of marriage, and multiple children just to 'Live the Lifestyle!" - most of us can't. I won't, TYVM.


Hrm....thou protesteth too much. Actually, if you thought that was sarcasm, you don't know me very well. Your ability or inability to throw away a six figure salary just proves that you lack integrity. And are a selfish person.

quote:

I've heard it before - The hardcore folks say we should get divorced and that I should 'go live the lifestyle!' but most don't have real jobs with global responsibilities.


I certainly wouldn't presume to tell you what to do. I will tell you, on a public forum what I think. If what I've had to say has bothered you so badly, perhaps you should take a moment and do some introspection. I'm simply some broad who has an opinion; it has clearly rocked you a little. You might do yourself a favor and ask 'why'.

quote:

Then, oddly, I run into the morality police who can point the finger just fine at me but get all huffy because someone outside the community calls them a 'freak'. WTF is that about?!?


I'm a freak. I don't take any offense to that ~shrug~ What the fuck that is about is perhaps someone's touched a nerve in you. You might want to look at that.


quote:

You've also assumed:

1. That I would abuse any form of percieved power as a Dom that I may or may not have. As you well know, I have none unless it is willingly given.

2. That I would not practice full-disclosure with my potential partners - in other words, that I am a Liar. We don't know each other and we've never met, so Madam, You owe me an apology.


Madam is some other broad, and fairly presumptuous a title for you to use with a woman you don't know. How is it my fault that you haven't been clear in the way you expressed yourself. There is nothing in your previous post that indicates that you have disclosed your activities with submissives in BDSM with the woman you don't want to lose because of your six figure income. Unless I read you wrong, you can see how it feels to want that apology...

quote:

From where I sit, full disclosure is an assumed part of the 'consensual' aspect in any relationship - I am blatantly honest because I don't want any misconceptions or misunderstandings. Whatever happens past that point is between two adults who understand the context and limits of that relationship and damn the morality police.
3. That I don't want to try a full blown D/s and S/m relationship with my wife. We've tried and she can't get her mind around or past the "Why do you want to hurt someone?" -particulalry her - as part of sex.

In complete disclosure, she also has told me that she is not prepared emotionally to share me openly with anyone else. Now, in her family that's a code phrase for turning a blind eye. I'd rather she just let me go openly but she's not ready.


Hey if she's comfortable, no need to open me a new one. I'm still suspect that my comments have riled you up to the degree they have and that everything's completely rosey on the home front. ~shrug~

quote:

Believe me this: if she woke up one morning with a riding crop in her hand and asked me to spank the white off her little tight ass, I'd probably never leave the house!

The reality is that it most likely won't happen and I am - like many, many others here and other online and offline communities are - left with those three choices.

I respect your opinion and heartfully disagree.

In the Minority and From Iraq,

-DocWatson-


Gee Doc, for a guy who 'respects my opinion' you opened me up pretty good. I'm not here to validate you nor am I here to validate me. We all have opinions, and I'm traditionally a hard ass with the married cheaters. Oh well, no one who's been around for a while would expect less from me.

Again, you are well within your rights to disagree. If we all agreed with each other around here things would be fairly bland.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to DocWatson)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: From the Married Dom's Perspective - 3/13/2005 8:25:56 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		I don't get the folks who expect us to universally approve of their affairs. Why in the world would someone who knows anything about D/s think that everyone who identifies as dominant and submissive would look at the unilateral abridgment of a commitment, without at least the tacit approval of the second party, in a positive light? It simply boggles my mind.
Timothy

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: End of discussion... - 3/14/2005 1:45:50 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Rose...

hunni... If you read this, please contact me, somehow.

After reading this thread without reading what rose has written, as being in the UK, I come online a slightly different time, so Angel misses everything!... all I can say is.... goodness me.

I don't think that anyone would expect people to agree with others decisions or what they want to do. But is that truely the point?

She made a choice. All I can see, is that she isnt asking for people to pat her on the back and say 'well done, clever girl'... shes not that naive. I don't think however, she was expected to be called 'a bitch'... Yes, I know, it may not have been aimed directly at her, but it was said, none the less.

I am sorry to talk about you in the third person rose, but your not here for me to talk to in person, which all I can say is a total and utter loss to everyone, even the ones who can't see it.

People can learn from rose... just as she learns from us.

But unfortunately, most humans feel the need to decide what is morally right or wrong for everyone and thats that.

Do I think cheating is right? No, it isn't FOR ME.(Please note disclaimer, lol... like that will work) Does that mean I can't offer support? Damn right I can. You think it's easy for her? Like hell.

I can understand her therapists thoughts. I do not think its about thinking that Lifestylers have no morals or standards... but more that He would assume that a Lifestyle that expects to be tollerated, is less than tollerent about something that doesn't fit into a SSC that, in reality, is NOT WORKABLE... even in our 'society'.

Fortunately the majority were supportive responses, even if rose couldn't see that past the minority of attacks she received. Maybe when she has calmed, she will come back (even under a new name) and see this as a learning curve. I do hope thats the case.

Peace and Blessings

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to FragileRose)
Profile   Post #: 40
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