RE: sub drop? excuses (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 6:46:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The way I see it, scening is a drug, its a way of getting high and if a sub drops so much after a scene that s/he can't cope, s/he should be asking herself is this the right drug for her.

I had a fuck of  abitch once who I would stay up all night with before leaving and taking a couple of hours sleep before going to work. She was always going on about feeling abandoned and lonely. Fine I can understand that but I still had to go to work and if she couldn't handle it, she really should have been asking if this is for her.

Luckily I now scene with someone who can take a heavy scene, dusts herself down and she goes to work herself. She thrives on scening, its like charging her battery and aftercare just isn't an issue. For her, it is obvious it is her drug. After scening with S, if I scened with someone else and they needed aftercare (I'm thinking something substantial) I would recommend they reconsider what they are doing.

Perhaps it is not the drug that is the problem, but the needle that delivered it? I do not think anyone should reconsider their sexual enjoyment because one person did not provide to them what they needed. But that is just my opinion.




wideeyes -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 6:47:54 AM)

Perhaps living with one's partner could help with subdrop.  I don't live with my master however we do have a LOT of contact throughout most days.  That could certainly contribute to my feeling as secure as i do within our play.   However even in my limited experiences with casual play i tended to feel more "high" than "dropped".  So perhaps its something based not only in the actual experience/situation but also integral to the person themselves?




KnightofMists -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 6:55:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prettichinadoll

Different people need different things. I admit there're subs who doesn't need aftercare, there're subs whose needs for after care depends on the situation and the intensity of the scene, and there're subs who needs after care every time they play. I've experienced sub drop once, and that's not something I ever want to experience again. When I read your post, I feel that what you're saying is "stop faking sub drop and deal with what your depression yourself!" That's not a bad point, if someone is really "faking" a sub drop. Yet, as a Master or a friend, how could you know this person is faking everything? How would you know she's not seriously need it?


It is not so much they are faking it... it' is more like ... it "quacks" and they call it a goose.. instead of a duck.

maybe they don't know what a duck is... maybe they are in denial that it is a duck.  lots of reasons for the variety of situaitons.

quote:


I've been thinking about writing "Illusion of responsibility" for sometime, but couldn't come up with a valid concept, because responsibility is real in this lifestyle, and dom is responsible. Unless previously negotiated clearly, a sub drop from a scene is dom's responsibility. If a certain dom don't want that kind of trouble, he could always make it clear up front that "I don't do after care, and if there's a sub drop because of the scene, you have to deal with it yourself". LOL, I would imagine if this certain dom actually put this up front, not many people will want to play with him. But at least he's honest.


This is BS... it is no one single person's responsibility.  But... alot love to deny their own responsibilities and pass it on to someone else.  It so much easier for some to blame someone else for one's own problems and issues.. than to take responsibility for themself.  Don't have much use for these types of individuals.  And the stupid people that want to take responsibility for what is not theirs.
I think, purely from a logic point of view, there're people who actually faking sub drop hoping the dom would be there for them, there're people who would lie to get attention, who doesn't have a life, and want other people to solve all there issue. But I believe most of the subs, when they experiencing sub drop, it is very real, it is very horrible, something no one would want to get through in exchange for some mere attention.

quote:


So, if I could make a suggestion, next time when you put up a post like this, don't generalize things, don't make it sounds like you're attacking people (notice I didn't say you're attacking, i just say you make it sounds like you're attacking). The point of communication is make other people listen, when you start attacking, people will start denfending, and when they start defending, they'll stop listen. and you won't be able to communicate to someone who doesn't want to listen to you.


LMAO.. maybe you should take your own advice.
Then again, that's just my opinion.




KnightofMists -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:00:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

ut you are correct in that he has taught me to recover and be strong and get on with the day, so to speak.  This is not to say he never provides me with after care, but it's not the kind I see most talked about here.  It certainly isn't a "requirement."  I do not put requirements on my Master.  And he will always check in with me later



Self-Responsibility... OH what a novel concept!!  *w* 

Why didn't I think of that!...




KnightofMists -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:07:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

, this slave feels refreshed and energized!!!
 


This makes me chuckle.... for years this has been alandra's reaction...  For about 30 seconds after play she appears to be drained and used up... I feel expended and tired.... Then suddenly...

the Fucking Energizer Bunny... gets up and keeps going and going and going....  Doesn't matter if I caned her to pulp or flogged her till she can't stand up.

I find that kyra is showing the same signs of this mindset after play.. ......  I attribute this behavior to the mindset's they enter play into.

the rare occassions that they have trouble after play... the common theme was their mindset before the play... and not the play or aftercare.  And considering the very little aftercare I do... and considering the great lifestyle police.... one would think my girls would be dropping like flies.




KnightofMists -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:13:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Perhaps it is not the drug that is the problem, but the needle that delivered it? I do not think anyone should reconsider their sexual enjoyment because one person did not provide to them what they needed. But that is just my opinion.


Yeah... that's like saying... I had bad sex with X... so sex is bad with anyone.  So lets not have sex with anyone.

How about just don't have sex with X... or maybe it's don't have sex with X when I am distracted with other stuff and can't focus it ...... maybe it was bad not because of X... but because of me... I wasn't into it... I was Bad... Not X.... oh the tangle web we weave.




SimplyMichael -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:16:49 AM)

This thread raises many issues!

One, this shows the importance for dominants in being choosy in who they play with casually.  I would never play with someone who has a reputation for needing days or even a day of aftercare, especially for scenes that were not all that edgy.

Here I am going to pick on someone...but mainly as an example.

quote:

  I had a scene with a Dom whose name i didn't know, who ended up using a single tail on me (first time ever for me!) and i was stuck in subspace for days.  On top of that i was absolutely smittened with him.... still am slightly....
 

THIS is what I believe MUCH (which by definition means NOT all) of this mult-day and week subdrop stuff is REALLY about on some level. 


quote:

What boggles me, this man i didnt even know his name at the begining of the scene, barely caught it at the end of the scene was so kind to provide days of "after care".  (with me being completely un aware of what he was doing)  Not only did he not mind that i found out how to get a hold of him, he spent time talking to me in IMS, Emails, and phone conversations for DAYS.   On top of that, he invited me out, invited me to a concert, invited me over for weekend.  (course the collar on my neck sort put a reality check on things)


You are so smitten with the guy you go out with him and he spends lots of time doting on a collared submissive?  DRAMA...some schmuck who has no life, no woman, but a CaptSuperDom who uses his technical skill trying to win someone over. 


quote:

He was there for me for as long as i needed him.  ::sigh::  And when i stopped needing him so much, he started to break down contact with me (citing the whole collared thing) 


One way to look at it OR, when he realized he wasn't going to get laid, he then switched gears and tried to act honorable. If it wasn't good to be spending time with you LATER it wasn't good to be doing it in the first case.


quote:

I'm either making a very valid point here - or this topic made me think of him and i just wanted to ramble on since i am still slightly smittened with him.  ::sigh:: Why arent all Doms like him?


We aren't because we don't prey on inexperience people who need days of aftercare because their primary relationship is poorly chosen or we avoid playing with them in the first case.

Subdrop can be real, but this is another internat chatroom phenomenon amped up by the "SuperCaring" McDom because words are so much cheaper than action.  I carry a little blanket with me to provide aftercare and I enjoy it after a scene.  I just took a 3am call from an old submissive of mine who was in hysterics over a current lover and calmed her down.  I am compassionate but I am not a sucker, BIG difference!!!!




BreatheinToMe -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:20:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

After reading  both mrs merc and twice happy's posts, i'm wondering if whether living with their Dominant/Master makes the occurence  of sub drop  less likely?

 
For me, I was living with my Dom 24/3.5  lol  well for half of each year... and as the relationship winded down....the drops grew.......hence my summarization. So, I guess for me it was a barometer. Hind sight yanno..
 
 Although "hind sight" in this group of people, could put an automatic smile on someone's face.......lol




kyraofMists -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:25:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

After reading  both mrs merc and twice happy's posts, i'm wondering if whether living with their Dominant/Master makes the occurence  of sub drop  less likely?


Not for me; I have only experienced a drop once in the past two years and he and I live more than 3,000 miles apart.  Several times we have played and one or the other has gotten on a plane and left a few hours later. 

Knight's kyra




aurora31 -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:34:19 AM)

When I drop it has more to do with the intensity of the scene, the power exchange. Not necessarily how hard we play. Also as KoM stated about alandra and kyra it depends on my emotional status going into play. I use pain play a lot for therapy these days. Some days the day to day struggle of dealing with what my doctors say is an incurable cancer just gets to be to much. I loose my focus and my positive outlook on things. A good hard scene, getting hurt will always snap me out of it. But if I have an extremely emotional response during play I will almost guarantee that 2 or 3 days out I will drop. Now I have found that eating peanut butter cups and drinking lots of OJ after a scene greatly reduces the likely hood of it happening. But when it does happen I recognize it for what it is and force myself to push on it will go away in a day or two.

aurora




BreatheinToMe -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 7:40:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The way I see it, scening is a drug, its a way of getting high and if a sub drops so much after a scene that s/he can't cope, s/he should be asking herself is this the right drug for her.

I had a fuck of  abitch once who I would stay up all night with before leaving and taking a couple of hours sleep before going to work. She was always going on about feeling abandoned and lonely. Fine I can understand that but I still had to go to work and if she couldn't handle it, she really should have been asking if this is for her.

Luckily I now scene with someone who can take a heavy scene, dusts herself down and she goes to work herself. She thrives on scening, its like charging her battery and aftercare just isn't an issue. For her, it is obvious it is her drug. After scening with S, if I scened with someone else and they needed aftercare (I'm thinking something substantial) I would recommend they reconsider what they are doing.


Or who they are doing it with.




juliaoceania -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 8:02:44 AM)

FR


I am sensing an underlying theme here on this thread, which is probably logical seeing we are talking about subdrop. And that is the idea that not needing aftercare is a superior way of being, but aftercare is not always about the sub.  Subs are not the only ones that get drop, and they are not the only ones that desire aftercare. Often their doms feel the same way. Some subs dislike aftercare, some do not need it, some need it, some like it, and ever other variation thereof. I think basically what people need to keep in mind is this : we should choose someone that is right for us and has similar needs in this regard... the rest of judging people who need something that you do not is rather humorous to me. I do not need unending hours of aftercare personally, and sometimes I would rather go shopping or out to eat after we play (yes, we sometimes go do stuff when we are finished), but if I am emotional, hell yeah I hope my partner does not mind helping me come back to earth a little. I would do the same for him after all if he needed it, many of us DO feel the need to connect with the person that just finished beating the crap out of us, and that is really ok. Some of us also need to connect with the person we beat the crap out of, and that is ok too.





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 11:47:41 AM)

Well I'm really glad now that I specifically stated in my response that I was NOT saying that needing aftercare was bad.  :)

Since I read Beth's post, I've been seriously thinking about the aftermath of my scenes.  Sadly, there really isn't much of a pattern.

Sometimes I'll scene and pretty much go into a coma and sleep for a long time.  Sometimes I'll scene 4 times in one night, leaving each scene more bouncy and energized than the other, until I'm worn out into a calm gentle high.  Sometimes I'll scene and be extremely emotionally vulnerable and exposed and need to be snuggled and away from other people.  Sometimes I'll feel not much of anything.

I've had subdrop before, sometimes that day, sometimes a week later.  And it definitely does suck and is not enjoyable.  But subdrop itself is NOT the end of the world, it's not even a huge deal.  I think a big part of the problem is people who scene before knowing what the consequences may be, before making sure who they are playing with will be able to give them what they need, and part of the problem is that their subdrop opens a floodgate to much bigger issues and they don't know how to deal with that.




lilsubl -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 12:11:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

After reading  both mrs merc and twice happy's posts, i'm wondering if whether living with their Dominant/Master makes the occurence  of sub drop  less likely?


i don't know if their living with their Dominants/Masters makes their experience different, but i didn't live with mine & i still didn't experience what others describe as sub drop...it would have the opposite effect for me:  euphoria, peacefulness, calm, contentedness, etc...so please count my experience among those who experience the "sub high" without the live-in situation.....






denika -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 12:42:45 PM)

Hi kyra,
I have to tell you, I love the analogy of play and excersice. I had never really thought of it that way but how true.
I don't need alot of after care, a quiet place and someone to make sure I don't trip or walk into a wall, some chocolate. My favorite is to actually sit on the floor with my cloak around me (especially if I cried during play) and my head on either Knights knee, Rob's or one of his girls until I can get sniffles under control, they usually turn into gigles afterwords *s*

I've experienced negative feelings after play  only once and it was due to the situation not the intensity of the play. It started off badly to begin with and I couldn't get myself into the play and I even stopped it ( Needless to say I was not bottoming to Knight that time)  It wasn't the responciblity of the person I played with to coddle and cuddle me until I felt better, it was my responsibility to take a look at why I felt this way. Yes there are naturaly occuring pheramones and a chemical drop once they fade away but as kyra said, keep your thoughts positive. I've done play that scared the living crap out of me and still felt better afterwords than I did  with this light play. I talked to friends about how I felt and why, then  talked to the person I played with a day later to let him know. 
I was a bit stressed and agrivated, even disapointed at myself for how I stopped the play but those are not factors that are going to cause me to behave poorly and then blame it on sub drop.


denika





FatDomDaddy -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 3:26:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyKitty69

Whatever....
I disagree with you in so many level I don't even know where to start....
I respect your opinion but your are dead wrong




I am always amazed at that last statement or variations of it.

One can respect that many people have different opinions but we as a society really need to comprehend that it is ok to disrespect a "dead wrong" opinion and it is all right and proper to try and blow that opinion apart!

I happen to believe the OP is correct btw.




adaddysgirl -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 6:51:48 PM)

Let's see.  Whenever i have been discipline spanked, i absolutely need aftercare.  i could not imagine not having that because the spankings are a very emotional release for me....and it definitely takes me time to 'regroup' afterward.  i don't suffer from depression but i really don't know what would happen if aftercare was not administered after the spanking.
 
Now i've never played as hard as probably most of you have but when i did (with my partner), i did not need aftercare....but i did need to sleep.  i don't know...that was more of a physical release for me and as such, resulted in physical exhaustion.  So for me, i guess i would need aftercare if the interaction was emotionally charged rather than physical.
 
i don't think i have ever experienced subdrop though....subspace, yes....subdrop, no.
 
DG




MistressSassy66 -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/10/2007 10:33:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

fast reply,

ok people seem to be confused. i am not doubting sub drop - or its validity having experienced it before. i was trying to point out how after days or weeks of a 'low' some people still like to call it sub drop even if its not. and as always, this does not apply to everyone.


thanks for your replies.




I think I get what your saying...I cant speak for female submissives as I see mostly males.

When it comes to be days on end...I think its more of a missing the "scene" and
wanting to do it again type feeling.Sometimes it seems they are clingy the next day or two maybe they havent actually dropped yet and are still high on the scene.

I understand aftercare and give the amount of time needed even if its a day later.
A week later...come on lets get a grip is the way I feel.





twicehappy -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/11/2007 6:45:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

After reading  both mrs merc and twice happy's posts, i'm wondering if whether living with their Dominant/Master makes the occurence  of sub drop  less likely?


I think perhaps it has more to do (like i said in my previous post) with a sense of security in both the relationship and yourself. And after reading a few of the posts here i am inclined to stick with my original opinion.
 
Whether or not this is more likely to be the case with a live in situation i do not know, but it might. But if so it is only on  the basis that living with  one's owner may make one feel  more secure.
 
I  know of couples who live together who are very insecure in their relationship as well as couples who do not live together who are extremely secure in theirs. 




ownedgirlie -> RE: sub drop? excuses (2/11/2007 12:06:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

I think perhaps it has more to do (like i said in my previous post) with a sense of security in both the relationship and yourself. And after reading a few of the posts here i am inclined to stick with my original opinion.
 


This is a really good point here.  I was answering the question of sub drop from the perspective I had when I used to experience it.  I so rarely do now.  Typically I experienced it when I was pushed outside my own mental/emotional boundaries, and looking for a life net rather than realizing I had it within myself.  As I became more secure with myself in the relationship, and with the relationship itself, those feelings of angst and fear rarely came up.  Still, the few times they do now, I find my answers within.  But I did not start out this way.  I did not begin in an established relationship and I was certainly far from being a secure person when I came to him.  Very good point, Twice, glad you reiterated it.





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