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RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 3:56:52 PM   
MasterKalif


Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline 		Amen, elderrook...it makes no sense to me....they expect people at 18 to fight wars in foreign countries that make no sense...they can drive, they can work and pay/file for taxes...and yet they cannot have a beer? hello? something wrong with this picture....I agree with Nephandi, as it is in Norway, it should be in the US and all the crazy college binge drinking will die down after some years as it becomes openly accepted that you can drink at 18. I am glad that other Americans agree with this too.

I have to agree as well, that while at 18 I thought I was an adult, I was not as prepared for life as I am now....but then life is a learning process, never ends really.

I also have to add, not having been to any munches, I am shocked to find that they descriminate people because they are 18 and not over 21...could this have anything to do with renting clubs for events or being afraid of remotely having someone considered a minor (even though at 18 you are not) and avoid legal complications?

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 4:00:19 PM   
Isaidnow


Posts: 13
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline 		I'm 39 and still feel inexperienced in a lot of areas.  At 18 IMO, not many people have had that much life experience to know what they like or how to be safe. 

Saying that some 18 year olds are more mature than a lot of 30 year olds.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 6:04:43 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Ditto. Just turned 24 this week and still feel like a kid. In the 6 years since I turned 18, I have grown up a LOT and gone through tons of changes.

To the original poster, you can't even begin to imagine how much you'll change between the ages of 18 and say 25. It's amazing. I don't think it's unreasonable for munches and parties to require one to be 21. For one reason, by the time you're 21  you've been in the adult world for 3 years and ought to have a more adult mindset than the average 18yr old. Also for legality reasons, especially if alcohol is present, etc, I think it's definately a good idea.


Hell, i'm 30 and still don't think of myself as a grown-up. That doesn't mean i don't accept the responsibilities, or expect the privileges, that come with adulthood.

A lot of people i've known (myself included) were in college and sponging off their parents at 21. Should we have waited until age 24 to become involved in BDSM?

A handful of points related to both the social and physical aspects involved:
In my experience, most play parties, and munches that involve scening, strongly discourage alcohol use by participants.

A munch (social event) held at a public place such as a restaurant that serves alcohol should be no different than any other gathering- the venue is responsible for playing nanny, not the group.

In the U.S., no state has an age of consent higher than 18. If you can consent to sex at 18 (and, as mentioned, die for political purposes), why would you not be able to consent to BDSM?

A real-time social group can be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it can expose someone to things (or people) they aren't ready for. On the other hand, and i think, more importantly, they can also serve as a support and educational resource. Most groups with any kind of longetivity are self-regulating, and will shun anyone who is seen as irresponsible or otherwise potentially dangerous. The Internet, on the other hand, has no such controls.

An 18-to-20-year-old female submissive will not have few problems attracting "offers" on-line or off. Do you think it's better for her to be part of a local community where she can share experiences, set up safecalls, and learn from others, or to be ostracized from it? Is it really in the "community"'s best interest to force her to learn from trial and error before accepting her into even social situations? i do not see the benefit to this.

...dave

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 6:15:32 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Awww hell, i'm 47 and STILL trying to figure most of adult hood out.  It changes from stage to stage in life.  *chucklez*

~smilezz~

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(in reply to wyldsubmissive)
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RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 6:19:41 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		Petdave, I was one of those people getting involved at 18, and I just think it might have been better if I had waited. I can only speak from peronal experience.
What people do in privacy is their own business, but I don't think we should necessarily be encouraging 18 yr olds to attend parties.  Perhaps munches held in non-alcoholic venues would be ok.

If you do let 18yrs olds into the parties, better check ID carefully. Very easy for 15 to pass for 18 (been there and done that), especially with a half way decent fake ID. I just don't think borderline legals need to be around just yet.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/12/2007 6:22:42 PM >

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RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 7:17:27 PM   
JasonF


Posts: 61
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldsubmissive

WHY MUST I BE 21?

Don't answer, I know. It's because too many people are afraid of underage people getting into munches, play parties and the like.

It's because too many times in the past have BDSM & lifestylers been treated in harsh light.

But its irksome. I thought 18 meant adulthood! Obviously I'm bloody well wrong. I mean, I've got roughly a year away from 21 but I'm American damnit.

By this I mean I want it RIGHT NOW. (Kidding. On some miniscule level.)

I'm sure there are already multiple people who've made posts to this effect, but I shall fall once more into their ranks.

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of letting my ass into munches... erm, war!


Wyld, you've really hit a subject close to heart. I'm one of the "council of elders" of a local TNG group (at 22, an elder, haha). There ARE people >21 who are PASSIONATE about the ability for any adult to participate in a group.

While I'm really, really sad for you that there isn't an accepting group in your area, know that there are some of us working toward universal acceptance.


_____________________________

Jay
TNG-NC Council Member
engaged to my girl, junecleaver

(in reply to wyldsubmissive)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 7:19:00 PM   
JasonF


Posts: 61
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What people do in privacy is their own business, but I don't think we should necessarily be encouraging 18 yr olds to attend parties.  Perhaps munches held in non-alcoholic venues would be ok.

If you do let 18yrs olds into the parties, better check ID carefully. Very easy for 15 to pass for 18 (been there and done that), especially with a half way decent fake ID. I just don't think borderline legals need to be around just yet.


For the first thing you wrote, most groups around here have explicit rules against play parties with alcohol. DMs around here are trained to NEVER let a person who's had alcohol play at our parties, and I like it that way. That way, for <21 year olds, there's no alcohol issue.

For the second thing, I completely agree, and the group I work with keeps impeccable paperwork. :)


_____________________________

Jay
TNG-NC Council Member
engaged to my girl, junecleaver

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 8:10:53 PM   
Shadowrun


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elderrook

All too true. I was in the US military service at 18. Isn't it ironic that they think you're old enough to die for your country, but not old enough to enjoy freedom of sexual expression?


I will say I never thought the military service arguement was a good one for a certain age = responsibilty, since you are going to be controlled and subordinate to practically everyone until you prove yourself.

A more interesting arguement for consistancy is that in Ohio you can at 18 vote on whether  alcohol should be  sold in your community  but can 't drink until  you are  21.

(in reply to elderrook)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 8:21:49 PM   
Shadowrun


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		In general on the age issue I run a munch and a play group in Central Ohio. The munch being public is open to everyone when we meet at a restaurant defacto 21+ when we meet at a bar. For the play group we set the age at 19. Although since the group is older it is more likely we are going to get older people and younger people look for TNG groups. Black  Rose for their annual event I beleive requires 19 only. There is a good reason for 19 in my opinion is that it pretty much guarentees you are not getting high school kids, 18 won't.

I know this will also sound wrong to you wyldsubmissive, but as it has been stated here by others at 19 most people are barely beginging to understand their sexuality. It wasn't until 30 I really started figuring out the scene yes YMMV but it also makes sense to work slowly. There are plenty of unscrupulous people who will prey on the inexperienced in the scene. Giving yourself a few years to grow up helps. I think others here will agree it seems like it is about age 25 when you have a better clue about yourself. So relax time will pass quick enough, be safe and have fun.

(in reply to Shadowrun)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 8:35:52 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Petdave, I was one of those people getting involved at 18, and I just think it might have been better if I had waited. I can only speak from peronal experience.


Do you wish that you'd waited longer to become involved with a group, or BDSM with a partner? Just to clarify... i'm curious what experiences you would have had with a munch group or play party that would make you dissuade others from doing the same. FWIW, i ask this as someone who has been interested in BDSM since a very young age, but did not manage to get involved with any social group until my early 20's (although i did lie about my age to get into the vendor fair of a rather large regional event when i was 19... w00t!).

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/12/2007 8:41:47 PM   
BabyNyla


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldsubmissive

WHY MUST I BE 21?

Don't answer, I know. It's because too many people are afraid of underage people getting into munches, play parties and the like.

It's because too many times in the past have BDSM & lifestylers been treated in harsh light.

But its irksome. I thought 18 meant adulthood! Obviously I'm bloody well wrong. I mean, I've got roughly a year away from 21 but I'm American damnit.

By this I mean I want it RIGHT NOW. (Kidding. On some miniscule level.)

I'm sure there are already multiple people who've made posts to this effect, but I shall fall once more into their ranks.

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of letting my ass into munches... erm, war!


 
 
I share your pain ... my husband in 19 ... which means I can't take him to bars, munches, or play parties ... and it sucks :\

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/13/2007 1:59:29 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Petdave, I was one of those people getting involved at 18, and I just think it might have been better if I had waited. I can only speak from peronal experience.


Do you wish that you'd waited longer to become involved with a group, or BDSM with a partner? Just to clarify... i'm curious what experiences you would have had with a munch group or play party that would make you dissuade others from doing the same. FWIW, i ask this as someone who has been interested in BDSM since a very young age, but did not manage to get involved with any social group until my early 20's (although i did lie about my age to get into the vendor fair of a rather large regional event when i was 19... w00t!).



I have never really gotten involved with groups. Playing in public is not my scene and the munches I've been too weren't impressive.

I believe I should have waited longer to get involved with BDSM period. I miss that I never got to do that vanilla dating scene and can't relate when my friends discuss their vanilla partners.

I can't remember ever being sexually innocent when I was dating..the whole making out in the back seat of cars and such. Never happened :(


< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/13/2007 2:00:11 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/13/2007 2:22:35 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		At 18 you become legally responsible for your own actions in the U.S. You are, for all intents and purposes an adult. You can have sex (with anyone else 18 and older) and not be charged with a crime. You can go to war for your country. About the only thing I am aware of that an 18 year old cannot do is buy alchohol. Therefore I see no legal reason for anyone 18 or older to be turned away from a fetish group.

Now whether you are ready for the fetish world by 18, that's another story.....

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/13/2007 2:27:02 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, and by the way, when the Vietnam War began, the drinking age was 21. The case was made that if you were old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to drink. The drinking age was reduced to 18 as a result. After the war, as time went by without any major military actions, and the disolution of the draft, the age was bumped back up to 21.

Today the concept that you are old enough to die for your country at 18 but not old enough to drink doesn't seem to bother very many people. A statement on our times.....

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

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RE: *shakes the general community* - 2/13/2007 5:54:40 PM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He enters, dips his lid to all,

Wow Wyld- Acca Dacca n' Bon Scott.  I thought only us older Aussies talk of Bon!   'Can I sit next to you girl?'  A special Me dips.

Ditto to all posters but Shadowrun's
I know this will also sound wrong to you wyldsubmissive, but as it has been stated here by others at 19 most people are barely beginging to understand their sexuality. It wasn't until 30 I really started figuring out the scene yes YMMV but it also makes sense to work slowly. There are plenty of unscrupulous people who will prey on the inexperienced in the scene. Giving yourself a few years to grow up helps. I think others here will agree it seems like it is about age 25 when you have a better clue about yourself. So relax time will pass quick enough, be safe and have fun.  hits my main thoughts.

My just turned 21 yr son is very much a Dom in the making and wanted me to take him to 'observe' a play party as part of celebrations.  Like Hell No!   It would be like unleashing a mogrel dog without basic training!  I consent to him seeing things, clarify his thoughts and he goes off experiementing at the expense of some poor girl.  Finesse is practice that grows with maturity. He simply does not have the life experience to deal with some of the experiences that I have dealt with in the past 3 years! Initial  Sub-spacing can be healing  from past emotional hurts and requires 'life experience' to assist positive outcomes for the sub.

Wyld; your 'assisting Misstress' is extremely correct in wishing to be present with you to 'protect' you.

I well remember how I thought I knew it all at 21 let along 19.   There I was as a 19 yr old policeman telling quarelling adults to behave as 'Adults' with me believing that I was more adult than them!  How dare I be so stupid!   Yes, LA's 26 is my thoughts on what a Police entry age should be as well.   I don not intend to 'put you down' Wyld as I well acknowledge that we all have various 'life experiences' foisted upon us (and I'm not saying that other young Masters are Mongrel Dogs without basic training) but our 'processing' abilities of introspective reflection etc are genrally not developed by our mid 20's- we may think they are but later 'age' reflection clearly tells us what idiots we were then. 

Nothing suits all ages across the board- but legal benchmarks are in place for the protection of many.   For example, how many pple regret drinking,drugs etc when teenagers and looking for more dangerous 'highs' in young adulthood when their peers are doing what they did years earlier? (Geeky Girl says this clearly)

My sympathy is with you Wyld but simply- more learned people who have been through you age have implemented rules n' laws to protect YOU in the hope that what occured to THEM will not endanger you. 

Really tough call but!

P.S> My boy could make a better Dom than I- but only when he has the maturity to understand 'Life's cycles' to provide the 'protection' that a Dom should provide to those that entrust to His care.   This is extremely doubtful b4 26 or later.

Warm regards  to all.   Driver1961

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Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 35
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