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Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 10:44:38 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

In going through the threads on these boards I can find hundreds if not thousands of instances where someone states there opinion but at the bottom of the post they have felt the need to add in some variation of the disclaimer that these opinions are their's alone, no judgement intended, not trying to label others, not trying to say that you have to do it my way, your mileage may vary....they say it in every possible way. My posts included. I have expressed this statement in more ways than I can begin to relate here.

No matter how it is worded or how many times someone expresses it, there are still those who just don't seem to get it, there are still those who accuse the poster of trying to cram something down the throat of another or make them comply to their ideals. Why is it that we need to keep reiterating this sentiment? Are there people who really think that someone posts an opinion in a forum like this with expectations that everyone who reads it will suddenly change their own thoughts and opinions and from that moment forward conduct their way of life in accordance?

I mean come on...this is an adult forum...can't we just look at another's posts and opinions for what they are and realize that they are as entitled to have their opinions as we are to have ours? Just because someone expresses the way they live out their life does not mean we all have to do it that way. Just because someone expresses an opinion does not mean we have to "own" it for ourselves or take it as a personal affront.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

Post #: 1

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 10:50:15 AM

GreyStorm

Posts: 423
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Cheeseheadland
Status: offline

and thats your opinion? pfft.

Here is the correct opinion.....lol. j/k.

Soome people don't take discussion too well. They feel threatened by someone whose views are different. Amazing to me since we live in a country that is accepting of most anything. You would think it would rub off on people.

Of course, thats just my opinion.

Come on, you knew someone was gonna be a smart ass, might as well be me.
We now return you to your regular postings.

_____________________________

Ahhh temptation, I have named thee and thy name is woman.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 2

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 10:52:40 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

People fear submission.
Even submissives fear submission. And most Domiants do not even want people to believe they may conceed to anything other than their own decisions, let alone submit even slightly!
But in a forum where submisson is one of the focal points, it is difficult for some to just let go without feeling that they are giving over consensually to another idea.
When people read a point of view that is not their own, it is always easier to jump down the throat of the writer/speaker than to submit to even 'trying' to comprehend another view, let alone discuss it without throwing around names like 'accuser' or 'abuser' or the worst of all 'JUDGE'.

To place a point of view down, doesnt mean its right for everyone, but it's a personal view.
*hugz erin*

(Just a personal thought BTW...

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 11:01:44 AM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

Great post, mistoferin!

I've been wondering the same thing.

Sheesh! Why do I need a disclaimer in my posts? Of course it's my opinion! I do sometimes add a "I think" or "apparently" to my posts, but if I don't soften my writings with modifiers, it shouldn't be an indication I'm saying others' ideas are crap. (I might be thinking it, though!)

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 11:24:09 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Access denied. Not allowed to have personal information to throw in my face at a later time.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 9:33:07 PM >

(in reply to January)

Post #: 5

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 11:33:09 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

OF course i am ALWAYS right. It goes along with my perfected self. It is unfortunete when i have to correct other's thinking because, well, it isnt my thinking. i AM the Grand Slave (ya know like the grandmaster but opposite) and my opionon weighs heavier then everyone elses. So.........

of course i''m always right.

When i post on these forums i am merely stating FACT and all others opionons are just merely wrong. You people (people as in = cant be as smart or as perfect as me) just need to chill out, sit back and recognize.

Have a lovely day!

DISCLAMIER = This isnt my opionon at all. IT IS fact and can be found in the dictionary under PERFECT. There'll be a lovely photograph and a statement of the statement i made above stating that my statement is perfect, as i am

*Bowing before Her Greatness*
Gosh RiotGirl,
I have no idea how I have made it this far without you! (giggles) From now on whenever I need to know the REAL DEAL I will just email you ok?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 6

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 11:37:53 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Access denied. Not allowed to have personal information to throw in my face at a later time.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 9:33:07 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 7

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 12:34:31 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Well,
OF course i am ALWAYS right. It goes along with my perfected self. It is unfortunete when i have to correct other's thinking because, well, it isnt my thinking. i AM the Grand Slave (ya know like the grandmaster but opposite) and my opionon weighs heavier then everyone elses. So.........
of course i''m always right.

Hey Riotgirl,
You forgot the "I have the highest IQ, the best thought out ideas ever, more experience than everyone, more knowledge bout general public behavior and the behavior of those you've encountered in your life, so the rest of you should just shut up, listen and follow quietly."

. M
P.S. I forgot, because this is YOUR House, and it is always all about you.

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 3/12/2005 12:36:36 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 8

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 1:39:37 PM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

I think such disclaimers are useful, or at least preferable to the alternative where posters express their opinion as if it were some universal law stated with language such as "in this lifestyle blah blah blah".

Another version is someone speaks from their experience but expresses it as if that is the only way for folks to do things. I suppose you're sensitive to this topic because you've done exactly that and folks have called you on it, and then you've made numerous posts trying to talk yourself out of the hole you dug. However, your success at explaining yourself has been mixed because "clarifying" posts also further shown your narrowmindedness. So this looks to me like you're trying to take a shot at other folks because they aren't "adult" enough to read your mind and know that it is just an opinion when you say something foolish. In my opinion, you'd be better off taking care to use disclaimers instead of knocking their usefulness.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 9

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 3:00:07 PM

NATI

Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

OF course i am ALWAYS right. It goes along with my perfected self. It is unfortunete when i have to correct other's thinking because, well, it isnt my thinking. i AM the Grand Slave (ya know like the grandmaster but opposite) and my opionon weighs heavier then everyone elses. So.........

of course i''m always right.

Okay - so. Why didn't you let me in on this before I did my taxes.hmmmmmmm?!

_____________________________

For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 10

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 3:49:13 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

However, your success at explaining yourself has been mixed because "clarifying" posts also further shown your narrowmindedness. So this looks to me like you're trying to take a shot at other folks because they aren't "adult" enough to read your mind and know that it is just an opinion when you say something foolish.

Actually, I think I have not been narrowminded enough as I have operated on the premise that everyone would be adult enough to understand that anything that anyone writes on an internet message board is only an opinion without actually having to be told. But thanks for your opinion....you're entitled to it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 11

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 4:23:42 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I can understand erins viewpoint on this and other subjects. I may not always agree with them, and if I don't get it, I will ask her. I obviously see that erin has a strong viewpoint and likes to state it. Whats wrong with that? I have never thought of her as saying her ways the only way... maybe I could be shown?

I can also 'see' other peoples viewpoints on other subjects. I may not always agree with them either, and if I don't get what they mean, I will ask them also. Others have strong viewpoints and like to state it. Nothing wrong with that either.

What I don't get is the need for people to belittle others and call them foolish, flame and attack. Someone doesn't like something and has made a post. If you disagree, then it's an open forum, place down your disagreement and move on. Why make a personal attack to prove a point? What does accusing personally actually achieve? Is it supposed to show strength? I just see fear. I would much rather have a discussion about a disagreement, rather than flames and condesending comments thrown to an individual in a public forum.

Personally, I don't see why people have to add a disclaimer... I don't find them useful nor constructive. I find they never really work anyway.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 12

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 5:35:22 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Personally, I don't see why people have to add a disclaimer... I don't find them useful nor constructive. I find they never really work anyway.

Disclaimers have a purpose. They help set the boundaries in an arena for discussion.

They won't however work when someone 1) claims that their way is the right way, 2) tries to discredit other's ways of living 3) claims that others aren't qualified to voice their opinions on certain subjects. No disclaimer can soften that type of a statement.

I respect all opinions that differ from mine. I do not however respect people who go around disrespecting others.

As for flaming, I'm not perfect. And I did apologise for my flame but I stand by my point. If someone insults me over and over again, I will speak my mind. Not out of fear, or fake power, but out of annoyance.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 13

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 6:48:22 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

I think what we find on a message board such as this is we are not only discussing controversial points of view with folks who come from diverse backgrounds, experiences, beliefs, values and goals, but we are having these discussions with folks who possess varying degress of formal education, innate intelligence and mastery of the language and diverse ideas of what consitutes acceptable standards of polite discussion. Under the circumstances, expecting much of anything that resembles civil discourse is likely a pipe dream.
Many folks are simply not open to certain discussions and others may be so insecure in their beliefs that opposing viewpoints are interpreted as personal attacks. IMO, it takes a secure person, comfortable in their beliefs to dispassionately debate the pros and cons of their own behavior choices. Additionally, one cannot discount the possibility that some may feign offense in order to attempt to elicit personally gratifying responses from others.
My own signature is a disclaimer, partly humorous, partly serious, designed to prevent the need for the usual off-topic discussions that I have grown bored with. I enjoy debate but I do find continually acknowledging that my opinions are simply what I feel is most correct for me and my household to be pointless.
Timothy

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 14

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/12/2005 7:25:22 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Personally, I don't see why people have to add a disclaimer... I don't find them useful nor constructive. I find they never really work anyway.

Disclaimers have a purpose. They help set the boundaries in an arena for discussion.

They won't however work when someone 1) claims that their way is the right way, 2) tries to discredit other's ways of living 3) claims that others aren't qualified to voice their opinions on certain subjects. No disclaimer can soften that type of a statement.

I respect all opinions that differ from mine. I do not however respect people who go around disrespecting others.

As for flaming, I'm not perfect. And I did apologise for my flame but I stand by my point. If someone insults me over and over again, I will speak my mind. Not out of fear, or fake power, but out of annoyance.

- LA

I believe in intellectual honesty in debating ideas. I will not fail to present my personal ideas of right and wrong in a vain attempt to get along with everyone else who believes differntly than I do. Such inoffensive chitchat is more appropriate to a barbeque or other social gathering than a forum that proposes to fascilitate the exchange of ideas and information.
I recognize the right of others to feel differently and present their POV just I present mine. Some of these individuals and ideas may even be worthy of my respect. Some will not be, but that does nothing to affect ther ability to spread their mindless, morally bankrupt drivel.

"I'm sorry, but 2 and 2 isn't 5, it's 4."
"Oh, yeah? Well, you're fat and ugly!"

I do not attack individuals for presenting their positions, regardless of how wrong I may feel they are. I feel personal attacks to be the immature responses of those who are unable to successfully promote their POVs. I may shred a position to pieces, but that is attacking an idea, not the person who wrote it.

Timothy

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 15

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/13/2005 2:20:11 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Disclaimers have a purpose. They help set the boundaries in an arena for discussion.

Personally I wouldn't be ' in a lifestyle' that sets boundaries or rules I have no wish to follow. Which is why BDSM is appealing to me. Whilst i agree disclaimers can have a purpose in trying to set a boundry, they rarely achieve such. Doesn't stop me using one if I wish to, but relying on such to do the impossible seems naive to me.

*spelling edit and typo.

< Message edited by dark~angel -- 3/13/2005 2:55:45 AM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 16

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/13/2005 4:19:13 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I agree mystoferin, it is a shame we have to guard ourselves from those who would read an "opinion" as gospel, but it happens. I personally assume that what it being said, particularly if it's a controversial subject, is an opinion, so no disclaimer needed. But alas, I as well will put an IMHO after a comment, if it's borderline on starting a rukus.....but then again, that's just my opinion.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 17

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/13/2005 8:12:24 AM

SherriA

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

It seems pretty basic, to me. Some things are fact and others are opinion. There needs to be a way to differentiate between the two.

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)

Fact: something that has actual existence : a matter of objective reality (Merriam-Webster)

Feathers are bound to ruffle when fact and opinion are interchanged randomly. Disclaimers, when used appropriately, are a way to keep the two separate.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 18

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/13/2005 8:33:40 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

Disclaimers have a purpose. They help set the boundaries in an arena for discussion.

Personally I wouldn't be ' in a lifestyle' that sets boundaries or rules I have no wish to follow. Which is why BDSM is appealing to me. Whilst i agree disclaimers can have a purpose in trying to set a boundry, they rarely achieve such. Doesn't stop me using one if I wish to, but relying on such to do the impossible seems naive to me.

I believe you misunderstood. I meant boundaries for a conversation not for what people want to explore.

e.g.: if I say "in the following post, I want to address issue A without necessarily discrediting issues B & C", then I will avoid 100 posts that accuse me of discrediting issues B & C and more then likely, the discussion will stick to the topic at hand.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 19

RE: Disclaimers.... - 3/13/2005 9:26:40 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Alright. Thats enough kids. To the Corners. NOW! i was ALWAYS taught, if you havent something nice to say then dont say it at all. Guess what Happy? You violated that code of politeness and maturity. There was no need to come in here insult, name call and slam Erin. You've no clue why she does what she does. So unless you take the time to listen to her and discuss things with her, theres no need to judge her. Judge not least you be judged. She isnt any more narrow minded then the rest of us here. WE all have our opionons on what the "lifestyle" should be like. What it should accept.

How dare anyone slam another here for their opionons or there supposed "narrowminedness" i DID think we were adults. i DID think it was a free and open discussion. You dont agree with what she says then shut your mouth and move on. Why are people so threatened when others state how they THINK things should be? Because it is a FACT of there life, doesnt mean its a fact of your life and HELLO, everyone should be grown up enough here to know that. i just cant believe i'm seeing others flamed. Especially people that i like. Erin is a sweet heart. She's kind and friendly and a good person. Thats all that matters. Have you no friends that you disagree with? i have TONS of friends that do things i just dont plain agree with or like what they do. All OVER the fricken country. But guess what? You're NOT going to agree with everything everyone does or says. Its just a FACT of LIFE. People, be grown up. Erin "clarifies" to get her point better across. Because she doesnt want to create any problems. Atleast she doesnt do what i'm about to do.

THIS IS NOT MY OPIONON. These are the FACTS. I am GOD and i know everything. This is the way life works, this is the way BDSM works. This is how adults work. This IS the universal LAW. Because i am a law unto myself and if you dont fit into my VIEWS of whats right and wrong, you are going to be flamed and put down. because it makes ME feel good. i said i was all knowing and perfect, well here is my PERFECT opionon. Dont like it? Too bad, i'm right and you're wrong

Funny, Erin has never put down anyone here because of their views. She's merely stated her own and tried to work it out with those who get all "fiestied" up about her opionons.

Guess what? You (in the general sense) might not like what i have to say.

i could care less. You (of course that general sense again) are just words typed on the screen and meaningless to me in my life. (Unless of course i've taken the time to get to know you) Which is why whatever (you in the general) have to say about it, matters not. i only get upset now, because i see a good person getting flamed by others childish behaviors. Point is? i could care less. i'm pissed off and irate that we even have to discuss this because it SHOULD be known. (you in general) Should know that others opionons arent facts. They're like a holes, everyones got one. For people to take others opioons out of context and make them facts. Well thats a personal problem isnt it?

Plus, not everyone could be as perfect as i am. Just keep trying and you might be there one day.

<happy sigh> Now wont it just be fun watching everyone hop up and down and get all excited over this post? Getting their panties in a twist and getting all excited over something merely as my opionon and the way i feel.

<watches discussion fly out the door> i guess all the adult discussion has gone out the door. Since we cant respect other's opionons and voice our own with out putting others down.

Gee, look how low i've stooped. i'm here on your (you in general) level

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/13/2005 9:33:31 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 20

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