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Forgive? - 3/12/2005 1:51:01 PM   
fireangel


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/12/2005
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< Message edited by fireangel -- 3/18/2005 12:09:48 AM >
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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 2:17:20 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Love isn't enough, you have to add communication, respect, honesty and trust to that. Then you have to look deep inside and see it for what it was and what it was meant to be. Before you make any rash decisions you have to decide if this relationship is one you really and truly want, if it is, then it gets easier to "forget" and move on.

First you have to identify the jealousy (cuz that's what it is):

According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary…

Jealous:
1. Fearful or suspicious of being displaced by a rival in affection or favors.
2. Vindictive toward another because of supposed or actual rivalry.
3. Vigilant in guarding: to be jealous of a privilege.
4. Resulting or arising from jealousy: jealous fears.
5. Demanding exclusive worship and love. Jealous God

or:

Synonyms according to Roget’s Thesaurus….

Jealous:
Possessive, envious, resentful, demanding, monopolizing, protective, watchful, covetous, begrudging, mistrustful, suspicious, skeptical, doubting, jaundiced, insecure, apprehensive, green-eyed*: see also envious 2, suspicious 1 –

And what it is not:

Ant. Trusting, confiding, forgiving.

Why did I bother to type out the meanings? Because I wanted you to see Jealousy for what it truly is. Please take notice of the definitions and synonyms that speak of mistrust, insecurity, doubt, envy and skeptical as well as the opposite… Trust.

So how do you “fix” the relationship that suffers from jealousy? Start with complete honesty and communication. There has to be rules for E/everyone involved, poly or not. There has to be discipline and restraint, emotional and physical bonds, as well as trust in each other. There has to be understanding of what each emotion causes not only in O/ones own mind, but in the partners as well. We A/all have to understand that to be jealous of the other is, in an unspoken way, saying that Y/you don’t trust them, that you doubt their commitment to the relationship, that in some way they have caused Y/you to be insecure. This is very serious in a D/s relationship where total trust is not just a good idea, it’s a necessity! Especially if you are talking about going to poly. There just isn't any room for it in that type of relationship.

You need to tell him that you are having problems "wrapping your mind around it" and perhaps simply sharing the truth of the event wasn't enough. You need more then that, you need closure, you need to know that it just ISN'T going to happen again.. period. We (Scooter and I) don't have that concern, if either one of us sees someone we would be interested in "fooling around" with, we tell the other. For some reason that has kept it from happening. Scooter said it's because we have taken the mystery and thrill out of it. I don't know for sure, but I do know that I have no worries about that at all, and neither does he. I just think that "cheating" on another is like that childhood thing... you know, it's cool till you get caught?

Jewel



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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 2:24:23 PM   
shay


Posts: 63
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline 		The problem with cheating is it destroys trust, and once trust is gone so is respect and often closes down all lines of communication. Without trust, respect and communication, no relationship can survive.. period!

The action that caused it is still there. It needs to be discussed thoroughly and then and only then you have to look inside your heart and see if trust can be rebuilt. If it cant, hon, the relationship is basically dead, only a living shell of existance. Only you can know in your heart if you can forgive and forget.

good luck!
Shay

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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 3:39:30 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Maybe I am just not understanding what jewel is saying, but my personal view is that jealousy may be there, but not really the subject.

Trust. Can you trust Him again. Forget jealousy. If you have trust, then jealousy will be non existant. If you have trust, then you have no problems. He did something that hurt you. You need to discover if it was a genuine mistake (Dominants aren't perfect and do fuck up sometimes and those that understand they do and can, are the most wise of all) or if he did it without contemplating His sub. If it is the later, then it's quite possible He will do it again. And as much as you love Him, you must care for yourself first, so He can care for you fully. If He made a mistake... then communicate. Find out why. Find out with whom. Find out what He and you can do to regain the trust and if you want to work on it equally, then do so.

If you believe that He may be interested in poly... ask Him if He will explain this to you. If you never want to be poly, then explain your fears... always talk. Then you can decide... in submitting to this Man you are accepting that He will help you learn His view of poly. Not accepting doesnt mean you would be jealous, just not prepared to take that limit. That you are being true to yourself and to Him.

Do you have to forget to forgive. I would say no. Don't forget, but learn from the experience. Be that with or without Him. Don't be afraid to remember, just don't linger... forgiving is the act of you, moving on. Whether thats alone or with Him.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 5:55:19 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		You can forgive, but not forget. Forgiving is not saying, what you did to me is okey, what is it is saying, okey this happend, but i am going to let go of it, i do no longer harbor any bad feelings for you aboute it. But that do not mean that everything is okey and that one can continue just as before.

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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 6:25:26 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		In such a situation one must first, I think, ask herself, "Is this something I want to forgive and forget?". I can't say much more than that because for me it is an unforgivable breach of trust. When I discovered my ex had cheated, the relationship, such as it was, effectively ended.
Timothy

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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 8:41:53 PM   
wetsub000


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		You say you've worked through it, but it doesn't really sound that way. Seems you really have doubts and have lost your trust in your Dominant. Personally I've always found that my instincts are right. I think you need to think long and hard about this and decide if the relationship is worth pursuing and if it is, then you need to keep talking to him about it, keep working at it. Don't just listen to his words, but also what he doesn't or won't say.

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RE: Forgive? - 3/12/2005 9:17:27 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

You can forgive, but not forget. Forgiving is not saying, what you did to me is okey, what is it is saying, okey this happend, but i am going to let go of it, i do no longer harbor any bad feelings for you aboute it.


Very well said nella. Hubby forgave me for my affair. In fact He partially blamed Himself for not satisfying my needs. He will never forget it though, how can He, unless He develops alzheimers? We are still working on the trust issue and it's been almost two years now.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Forgive? - 3/13/2005 7:15:39 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		thank you, i am glad to hear that you are working on it. Perhpa you can look positive on it, if your relationship is strong enogh to survive that, it is rather strong, and can survive alot.

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RE: Forgive? - 3/13/2005 8:06:01 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		It all boils down to: Choice

You either choose to forgive or you do not. It is not an easy situation to be in. The whole forgetting remains for some time, if not forever...but is that something that should be thrown in their face at each thought of doubt? No.
Working on the relationship...communicating...negotiating and doing what they say they are going to do..not just saying what they will do helps getting past the issue. It does take time....it takes time for that trust to build again, but it can be done. If the relationship is worth working out....then talktalktalk and realise that you may have to talk about how you are feeling every time he walks out the door. Actions will speak louder than any words at this point.

It's not easy when this happens...but if the relationship is something you both want to keep then i highly suggest you both sit down and lay everything out on the table...nothing hidden. Communication IS the key.

I know this does not take away the fear/anger/hurt/doubt/jealousy that you may have..............but it is up to you to make that Choice.

I wish you much peace....

~smilezz~




_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

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RE: Forgive? - 3/13/2005 8:33:31 AM   
MidnightWriter


Posts: 131
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, there is such a thing as forgiveness, and I believe that you're displaying that quality by trying to make your relationship work regardless of past pain - though that pain may not seem to be very far in the past now.

As has been ably said, trust is the real issue you're dealing with here, and nobody should be surprised at that. Trust builds slowly even when it's undamaged - when trust has been broken, it's a long process to rebuild it. Mere months are not going to put the issue behind you two - that is likely to take years.

I'll admit - in my own relationships, I'm not as eager to forgive and work past as might be good for me - once I've been lied to (which is, after all, what cheating is about), I'm not likely to want to put more energy into that relationship. That you are willing to try is admirable.

If I were trying to rebuild trust after such a breach, I'd view total honesty as an essential tool. If they continue to lie, or hold secrets that they must hide from me, the trust simply won't be rebuilt.

Your post was unclear on this point (and it's really none of my business, but I'll ask to encourage you to consider the answer) - were you two talking about polyamory before he'd cheated, or was polyamory seen as a solution to his desire to have more than one sub? Most of my relationships have been poly, so the numbers may be skewed - but the vast majority of the times I've been cheated on were in a poly relationship, where honesty would have been acceptable. For me, it's not that they're with someone else - it's that they were okay with deceiving me that hurts.

If you are totally honest with each other from now on, the trust can be rebuilt, but it won't be quick - it's a long road to walk. If there is further deception, you'll have to decide whether you can remain in a relationship in which he'll be dishonest with you about monogamy. Some can be satisfied with that - only you can decide whether you will be.

I hope that it doesn't come to that, that the trust between you two isn't further damaged, and wish you the best of luck with some very tough decisions.

_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

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RE: Forgive? - 3/13/2005 9:51:34 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Anne Lamott wrote "...not forgiving is like drinking rat poison and waiting for the rat to die." In the long run it hurts you more than it does the rat. But before you can forgive, you have to own your hurt, your anger, your despair.

I heard a long time marriage counsellor explain that in most cases of infidelity the person who cheated feels awful when exposed. He will bend over backwards to make amends... but after a couple months, he has forgiven himself. But the person who was betrayed is still devastated - she has had her world blown apart and can not forgive yet. Her trust needs to be rebuilt and it takes time. And perhaps it might take counselling too, either as a couple or as an individual.

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RE: Forgive? - 3/13/2005 2:57:53 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Forgive? I suppose this would be possible, perhaps even necessary. Forget? Symantics I suppose, but I don't see this happening, I would say it could be put far enough on the "back burner" that it isn't really being held over his head, but it can't be erased as if it was a hard drive. I don't have a jealous bone in my body, but being betrayed, having someone betray my trust, I would be devastated. In your case, you have to be the one to make that ultimate decision (as already mentioned), you are the one who actually has to live with it. Myself, I don't know how I would react, to my knowlege I haven't had it happen, if I did in the past, I am glad I didn't know. Luckily I don't see it ever happening now. As SJ mentioned, yes we are poly but we also have feelings as well, thus we have communication to negate any possibility. There is a very large divide between poly and cheating, I'm don't feel they are even related, so I personally don't see (even if he mentioned that) that as a valid excuse. I hope you do come to a conclusion you can feel comfortable with.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

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