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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 5:46:07 AM   
topcat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Jesus Christ did not eat at McDonalds nor did he drink Pepsi.

Case proved.


Dear Chris-
 
You completely lost me on this one- it doesn't matter what he ate- he still got nailed to a tree at 33yoa...
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 6:02:14 AM   
pahunkboy


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How did I jump into your body and post this?  See what terrible influence I have on todays eye candy? errrrrrrrrrr I mean youth!


tre YOU ROCK!

keep em cummming!

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 9:31:10 AM   
MsStick


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I too must admit confusion to the whole 'Jesus didn't eat McRot so it must be wrong' line of thinking.

What on earth has that got to do with the price of chips?!

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 5:13:46 PM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyone4you

Some people are slender, some are more curvy.  Sure metabolism has a lot to do with it.  What some fail to realize is that many can increase their metabolism through diet & exercise.

What struck me about your post, treswank, was about people taking responsibility for their actions.  As an opinionated, overweight American, I have a hard time with anyone telling me how to live my life.  Isn't that what you are doing here?  And by telling me that I should try to lose weight, aren't you taking the responsibility from me?  You would be my motivation, if I had a stake in what you said.  By allowing you to decide I need to lose weight, then because of your words try to lose weight, I am a mindless drone.   LOL, not a very good idea on your part there.


    If listening to common sense turns one into a mindless shell of a person, then I'm hoping and praying to become a vacuous hole of anti-matter.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 5:13:56 PM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Jesus Christ did not eat at McDonalds nor did he drink Pepsi.

Case proved.


Neither did Buddha, but he was still a chubbo.

...dave

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 5:29:22 PM   
dcnovice


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This may seem like a hijack, but I think it's related to the core issue of the thread.

Why do you smoke, Tre? Surely you know the damage it does to you (and anyone nearby).

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it's never enough to keep up.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/15/2007 6:54:56 PM   
RobertCloud


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Rationalization over an addiction...
Yet there is a problem... Overweight people may rationalize their obesity by saying it is not their fault. In some cases it truly is not their fault, and to try to lump all overweight people into one category is as prejudiced as saying all people of one color, or one creed, or one sex do something alike. This is simply not true and is sterotyping based on an appearance characteristic.

There are many medical reasons that do increase weight besides lack of exercise or overeating.
Thyroid issues, steroid medications for pain, other medications for one issue or another, accidents that prevent the normal functions of life and the list goes on. You cannot make the bold statement lumping all into one category.

I also am completely offended by the idea that overweight people all blame others or are ignorant. Many overweight people are highly intelligent and have been seen as some of the most intelligent and wise people of all time. Someone even mentioned Buddha, a man whose wisdom shaped an entire race of people and their beliefs. Kings of nations, masters of arts and industry, leaders of business and finance, so do not place overweight people at the center of ignorance. Orson Welles, Marlon Brando, Elvis Presley, Elizabeth Taylor, W.C. Fields, Henry VIII, along with Kings of almost every nation in Europe and Asia have been overweight, in fact more have been overweight than have been slender for weight was considered a sign of wealth at one time.

In the Renaissance an overweight woman was considered far more beautiful than a slender woman. Just look at the artwork from the time period. Our vision of the thin, svelte woman as being beautiful has led to more deaths from anorexia and bulemia because of models trying to reach that size zero than any other issue in history. The use of corsets to make women thinner because thin became vogue has killed more women that will ever be reported. There are many journals of medicine than claim that 10% body fat is the preferred percentage of body fat on a woman, and yet our visions of slender women have women trying to get to 5% or less. Jackie Joyner Kersie (sp) died because of this, there was not enough body fat in her system to keep her heart functioning properly.

Admittedly, you are not talking about the woman that is only 10% bodyfat, you are talking the one that weighs 300, when she should weigh 130. Perhaps it is her lifestyle, and perhaps it is her fault and she is blaming someone else. Or perhaps it is the fact that we are bombarded with commercial after commercial of food products and that most of these food products are designed to be high in carbs and fat. Fastfood, the marvel of modern America, is also the downfall. Even the healthy fastfood has more calories in one meal than most people should eat in their entire day. Yet we eat that and then we eat two other meals and snacks as well.

Then the diet industry produces a diet additive that reduces the calories to zero but what does it do. It bonds to the fat cells of your body and prevents you from burning them as fast as you normally would. So you only burn what you are taking in, you don't lose weight, and it you eat too many fat calories you gain and have even more problems losing.

Many of the medications that are out now are in fact designed to counteract the bad side effects of the additives in our food. You say we are not being poisoned. Find out how many of the additives that are in American food that are prohibited in other nations' foods and find out why and then say we are not being poisoned. The worse part is the FDA knows we are and they are not doing anything about it because they are being paid off.

Then we get the people that complain about fat people and what are they... They are addicts of another kind. To cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, or something else. To me that is hypocrisy of the worst kind and is the pot calling the kettle black.

Someone mentioned Jesus, well Jesus also said "Don't judge others until you have first removed the mote from your own eye."
Until you are sin free, which no one ever will be, you have no business trying to judge anyone else over their appearance, for that is not even a sin, but especially when you are addicted to something else that is just as disgusting and foul and makes your mouth taste and smell like an ashtray.


[For your information. I used to weigh 475 pounds. I got to that point due to the fact that after an auto accident in 1985 I have suffered from a non-stop headache. It has been constant, every day, 24 hours a day, and any form of exercise or major exertion increases the headache to the point that I had to be taken to ER several times to receive shots. When I hit 475 I said enough was enough. My sedentary lifestyle, the work I did was AutoCAD drafting, at a computer all day, and at home I rested to get my head to stop hurting.
I created my own diet plan. In six months I lost 100 pounds before the doctor ordered me to stop the diet because I had caused my blood sugar to go into a massive state of flux. My body had no idea what to do. One day my blood test would say I was hypoglycemic and a week later doing the same test would show me as diabetic. So I stopped the diet but watched what I ate. Over the next three years I regained 20 pounds and got back to 395. I refused to go over 400 so I decided a different diet, again of my own design and I got back down to my current weight of 347.
My long term goal is 225. That will still be about 40 pounds more than the charts say I should weigh, once I get to 225 I will decide if I want to go the rest of the way, but it is that last 40 pounds that is the hardest and that is why I set my goal there.
I have been heavy most of my life, but I maintained my weight at about 290 until the auto accident. I never blamed anyone, and even at 290 I was stronger than most men my size, I could lift my body weight and more, and I could leg press in the gym 1200 pounds like it was nothing. That was the max the machine went to. My best friend and I would do curl competitions using 50 pounds, 10 reps, 15 sets, as fast as we could, 4 times a week. This was nothing. Now with my right arm I cannot even lift a gallon of milk without intense pain.
I can still lift and carry 100 pounds over my left shoulder like it was nothing, but I will pay for it with a severe headache, and my right shoulder screaming for several days.
So do not tell me that all overweight people are to blame, yes, I was to blame for my weight up to 290, beyond that, when it skyrocketed, that I was not to blame, I even watched and cut down what I was eating, it still kept climbing. I got down to where I was eating less than what is suggested for a woman per day and I was still gaining. I only broke the cycle when I began fasting, and I fasted sometimes for as much as 4 days at a time. I cannot do that now, I am diabetic and I would go into a coma. Yet, I am losing an average of 2.5 pounds a week.]

< Message edited by RobertCloud -- 2/15/2007 7:12:25 PM >


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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/16/2007 2:25:28 AM   
dirtyfemm


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TreSwank:

I totally agree.

Obesity is a major health issue. It is not about beauty + or -

It is not shallow to want a healthy partner.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/16/2007 3:50:46 AM   
Rumtiger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Jesus Christ did not eat at McDonalds nor did he drink Pepsi.

Case proved.


Neither did Buddha, but he was still a chubbo.

...dave




I think he loved fried foods though.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 2:32:02 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This may seem like a hijack, but I think it's related to the core issue of the thread.

Why do you smoke, Tre? Surely you know the damage it does to you (and anyone nearby).


Must admit I'm a little disappointed that the usually loquacious Tre hasn't answered my qustion. But then, it's much easier to confront others' rationalizations than one's own.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 3:08:07 PM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This may seem like a hijack, but I think it's related to the core issue of the thread.

Why do you smoke, Tre? Surely you know the damage it does to you (and anyone nearby).


Must admit I'm a little disappointed that the usually loquacious Tre hasn't answered my qustion. But then, it's much easier to confront others' rationalizations than one's own.


   I smoke because nine out of ten doctors recommend the occasional "after-meal cigarette".  Cigarettes are scientifically proven to contain vitamins A, C, and a cholesterol fighting agent called yellow #5.  Besides, smoking is fun, sexy, and cool.  No one has ever died from cigarette smoke.  As a matter of fact, you can get sick from NOT SMOKING.   I would presonally recommend "Doctor's Choice" brand cigarettes to responsible, health-minded citizens.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 2/17/2007 3:10:13 PM >

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 3:44:25 PM   
Stephann


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A few thoughts;

Great thread, Tre.  Living in less than optimal conditions in a third world country myself, I've grown to learn the value of working for one's meal.  The medical community brings in billions of dollars annually, thanks to 'pass the buck' mentality.  No question, most doctors want to see their patients live healthy lives, but they must reconcile the fact that prescribing exercise ranks up there with prescribing prayer; both would likely be helpful, but it's unlikely the patient in question will actually follow such a prescription (and will shortly afterwards, find a new doctor who is more willing to agree that there is some condition at work, and prescribe a magic pill or surgery to treat it, at their HMO's expense.)  Better to keep the client happy, by telling him what he obviously wants to hear.

EDIT: as an additional thought, I don't see Tre as being hypocritical.  One needn't be a piller of morality, to utter what is clearly true.  I drink, probably more than is wise.  I do so, knowing the consequences, the risks, and the damage it does.  The difference is that I don't point the finger at others who drink, and say they shouldn't.  I would point at alchoholics who claim drinking isn't their fault; they have a natural, genetic predisposition, and society should embrace their disability.  If my drinking affects someone negatively, I am still responsible for that.  Considering that we, as consumers, are ultimately responsible for the medical bills paid by an HMO or insurance for the cost of health care, we as customers have a vested interest in the health care costs associated with those personal choices.  If you want to drink?  Drink.  Want to smoke?  Smoke.  Eat too much?  Go for it!  But the health care costs associated with your -choice- should be borne by you, personally; not an insurance company, and certainly not (god help us) the government (when we, as we clearly are getting ready to do, move towards a 'free' health care system.)

Stephan


< Message edited by Stephann -- 2/17/2007 3:53:13 PM >


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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 3:54:31 PM   
domiguy


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Tre...I am worried....Not about what happens to the obese....They all live an incredibly lonely life full of missed opportunities and then die. Alone....Covered in their own puke and feces...But Tre!!! Tell me that Shabani will be o.k.!  What if he looses his leaky bucket...Or his faith in the world starts to wane and he becomes a terrorist or a slave trader dealing in Hot!!! Hot!!! Russian women....Just look me square in he eye and tell me that Shabani is going to be just fine!  Please.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 7:45:05 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I smoke because nine out of ten doctors recommend the occasional "after-meal cigarette".  Cigarettes are scientifically proven to contain vitamins A, C, and a cholesterol fighting agent called yellow #5.  Besides, smoking is fun, sexy, and cool.  No one has ever died from cigarette smoke.  As a matter of fact, you can get sick from NOT SMOKING.   I would presonally recommend "Doctor's Choice" brand cigarettes to responsible, health-minded citizens.


Awesome, dude. And I thought i was an adept rationalizer!

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 7:46:09 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Just look me square in he eye and tell me that Shabani is going to be just fine! 


He'll do great. As long as he doesn't get sick from not smoking.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 7:54:50 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I don't see Tre as being hypocritical


Are you serious?!


quote:

If you want to drink?  Drink.  Want to smoke?  Smoke.  Eat too much?  Go for it! 


Fine by me. Just don't expect my respect (not that it's a highly coveted commodity) if you're practicing your vice/addiction while starting a whole thread to slam other people for theirs.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 2/17/2007 8:02:44 PM >


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No matter how cynical you become,
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JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 8:05:02 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


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I don't make excuses for my weight as I find that some of it IS my own fault--- I don't always eat the way that I should even though I never over eat...I have hypothyroidism and am now on the maximum dosage allowed and STILL my weight is leveled off, I AM NOT gaining weight but not losing it either lol...so ..sometimes, you can climb a hill but if it's mad of mud what's the use?

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 9:08:54 PM   
FelinePersuasion


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I don't either, I am fat because I ate likea  pig when I was 16-17 and have not w*orked out or taken care of myself or anything and I don't care to put forth the effort right now to loose weight lol.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

I don't make excuses for my weight

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 9:10:05 PM   
kate


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i am canadian, not american, but it is similar enough that i feel my input is valid.....i am fat becasue i am poor...i exercise at the campus gym 4 times a week..but i eat Mr. Noodles and Kraft Dinner (mac and cheese) almost every day beacsue i have no money...when i am at home at my parent's place i eat whole foods and organic veggies.. but i can't even afford the not organic veggies when i'm at school...the life of a student just leads to weight gain....but that dosen't mean i'm going to stop trying...i have 4 months at home each year and i usually loose 20-40 Lbs.....if i can just manage to not gain it all back....hmmmmmm

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RE: Overweight Americans: Masters of Rationalization - 2/17/2007 9:11:02 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


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maybe i just need more sex in my life...it IS good exercise.... haven't had any since yesterday

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