Putting things Straight

Putting things Straight (Full Version)

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RiotGirl -> Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 12:30:42 PM)
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MsSilvie -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 12:59:39 PM)
I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to. Other than it's easy to see you are upset about something, I can't tell if this is a response to something that happened in the forums or something that happened personally to you. I don't think anyone is going to argue that bdsm folks are open-minded as a general rule. Some are, but for every open-minded person you find in the lifestyle, there will be several examples of the most moronic self-righteous, pompous assholes you will ever find. People whose own lives are completely out of control, yet they have a recipe for everyone else to live by. Things change. BDSM isn't the same today as it was 20 years ago, it won't be the same 20 years from now. Change is a constant. People adapt to it, or they get left behind. You have insight into your situation and life. There's no reason you have to feel influenced or put down by other people. Life, for the most part is what you want to make of it. I live by rules, but they are rules that I have chosen. I don't follow anyone's definition of what it means to have a marriage or a family or to be involved in bdsm. Why shouldn’t I have it my way? I’m not here to live my life to satisfy someone else’s expectations. Everyone makes their own choices about what they do. If someone disapproves of your choice, it's probably not bad to try to understand exactly what they disapprove of. But chances are, flamers can't really put it into coherent words... and if they can't, that says a lot about their thought process. I have no problem personally saying I disagree with the way some folks live. But I respect their right to make their own decisions. quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl Ok, i am so SEVERELY IRATE right now, i can hardly get it out. You all are so cool. If anyone hasnt gathered yet, i am not cool nor do i care to be cool. Funny thing is, you (GENERAL SENSE) are so threatened by the old ways of BDSM that your insecurities come out in your posts. Your flames, your attacks, your disrespect for others. So cool, so posh, so know it all, so right, so narrow minded that you cant even see it. Those of us who BELIEVE in the "old school" that all words do have a meaning, that believe in the way things should be, used to be and are falling from are ATLEAST open to the way things are changing. We're considerate of you. We dont flame you, attack you, or disrespect you because BDSM is whatever you want it mean. GUESS WHAT. BDSM isnt the way you want it to be. Atleast it shouldnt be. Its not Burger King. Words are not the way you want them to be either. EVERY damn word has its own defintion. Every meaning with in the lifestyle has its very OWN meaning. And if i could be bothered enough, i'd run through every damn post and pull out every Burger King thread i saw and put it straight. But noooooooooooooooo... everyone wants it like burger king. Everything means as who ever wants it to mean. Its not like that, stop kidding yourself. Thats how YOU want it. Deal with it, you are re defining BDSM to fit your own personal agenda. Plain and simple. Those of us that know this are still ACCEPTING of you that dont. We dont flame, we dont disrespect, we dont put you down. Plain and simple you are just threatened, so you twist things around and take it that way. Childish. Lucky for you i am in the minority, as there are so many more cool people who have been able to jump into BDSM with this new trend going on. If you new and cool people, who know so much and love Burger King so much couls just sit back and relax. Realise as we have realised that opionons are just that. If you could just accept us with our opionons as we have of yours. We'd get along much better, wouldnt we? i wouldnt have start monitering everything and put people straight. Would that be nice if you could be as open minded as you say you are? Oh yeah, you can hate me, flame me, insult me and put me down for my OPIONON because yours is so much more correct. i dont really care as my opionon is going to be my opionon, its not going to change. i know what i like, i know what i agree with. As do you. People dont change. Point being, lets grow up, get some respect, maturity, politeness and acceptance. On all ENDS. Not just on things that are "ok" to you. Or fit into your mold. Real acceptance. Real openmindeness. Cos seriously.. i'm only seeing people accept what they want to accept. Which really, isnt openminded at all is it?

BeachMystress -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 1:37:37 PM)
hugs It's ok, you're not alone. I'm also boggled at a lot of the attitudes on here. You just need to realize that not everyone is as far along in their journey and they haven't come to those realizations yet (and possibly might never.) Personally, I feel that part of the journey of BDSM is self realization, emotional maturity and self control for both Dominants and submissives. A lot of people seem to not be actively seeking personal growth. I realize being a Dominant is different for everyone, but there should be some constants, and I feel striving to better yourself and your submissive is one of those. While I think that everyone should apply their own slant to things such as sub, slave, switch and Dominant, I feel it is within the bounds of the original definition. While things like a collar can have personal meanings attached, they should be given for commitment on both sides. Where as the traditional meaning of collars is that of an engagement ring, some are now using it to show they are dating. This devalues the meaning of the original, and the rash of people saying.. it is ok.. collars mean what you want them to mean, doesn't help. I don't consider myself old guard, but I do respect words, meanings and commonly held traditions. BDSM has had a huge influx of people due to the internet. These people are bringing the worst of society's attitudes with them. They've not been doing it long (less than 5 years) in many cases and have not developed to the point of respecting BDSM as a lifestyle, even if they think they have. The biggest problem with so many people coming in is they are changing the entire framework of BDSM. It is a hobby to many; a way they play at times. That is fine and good. I welcome them to the lifestyle and feel they have stuff to offer in terms of opinions and such. I believe everyone should be comfortable with the level at which they participate in BDSM. What I don't agree with is that those people get to decide by sheer force of numbers: that collars mean just anything, that they are a slave even without having a Dominant, that they are submissive (rather than someone who has the desire to submit) without ever having done so in real life, that they should give advice to people on how BDSM works even if they've never engaged in BDSM anywhere but the computer, that all kinks are ok means only till one morally offends them- such as a married person wishing to indulge their kink for the lifestyle outside the bounds of marriage, that it is ok to leave manners at the door, that being submissive means that a sub should grovel to anyone with the self given title of Mistress or Master, that you don't have to have any knowledge or skills to decide to call yourself by some title- I still consider myself a Domme, rather than a Mistress, even though I have more actual experience than most people I meet who are not Pro or 24/7.. I could go on, but it gets dull quickly. I guess my bottom line is live and let live as long as you respect the framework, such as the traditons and definitions that have defined the lifestyle. That open mind doesn't mean open till something offends you morally. If you're going to use that saying when it is convenient to you, you use it when it isn't. And finally, respect goes both ways. Learning to control personal reactions to emotions is part of maturity and you should be able to give respect (or at least not be rude) even when disagreeing with someone.

RiotGirl -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 1:59:09 PM)
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ScooterTrash -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 2:27:06 PM)
Tis true RG, I have seen what you speak of and it does seem to be that there are many who would have the enitire lifestyle modified to fit their little niche. Luckily, although I know you see the rudely outspoken and boisterous in places where they have a larger audience, I have to deep down feel they are the minority. I have met many in various places that are actually true old school "stylers", I have met as well many that are uncertain what old school even is, I take both with equal grains of salt unless they attempt to force their way on me. I try to be civil, friendly and respectful to anyone I interact with until the time comes where give me reason to do different. Are there "BurgerKingers" out there, certainly and there always will be. They need to understand that on their own turf and in real time, that's where they can get it their way, sans lettuce, cheese or whatever. I think this may be where some of the problem lies, although not wanting to seperate it into U/us and T/them, perhaps the distinction comes from real life on one side of the field and on-line on the other. I usually just read posts that go off on a tangent trying to be cute or flaming as an outburst of someone who isn't taking themselves, BDSM, D/s or life in general seriously. I read things I do not agree with but I don't try to be as the ones you speak of and come out all "Hollier than thou", spouting my opinion as the law of the land. So I guess...yep, I see what you see and do wish we could all just get along, of course then we would probably be accused of not being human by a human...just can't satisfy everyone I guess.

submom2 -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 2:58:07 PM)
RiotGirl, I so know what you mean. That's the reason why I don't post often anymore. I only lurk around. I know what I like. I know what I want. Now, does that fall into a specific BDSM catigory? Hell if I know. I don't get involved in the discussions on here, or any other board. I pick and choose when it comes to what I enjoy. How could I classify myself as anything other than me? When introducing someone else to this, one of the first things I tell them is this is what YOU make it. It isn't what some group of people decide is right or what isn't right. In short, we're all different. What one views as a specific definition might not be what the world sees. Tolerance, we preach it but don't practice.

BeachMystress -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 2:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash perhaps the distinction comes from real life on one side of the field and on-line on the other How funny, I was just thinking this when reading riot's response. I do find that people who actually practice BDSM or D/s real time rather than virtual tend to respect the definitions more. quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl i got abit irate and my emotional immature side came out We all have our moments, and I actually didn't consider your outburst immature. Emotional, certainly, but you stated your facts without resorting to personal insults or nasty attacks. Anger isn't always immature. There are times when it is warranted. Even when it isn't warranted by others standards, if it is handled with grace, it is acceptable. We're human. We have emotions. It is how we deal with them that counts.

January -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 3:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl i am ready to start bullying people into better behavoir and acting nice. Say what?

BeachMystress -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 3:41:31 PM)
I believe she means she is going to start calling people on hypocritical behaviour.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 5:58:15 PM)
Funny how people can say they are tolerant of other people's beliefs on one hand, and on the other say they know how it should be for everyone. Personally, my relationship is between me and my partner, and no one else, so we are going to "have it our way" and why the heck should anyone else even care? Other people's lives are their business. Why should I care whether their definition of anything is the same as mine as long as we respect each other's right to live? There will always be people who think they can police the BDSM community...I say who died and made them "Grand Poobah"? I just shrug my shoulders when I meet them, say "Have a nice day. nice to meet ya." and continue on living my life the way I believe is best. I just have more important things to do with my life than to police others who aren't hurting me a bit.

RiotGirl -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 6:33:36 PM)
Access denied.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 7:02:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl GUESS WHAT. BDSM isnt the way you want it to be. Atleast it shouldnt be. Wow, I guess the BDSM police are going to breaking down my door any minute now. I think I've been doing it all wrong! I thought it was about consensual acts between two legal adults, not a sport with rules and referees. quote: Words are not the way you want them to be either. EVERY damn word has its own defintion. Wow, words just have one correct definition, now? As a writer I always thought most words have more than one...Damn, my dictionary must be out of date. Ah well, to each their own. The nice thing about being an adult is that I don't feel the need to tell others what to believe.

ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 7:53:59 PM)
cinful, you didn't get riotgirl's post at all.

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:00:41 PM)
Seems to me, there's a whole group of mindsets out there sharing one basic idea: We're supposed to be tolerant of all those who think differently than we do, EXCEPT for those who have the temerity to suggest there are some things that are right and wrong. A clue for the clueless: That is not tolerance, that is promototion of moral relativism. While moral relativism is, in fact a valid point of view to defend, let's call it what it is and be done, shall we? There is a valid argument for supporting the moral relativism POV just as there are valid arguments for supporting the moral absolutism POV so let's quit throwing out the red herrings and just debate our respective agendas like adults. How about it? Timothy

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:06:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir cinful, you didn't get riotgirl's post at all. Well, I'm certianly not infallible, so I'm very willing to hear what you believe she is trying to say.

harmony3709 -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:13:35 PM)
Well, I for one would miss Riot Girl on the boards............(smile). I find her enthusiasm and perspective refreshing, interesting, and intelligent. Regarding the OP specifically, I have witnessed a lot of what you mentioned also and have also found myself just skimming through threads now instead of reading them with a feeling of participating in a good discussion. One of the things I really liked about CM were these boards. I will admit that one of the things I liked about this particular forum (site) was that at least it seemed that a large percentage of posters were people with r/t experience. That doesn't give their posts any more credibility, but I do think there are different topics of interest for those who are involved in r/t relationships than online ones. Unfortunately, what is going on here in the forums is a very close replication of what goes in the lifestyle community in my area as well, so I can't say that I'm all that surprised. Skeptic and cynic that I am..........I guess I just expect that at some time, human nature being what it is, there will be conflict due to lack of tolerence, lack of empathy, and lack of humility. I still search out the good discussions on the boards and concentrate on those. I try to stay out of the feuds because quite frankly, I have no interest in participating in them. I have noticed many of the familiar voices have left the boards, which is disappointing, but it happens. There have been some interesting new points of view and voices as well, and which I enjoy the new perspectives, as it keeps discussions from getting stale. I will continue to lurk until I see that the good discussions have ceased. Personally, I think that people end up latching on to a phrase or two in a post, even a single word or two, and then get all worked up over those few words instead of looking at the entire post and the overall meaning and idea being expressed. You know, in any given verbal conversation, one may not agree with the exact way another said something, but if they understand the meaning, don't pick apart every word and phrase -- otherwise conversation and discussion would be nearly impossible. Look at the whole, not the minute. harmony

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:28:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176 We're supposed to be tolerant of all those who think differently than we do, EXCEPT for those who have the temerity to suggest there are some things that are right and wrong. I absolutely agree that there are some situations where right and wrong are clearly defined. I just don't happen to believe that how I submit to my dominant, or what definition we put on our relationship, or on a collar (for instance), is one of those situations where other people can define what's right or wrong. I do know I don't feel justified (or even interested) in telling others whether their path or definitions on these issues are right or wrong.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:30:31 PM)
[/quote] Well, I'm certianly not fallible, so I'm very willing to hear what you believe she is trying to say. [/quote] Obviously I meant to say I'm not infallible...which proves it. Sure glad there's an edit option! ::laughing::

RiotGirl -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:34:10 PM)
Not allowed to have personal information

RiotGirl -> RE: Putting things Straight (3/13/2005 8:41:15 PM)
Access denied.

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