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Mentoring a submissive - 3/14/2005 6:56:15 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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I found 2 great threads on Dom/mes mentoring Dom/mes.

Mentoring question
Mentoring

I would like to know if anyone has had experience as a Dominant mentoring a submissive and if they would be willing to share what it entailed for them.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

Post #: 1

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/14/2005 8:02:51 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

Last fall, I brought a submissive into my home with the intention of givig her a safe haven and the opportunity to get a better grasp on who and what she was and what she was looking for. In that vein, I gave her reading assignments and set aside time to discuss what she was learning and how it impacted her personal beliefs. Ultimately I hoped she would regain her self-confidence and, armed with better self-knowledge, be better prepared to ventire out on her own. I was, and remain, prepared to help her screen potential dominants and remind her when she forgets to make critical inquiries about key points. I have counselled her to speak less of her sexual preferences, when approached by potential dominant partners, and keep her focus on those issues that are critical to the long-term relationship she says she's looking for. I have reviewed her correspondance with potential dominants and pointed out those areas of discussion that bear further investigation and those questions or remarks that I would expect a submissive to be suspicious of.
Ultimately, however, her choices are her own. I counsel but I do not demand obediance. I charge a token amount for room and board and ask for minimal assistance with housework while she's unemployed but require and accept no submission from her beyond what I would ask from anyone living under my roof. I think she has grown in knowledge and is less naive than she was when I first took her in and that is what I hoped for.
I can't say, however, that I would choose to mentor another submissive. It's been frustrating in the extreme at times and the overall level of development has fallen short of what I had hoped to see. This has perhaps been exacerbated by the fact that she's not my "type" of submissive and some concepts seem to be lost on her.
It's different, at least for me, when mentoring a dominant. I can answer a dominant's questions, give advice and walk away if he chooses differently. With a submissive, or at least the one I've been mentoring, I feel responsible for ensuring she's safely settled.
If she chooses to waste both our time and prefers to sit around in her nightclothes all day, engaging in cyber-sex rather than getting out and finding a job or, at least, making better use of her time, my only real option is to turn her out into the heartless world, completely unprepared for the callousness she'll find. Not a position that I want to find myself in.
Timothy

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 2

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/14/2005 9:41:12 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Lady A,

For Me, the bit of mentoring I have done, or tried to do with the best of intentions, has not worked out. A local boy will approach Me and tell Me he wants to learn all the aspects of a D/s lifetyle. he is searchig for his 24/7 Mistress. Also, bear in mind here that I would be mentoring boys who feel he has a slavehood vocation. And that can be quite different from a live-out submissive boy.
For the most part, these boys already have some experience in the sexual kink areas, and know what they like. What I have not been able to succeed with, is teaching them the repetitive, day in and day out tasks, the loyalty, the selflessness they need to be prepared to offer.
The few boys I have made an attempt with have much difficulty in keeping to committments for time, often have other things come up like partying with friends, vacations, etc., complain about cleaning the bathroom, or preparing a meal, doing some laundry, and then get disappointed because they didn't get a spanking. The main concept I am trying to teach is that they must have no expectations. In the end, there is always a personal agenda, and the whining begins. Hence, no slavehood vocation!
I am sure there are some good boys out there who would follow through and are serious about preparing themselves. I have not had the happiness of running into one yet!
I do not charge any money for mentoring, of course, and I seldom do it, even though I am often asked...even begged.
Perhaps I should. Best get to class for there is no tuition refund? It's a thought!
I will be very interested to see what others have to offer on this topic.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 3/14/2005 9:42:00 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 3

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 12:38:41 AM

MistressJadeMTL

Posts: 168
Joined: 12/18/2004
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

Greetings,

I figured I'd put in my 2¢ worth...

I recently took on a young new male submissive in a Mentoring relationship. Pleasantly enough, I met him here on CollarMe and he also lives on the West Island of Montreal; as I have been adamant about having subs that are only local. He is still a college student still living at home, so his time is limited at times, between his regular studies and homework-load.

I have been preparing a general BDSM curriculum, primarily based on readings at this point. Since he is totally new to the scene, they cover quite the range of topics. He must read them and either answer specific question and/or then comment on them in his journal, which is also sent to me.

About every two weeks, he visits in person to act as a service submissive; doing housework, chores and other manual work for me in return. (Some might consider that as a form of tribute...) Afterwards, we often spend another hour or more discussing a variety of topics, either clarifying some articles that I have sent him, or tackling another related topic he might have come across online.

I am definitely trying to train him in such a manner as to a good submissive for any future Dommes; from being aware that not all Dommes like their towels folded in the same way ;) --- to how they may treat him mentally or physically. Also, I want him to be able to make informed decisions concerning this lifestyle (his health, mental well-being, etc.), and not jump into the first relationship that falls his way, without considering overall compatibility and the usual variables.

So far it is working out quite well, and there is definately a good rapport that has been established. The boy definitely has a ways to go (such as being regularly on time) but has made a significant improvement in just a few months.

I have found it a rewarding experience, as I missed teaching very much and I always preferred "adult education" -- hey, that brings a whole new meaning to that phrase!

Hope my shared experience proves helpful to you Angelika. Perhaps we can discuss this more in person if you'd like at some time in the future, perhaps over tea or coffee? Drop me an email or CM note if interested...

_____________________________

~ Mistress Jade Dragon

HeadMistress - FemDomme Society of Canada: http://FemDommeSociety.ca
Montreal BDSM/Fetish Calendar of events: http://ClubFetish.ca/calendar
Blog - Adventures of a HeadMistress - http://femdommesociety.ca/HeadMistress_Jade

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 4

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 3:50:09 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

LadyAngelika, I think one of the most fulfilling things I have ever done in my life was my time spent mentoring a wonderful girl I met in my msn chatroom. She was sweet and pure and loving and to this day she is like one of my kids. When I first met her she was naive and trusted to many of the wrong people. She had been hurt and abused her entire life. We worked together to overcome her fears, all I could do was guide, she did the brunt of the work. All this was online for the first year. We spent hours in chat or on instant messenger. She would call me from time to time just because she needed to hear my voice. I know that at one point in the mentoring she shut down on me, crawled back inside herself. You should have seen me scramble trying to figure out how to call London! She had a lot of get over, but I have to tell you, the girl that came here and spent Christmas with us was a new person! She is still the sweetest, most loving person person I know and I wouldn't trade my time spent working with her for all the money in the world. To me, mentoring isn't about just helping them understand the world of BDSM, it's helping them to understand life and the reality of it. My girl was upset when she realized that I would never take her in an actual collar, that our relationship would never become one that was physical, but she no longer feels that way because she now understands that as her "teacher" I could never do that. She was my student, my friend and my "child". We "raised" her.

I think what it entails is different for each person. But for the most part I would have to say that patience is one of the biggest things, and the desire to do it. You have to be willing to reach out to them when they aren't able to reach out to you. It's just my opinion here, it isn't carved in stone, but I believe that to mentor someone you have to put aside the physical aspects and focus on helping them learn what they need to find the one that is right for them.

Hope this helped some.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 5

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 4:39:41 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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Thank you all for your advice to date.

I can see there have been positive and negative experiences, which is what I was expecting.

I've had one experience to date where I mentored someone online. A close online friend sent him to me, hoping I could help him.

He was to do assigned readings and write in an online journal. We had chats to talk about lifestyle issues and he could ask me questions. He would occasionally fall into the "you are the perfect Mistress LadyAngelika" and I would have to bring him back to order, reminding him that I didn't do long distance or online affairs. One day, he told me he had to leave for a few days because his grandfather was sick and he had to be by his bedside. That was 6 months ago... never heard from him since.

The experience had positives and negatives. It was my first experience mentoring in this realm. I've done it in a more academic realm. Your comments about adult education make me giggle Jade as that is my profession!

The situation that has presented itself to me in the past and now again in the present is that of a young man or woman who is just entering into this realm of wiitwd and has many questions and doesn't know where to start and how to set boundaries. I cannot be "LadyAngelika, saviour of new subbies" and I won't try, but now and then I see a bright young mind and I figure if I don't help them figure a few things out, some succubus surely will.

I will most definitely take you up on your offer Jade, the minute I get over this nasty flu (the same flu that kept me from hooking up with you last weekend at Le Chateau).

I would also love to hear more experiences, ideas, and most importantly, what kind of ground rules do you set at the on start.

Also, I realised in my original post, I addressed only Dominants. If any submissives or switches for that matter want to step in and talk about how mentoring helped them, it would be appreciated as well.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MistressJadeMTL)

Post #: 6

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 5:51:34 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I'm not big on the formal mentoring thing. This is a relationship like any other and people don't need mentoring to be successful in vanilla relationships and there's no real need to need it here. I, again, think it feeds into submissives minds that they NEED someone else to turn to, rather than relying on someone else.

While I'm not against mentoring as a whole, I understand its value when done effectively and support it, I see it more often abused and used as a pecking system more than anything.

The closest you could say I mentor is the sub I am dating and my boyfriend. They were both pretty new to the scene when they got to me and both have social anxieties and trouble letting their confidence show. I talk to them a lot about it and give them exercises and things to focus on in order to do that. I also will give them sexual schooling on the right questions to ask people and things to keep in mind.

I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 7

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 6:23:41 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

When I first began discovering, I was under age legally. I was extremely fortunate to meet a woman who was a great influence to me. Her Dominant mentored me by teaching me things that some people wouldn't see as 'BDSM'... but it came in extremely handy. He talk me politeness, and How to carry myself. He mentored me in cooking, and cleaning, taught me paitence and how to respect myself. Of course, my parents had done a wonderful job already in helping prepare me for life, but He taught me my worth within an alien(at that time to me ) community. By the time I became 'off legal age' I was then progressed onto deeper subjects. My reading increased and I learnt more of how I could be, even when It wasn't my desire(if that makes sense). In my time I have also mentored submissive people, when their Dominants have requested. I have also 'mentored' a Dominant... if that makes sense? Not that I mentored Him, but allowed Him to practise? Not sure if that comes across well...lol.

Not sure if this made sense

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 8

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/15/2005 6:25:50 AM

ShiftedJewel

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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

Absolutely EmeraldSlave, and in the process I believe the mentor learns as well. I learned that I didn't have as much patience as I thought I had, but she taught me along the way. It's a lesson that stuck with me because I had to learn it from a "student".

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 9

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 4:19:59 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
I'm not big on the formal mentoring thing. This is a relationship like any other and people don't need mentoring to be successful in vanilla relationships and there's no real need to need it here. I, again, think it feeds into submissives minds that they NEED someone else to turn to, rather than relying on someone else.

I don't believe anyone ever insinuated that anyone needed to be mentored, whether it be in a vanilla or relationship where wiitwd is involved, in order to be successful in a relationship. However I disagree with you that people in general aren't mentored in vanilla relationships. Society offers a very open model for vanilla relationships, from literature to film, etc. As the vast majority of people "date" and go from one relationship to another, they learn from one another.

When I suggest mentoring someone who is just entering the scene, I do not assume that they will never make it on his or her own. I personally only would choose to mentor someone who showed signs of inner strength and independence. What I suggest is exactly what it is that you are doing with the people you are dating, showing them the ropes so to speak. Teaching doesn’t necessarily have to have a patronizing or superior air to it. In fact, the best teachers are very down to earth with their students.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

You aren’t the only one who thinks that. In fact, that is the fundamental pedagogical purpose of mentorship.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 10

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 4:22:41 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Not sure if this made sense

Made total sense to me! I've actually taught someone to flog, using me as the target. As she got better, giving feedback rather then floating away was tough. <grin>

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 11

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 7:40:01 AM

MidnightWriter

Posts: 131
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I'm not big on the formal mentoring thing. This is a relationship like any other and people don't need mentoring to be successful in vanilla relationships and there's no real need to need it here.

I don't know about you, but I've known several people who needed mentoring to be successful in vanilla relationships. Come to think of it, I was one of 'em.

We are surrounded daily with images of vanilla relationships. We see them modeled on television and in movies, read about them in books, see our friends try things that work, and that don't work. Our general society mentors us, and it still doesn't always work - after all, I've been divorced twice.

For models of d/s relationships, we mostly have bad porn, good (but unrealistic) porn, less-than-sympathetic portrayals in the media, public events in which the collared subs are (hopefully) on their best behavior, and message boards such as this - where, to be frank, anyone can be spouting fiction but presenting it as fact.

If someone has a mentor - another sub or a dominant with whom they don't intend to have a 'Relationship', but from whom they can learn some of the dynamics of a d/s relationship other than by trial and error, this strikes me as A Good Thing.

quote:

I, again, think it feeds into submissives minds that they NEED someone else to turn to, rather than relying on someone else.

Perhaps, but one cannot learn d/s (or anything else) in a vacumn. I'd find it difficult to imagine a submissive who was not aware that not all subs were mentored, so one being mentored would (I would expect) realize that mentoring was not The Only Way.

quote:

While I'm not against mentoring as a whole, I understand its value when done effectively and support it, I see it more often abused and used as a pecking system more than anything.

Hrmmm. I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're saying here.

Some time ago, I approached a submissive who informed me that she was under the protection of ... well, let's call him Sir DomlyDom. "Cool", thinks I - while his style is not my style, he's been around for a while and knows 'most everybody, and it's always good having someone to watch your back. Then I'm informed that all negotiation with her must go through him.

I walked away from the situation right there. While I've no objection to someone getting advice from wherever they wish, I just couldn't see myself asking SirDD for *his* permission. I've no problem with witnesses to negotiation, but relayed negotiation just isn't my kink.

Is this the sort of thing you were talking about?

quote:

The closest you could say I mentor is the sub I am dating and my boyfriend. They were both pretty new to the scene when they got to me and both have social anxieties and trouble letting their confidence show. I talk to them a lot about it and give them exercises and things to focus on in order to do that. I also will give them sexual schooling on the right questions to ask people and things to keep in mind.

I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

If you'll agree to swap the word "independence" for "self-reliance", then we'll be in total agreement. If this is to train someone in a style of relationship, and (to me, anyway) relationship implies interdependence, then I'm not sure that independence is a concept that fits.

_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 12

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 3:54:01 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

I tend to learn the most when I teach. I guess it's because I do research and prepare for the lesson. As far as mentoring, they learn the things I like and dislike. They also learn more on there pain thresholds and what all they can take. And I've always made sure they know how to cook and do laundry. So many ppl these days don't measure out water, spice, and pre heating time. I'm not even going to get into it about seperating clothes, water temperture, and using fabric softener.

When a sub leaves my place, they learn how to care for things, there likes and dislikes, toleration, patience, how pain feels, and that using teeth during a blow job isn't the greatest of ideas.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 13

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 4:00:28 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

and that using teeth during a blow job isn't the greatest of ideas.

I know a whole bunch of men that would disagree with you, submissive, dominant and vanilla. It's all how the teeth are used ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 14

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 4:03:01 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightWriter

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

If you'll agree to swap the word "independence" for "self-reliance", then we'll be in total agreement. If this is to train someone in a style of relationship, and (to me, anyway) relationship implies interdependence, then I'm not sure that independence is a concept that fits.

I believe that being independant and interdependant are not mutually exclusive. I think however they clash with co-dependant.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MidnightWriter)

Post #: 15

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 9:12:36 PM

MoonLotus

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

Some say that when mentoring there should be no sexual involvement beteween the mentor and the one being mentored. Although some believe the opposite. Which one is more widely accepted or is it all up to the individuals involved?

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 16

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/16/2005 9:18:49 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

My understanding is that mentoring should be non-sexual, while training may include sex.

(in reply to MoonLotus)

Post #: 17

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/17/2005 9:11:47 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

Keep it at a cerebral level,or all kinds of things you may not want to have happen-do.

But I always thought having a dom mentor a submissive was a bit like assigning the fox to guard the henhouse.

< Message edited by Gemeni -- 3/17/2005 9:12:55 AM >

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 18

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/17/2005 10:10:05 AM

MidnightWriter

Posts: 131
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightWriter

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
I think the purpose of mentoring should always be the further independence and confidence of the mentee.

If you'll agree to swap the word "independence" for "self-reliance", then we'll be in total agreement. If this is to train someone in a style of relationship, and (to me, anyway) relationship implies interdependence, then I'm not sure that independence is a concept that fits.

I believe that being independant and interdependant are not mutually exclusive. I think however they clash with co-dependant.

You've got a point, LadyAngelika - though I've never heard a clear definition of "co-dependent". Yes, one can become interdependent and retain independence, and I like that thought.

MoonLotus - I prefer to keep romantic involvement out of my mentor relationships, and my orgasms aren't what it's about, but it strikes me as odd when one is mentored without at least some classroom-level discussion of sexual issues - after all, this is kinky sex.

Gemeni - your 'fox guarding the henhouse' simile would be more relevant if someone wanted the submissives to be kept away from all dominants, wouldn't it?

_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 19

RE: Mentoring a submissive - 3/17/2005 10:17:11 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

Not at all Midnight. After all,mentoring is supposed to help one become better.

But how many women really NEED to be taught how to have sex better?

I guess I just laugh at all of these "trainers' who seem to use it as an excuse to play with no commitment.

I have no problem with teaching.

What I do have a problem with,is using teaching for supposedly altruistic purposes,when that is not the real intent of the instructor.

(in reply to MidnightWriter)

Post #: 20

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