RE: Mentoring a submissive (Full Version)

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MidnightWriter -> RE: Mentoring a submissive (3/17/2005 10:47:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

Not at all Midnight. After all,mentoring is supposed to help one become better.

But how many women really NEED to be taught how to have sex better?

Um... almost all of 'em. Almost all of the men, as well. Hell, I've been studying this for a tad over 30 years now, and I could learn to live with some improvement.

quote:

I guess I just laugh at all of these "trainers' who seem to use it as an excuse to play with no commitment.

Yup - "you will now learn to take it doggie-style" isn't exactly training. One would hope that anyone intelligent enough to be doing this at all would recognize that.

I'll cut some slack for a trainer who accepts sexual services in lieu of tuition, if they're very up-front about that from the beginning - not my kink, but not something I'd consider dishonorable.

quote:

I have no problem with teaching.

What I do have a problem with,is using teaching for supposedly altruistic purposes,when that is not the real intent of the instructor.

Altruistic? Bah! The instructor/teacher/mentor always has a payoff. Sometimes it's an opportunity to play, sometimes it's sex, sometimes it's for community standing, sometimes to get the first hack at the new sub. Me, I just enjoy the training process - so put me down for that first payoff.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Mentoring a submissive (3/17/2005 7:27:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightWriter
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I believe that being independant and interdependant are not mutually exclusive. I think however they clash with co-dependant.

You've got a point, LadyAngelika - though I've never heard a clear definition of "co-dependent". Yes, one can become interdependent and retain independence, and I like that thought.


What is codependency? What's the definition?

There are many definitions used to talk about codependency today. The original concept of codependency was developed to acknowledge the responses and behaviors people develop from living with an alcoholic or substance abuser. A number of attributes can be developed as a result of those conditions.

However, over the years, codependency has expanded into a definition which describes a dysfunctional pattern of living and problem solving developed during childhood by family rules.

One of many definitions of codependency is: a set of *maladaptive, *compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing *great emotional pain and stress.

*maladaptive - inability for a person to develop behaviors which get needs met.

*compulsive - psychological state where a person acts against their own will or conscious desires in which to behave.

*sources of great emotional pain and stress - chemical dependency; chronic mental illness; chronic physical illness; physical abuse; sexual abuse; emotional abuse; divorce; hypercritical or non-loving environment.

As adults, codependent people have a greater tendency to get involved in relationships with people who are perhaps unreliable, emotionally unavailable, or needy. And the codependent person tries to provide and control everything within the relationship without addressing their own needs or desires; setting themselves up for continued unfulfillment.

Even when a codependent person encounters someone with healthy boundaries, the codependent person still operates in their own system; they’re not likely to get too involved with people who have healthy boundaries. This of course creates problems that continue to recycle; if codependent people can’t get involved with people who have healthy behaviors and coping skills, then the problems continue into each new relationship.

Source: http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/codependency.htm
__________________________________


Codepency is something I see running rampant in vanilla and non-vanilla relationships alike. I personally cannot handle a relationship where there is codependency, more precisely if my partner is copendent on me. It strangles and suffocates me.

Then again, if 2 people are wonderfully happy living codependently with one another, who am I to judge their success (I mean that sincerely).

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: Mentoring a submissive (3/17/2005 7:35:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightWriter
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
But how many women really NEED to be taught how to have sex better?

Um... almost all of 'em. Almost all of the men, as well. Hell, I've been studying this for a tad over 30 years now, and I could learn to live with some improvement.


I think it's about discovering our own sexuality. I've had amazing partners who've helped me do this. Techniques are cool but you learn with time that everyone is different and what works for one won't for another. It's about learning to harness our own sexual power, to use our intuition with lovers, learning to read body language, responses, understanding how to tease, how to take one's time and yet keep the other's interest... how to keep them on that edge...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
quote:

I guess I just laugh at all of these "trainers' who seem to use it as an excuse to play with no commitment.

Yup - "you will now learn to take it doggie-style" isn't exactly training. One would hope that anyone intelligent enough to be doing this at all would recognize that.

I'll cut some slack for a trainer who accepts sexual services in lieu of tuition, if they're very up-front about that from the beginning - not my kink, but not something I'd consider dishonorable.


I think if both parties agree that some sex as part of the training is cool, then who is anyone to judge. Of course there will be some predator Dom/me mentors. That's unavoidable. I tend to think that if a submissive looks like they could fall deep for me, I would hold off sex as to not lead them down the wrong path and manage expectations. I am an ethical slut after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
quote:

I have no problem with teaching.

What I do have a problem with,is using teaching for supposedly altruistic purposes,when that is not the real intent of the instructor.

Altruistic? Bah! The instructor/teacher/mentor always has a payoff. Sometimes it's an opportunity to play, sometimes it's sex, sometimes it's for community standing, sometimes to get the first hack at the new sub. Me, I just enjoy the training process - so put me down for that first payoff.


Considering that I'm an educator, my first payoff is that this is my vocation and it fulfils me deeply.

- LA



MidnightWriter -> RE: Mentoring a submissive (3/18/2005 7:47:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightWriter
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
But how many women really NEED to be taught how to have sex better?

Um... almost all of 'em. Almost all of the men, as well. Hell, I've been studying this for a tad over 30 years now, and I could learn to live with some improvement.


I think it's about discovering our own sexuality. I've had amazing partners who've helped me do this. Techniques are cool but you learn with time that everyone is different and what works for one won't for another. It's about learning to harness our own sexual power, to use our intuition with lovers, learning to read body language, responses, understanding how to tease, how to take one's time and yet keep the other's interest... how to keep them on that edge...

That is, of course, a part of it - and for quite a few dominants, that's what they'll want. However, techniques do have thier place, as does training in mindset if so desired. There is a distinct difference between lovers making love and lovers having sex; likewise, there's a difference between egalitarian lovers having sex and an owner/dom using their property/sub sexually.

They are all, of course, good - but us perverts have a wider selection on our menus. [:D]

For the dom - have you ever had a professional massage? Okay, how about a massage from an untrained lover? Perhaps a massage from an untrained submissive? (I'm using the term "untrained" here to denote people who have not been formally trained in massage.)

There is sex with an enthusiastic lover, sex with a skilled and motivated sex worker, and sex with a submissive. Sex with a submissive who loves you, is determined to give pleasure and considers thier own sexual release secondary, and has been trained in a variety of techniques is... well, extraordinary. Certainly not something I'd want on a consistent basis, but very satisfying when the mood is upon you.

For the subs - there's making love to one's dom, there's having sex with one's dom, and there's using oneself to sexually please your dom as an expression of your submission - all are different, all are good.

Besides, every once in a while, you get to turn the dom into a puddle of bliss, as they so often do to you - and turning the tables in this fashion has its own appeal.

Of course, this is not for everyone - but then, damn few things are.

(Aside to LadyAngelika - yup - that's the type of definition I've seen before - a listing of judgements about behaviors, without any mention of the behaviors themselves. Anywhere else in the DSM, a psychological condition will have a list of associated behaviors, but not codependency. When asking professionals for a list of behaviors, what I get in response frustrates *them* - because they're indistinguishable from identical, healthy behaviors. It seems to be an intuitive type of diagnosis - "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". Not, IMO, appropriate or useful in a field that's supposed to be a science. I'd be happy to discuss this further, but don't want to hijack this thread more than I already have - perhaps the Lounge?)



mantis65 -> RE: Mentoring a submissive (3/23/2005 2:13:43 PM)

quote:

For models of d/s relationships, we mostly have bad porn, good (but unrealistic) porn, less-than-sympathetic portrayals in the media, public events in which the collared subs are (hopefully) on their best behavior, and message boards such as this - where, to be frank, anyone can be spouting fiction but presenting it as fact.


This can be a problem there are so many things that are just pure fantasy or unrealistic that sound good in porn.
Maybe that why some subs fail in their Roles because what they expect from their relationship with a Dom/me is based on ideas they gathered from porn?



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