In case something were to happen...

In case something were to happen... (Full Version)

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Anachronox -> In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 1:46:29 AM)
I was wondering if anyone else has thought of keeping some sort of documentation around in case something serious were to happen during bondage or other play. I could think of a ton of things that might happen, and of course just as many safety precautions and such of how these things should be prevented or prepared for. But all that notwithstanding, if there was some sort of accident that were to occur, i.e. medical emergency, fire, or any other number of things that might happen, does anyone have some sort of note they keep somewhere for their partners on the chance that they are somehow unable to communicate if authorties get involved. I wouldnt think of something like this for simple play occasions, but more for a trusted partner in a LTR, stating that you are involved in a relationship so your spouse isnt trying to explain to someone that it really was ok to tie you down. I'm not sure, I can see a good and bad side to this, and am just looking for others imput into this.

1wildwolf -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 2:39:40 AM)
I can't say I have ever thought about it, but it sounds a reasonable thing to do. Though I guess that unless one was in a long term relationship that few people knew about, most people would know that you were happy with your partner or vice versa and that anything done would be consensual. Also if one is involved in the bdsm community then there are always witnesses who might know what one or one's partner were into. Then again the old adage 'better safe than sorry' can always apply.

bandit25 -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 4:41:29 AM)
Yes all sorts of things can happen, but they can happen just walking out the door also. Nope and prolly won't.

mnottertail -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 4:48:35 AM)
Lets say I got you tied up to the ceiling, and I got some documentation from you about what a sport I am in my pocket, I pass out from coming, tip over the blowtorch, awaken groggily and seeing the house is on fire shoot out the door.... Sometime later the fire chief says to the police commisioner, buddy, you better have a look at this............ Still later the DA decides to have a little visit with me to see 'what up?' and I retrieve the papers from my pocket, hand them to the DA, blubbering like a fool and saying 'She died doing what she loved....' . You mean something like that? Ron

Aileen68 -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 4:53:50 AM)
Reminds me of that urban legend where the wife is handcuffed naked to the bed and dear old hubby is dressed up as Spiderman atop the dresser. He leaps, hits the noggin on the ceiling fan and gets knocked out. She has to scream for help...all naked and cuffed. The only problem is...Spiderman has no pockets. Where would he put a note?

onestandingstill -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 4:56:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anachronox I was wondering if anyone else has thought of keeping some sort of documentation around in case something serious were to happen during bondage or other play. I could think of a ton of things that might happen, and of course just as many safety precautions and such of how these things should be prevented or prepared for. But all that notwithstanding, if there was some sort of accident that were to occur, i.e. medical emergency, fire, or any other number of things that might happen, does anyone have some sort of note they keep somewhere for their partners on the chance that they are somehow unable to communicate if authorties get involved. I wouldnt think of something like this for simple play occasions, but more for a trusted partner in a LTR, stating that you are involved in a relationship so your spouse isnt trying to explain to someone that it really was ok to tie you down. I'm not sure, I can see a good and bad side to this, and am just looking for others imput into this. All the documentation I need is right here in my ole trusty computer. My Sir knows my passwords. I think it's showing I have history in the life in several web sites I've been in over a year. suzanne.

MadRabbit -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 5:09:57 AM)
Perhaps I should carry a life preserver in my backpack in case the entire city of Charleston floods. It could happen...its possible.... I should carry anti venom in case the killer bees come up from Mexico. I should wear gloves and a mask everyday when I open my mail in case someone sends me anthrax. The problem with the whole "safety" thing in the BDSM world (and in America in general) is all these people make these websites listing all these things that could possibly happen, but they dont ever explain the probability that it will happen. So new people go and read all these websites and end up thinking that they are going to whack someone on the ass with a crop and the person is just going to keel over and die. Yes, I firmly beleive in educating yourself as much as you can about a toy and what could possibly happen before ever picking it up. Yes, I firmly beleive you should consider all the angles before doing a scene and make sure you have precautions in place for things that are likely possibilities. But to try and compensate for every possible risk factor one can come up with.... Your better off just not playing at all then.

nyrisa -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 5:37:08 AM)
Errrr........Ron......WHAT was the blow torch for in the first place? A marshmallow toast, right? Seriously, those "he/she died doing what she loved" statements always get me, on TV shows, because if you think of it, they did not die doing what they LOVED. They perhaps LOVED climbing mountains, but I am pretty sure they HATED slamming into rocks at 150 miles per hour. I am sure plenty of folks love skydiving, when the parachute deploys properly, but relatively few enjoy being spread in a fine pink gel over an acre of land.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 5:52:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 Reminds me of that urban legend where the wife is handcuffed naked to the bed and dear old hubby is dressed up as Spiderman atop the dresser. He leaps, hits the noggin on the ceiling fan and gets knocked out. She has to scream for help...all naked and cuffed. The only problem is...Spiderman has no pockets. Where would he put a note? [sm=wave.gif] Oh oh oh!! Me me me!! I know this one! In his shoe! [sm=mrpuffy.gif]

julietsierra -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 5:58:27 AM)
In the state of Michigan, there was a case many years ago (yes, I heard about it, so I don't have the documentation) involving someone who did exactly what you've stated. The "victim" (put in quotations so as not to presume that I really perceive that person as a victim) didn't die and instead went to court to maintain that it was indeed her choice to be in that position. The reaction from the judge was that no person in their right mind would agree to something like this and her defense of the accused was negated - however, her statement that they were doing what he was being accused of did stand and I believe (but could be wrong) was used against him. So, I'd say that written documentation or oral documentation used as a defense would be moot - at least here in this state. Couple that with the laws on torture that have been enacted here, the domestic abuse laws and we're pretty much screwed. Pretty much, we (meaning my Master and myself) rely on my being able to effectively communicate our activities with the people that generally would report such activities as abuse - physicians, etc. Despite my reluctance to do so (I live in a small town) I make sure I tell EVERYONE that is legally obligated to report suspected abuse about what we do LONG before I might ever have to see them regarding something we've done. I see no sense in forcing them to choose to violate the law by just presuming things are ok or to wreck my life by presuming they aren't. I also make sure that it's documented in my medical records that I am involved in bdsm - no mincing around on the words, cause I need for them to KNOW I mean bdsm, not just presume we engage in rough sex. First responders such as police and paramedics are really just a crap shoot - as is any prosecuting attorney and the given political climate at the moment. And beyond that, we just have to be damned careful. But notes and letters and verbal statements - at least here in Michigan, do not stand up in a court of law. The only recourse we have is to pretty much prevent it coming to the attention of legal authorities in the first place. juliet

nyrisa -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 6:16:35 AM)
I can see that many are looking at this as documentation to show to the authorities that the activity was consensual, etc. But it would also be good to look at this as a list of instructions to have handy in case you are not able to communicate effectively, either through unconsciousness, or in the anxiety/stress of the moment. For instance, if you are scening with a friend, you may be comfortable in knowing his/her play related wishes, and you may know his/her medical situation, but you may not remember which hospital he would like to be taken to, what his medications are, and that he has an Epi Pen in his toy bag in case he gets stung by an ant. It is not always the bottom who might develop medical emergencies, by any means, and most pre-scene information exchanged seems to regard the bottom. It would be good to know that, in case of emergency, there is a red envelope in the bag that would allow me to give paramedics information that could be life saving, or at the very least, might make his care faster and more effective. If anyone ever needs to take me to the emergency room, for instance, they will need to tell them not to use latex gloves, and don't allow latex gloves to be brought into the room, because the powder particles drift into the air and cause a serious allergic reaction, which might be more life threatening than the original emergency that brought me there.

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 7:14:18 AM)
I think the idea of the sub drafting the letter you mentioned could be a good assignment for their personal growth. I think it would be even better if they had to explain in detail what they like, want, and why. As far as the idea of the what if scenarios... In my humble opinion, I believe that it is the Doms duty to be prepared for any situation that may occur within his domain. We often talk of medical emergencies and fires. He/She should be absolutely prepared to handle these. That means having a plan and any necessary training before hand....such as basic CPR. To keep this post simple, I think this breaks down to simple household saftey. As far as bondage specifics, quick releases should be used and emergency equipment should be in the room (i.e. EMT scissors, boltcutters, first aid kit, medications, etc). I think 30-60 seconds release time should be the threshold. Anything more than this is recklace and unnecessary. We often hear the urban legends about the incapacitated Dom. I think these are good examples as to why the sub also needs to know how to escape and properly react. Once again, that responsibility rests squarely on the Doms shoulders to adequately train and practice safety with the sub. I can't think of any situation that may occur that is not preventable or at least can't be minimized. The only thing I can think of would be like a traffic helicopter crashing into your house or something other outside interruption...a meteor perhaps. So the way I see it is, if the event/scene is in my perview, my house or whatever, I should be in control. My point is, not being prepared is negligent and I think the Dom should be held accountable. I would hope an irresponsible Dom/Domme would not escape prosecution because of a permission slip. I also think that if you are going to accept the power and control of another living being, you should be aware of the responsibility you are undertaking and not cheapen human life by taking it lightly. You should be willing to accept any consequences that come of your actions. No one (who knew what they were talking about) ever said it was easy being Dom. Wow....now that I'm rereading this, I see that I need to drink some more coffee or something. Sorry if I came across harshly, but safety is very important to me. OK....I'm going to go play with some matches and run with some scissors for a bit.

Aileen68 -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 7:18:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 Reminds me of that urban legend where the wife is handcuffed naked to the bed and dear old hubby is dressed up as Spiderman atop the dresser. He leaps, hits the noggin on the ceiling fan and gets knocked out. She has to scream for help...all naked and cuffed. The only problem is...Spiderman has no pockets. Where would he put a note? [sm=wave.gif] Oh oh oh!! Me me me!! I know this one! In his shoe! [sm=mrpuffy.gif] Nooo silly. In his Spidey fanny pack.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 7:25:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 quote: ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 Reminds me of that urban legend where the wife is handcuffed naked to the bed and dear old hubby is dressed up as Spiderman atop the dresser. He leaps, hits the noggin on the ceiling fan and gets knocked out. She has to scream for help...all naked and cuffed. The only problem is...Spiderman has no pockets. Where would he put a note? [sm=wave.gif] Oh oh oh!! Me me me!! I know this one! In his shoe! [sm=mrpuffy.gif] Nooo silly. In his Spidey fanny pack. Darn it, I thought I knew one. [sm=river.gif] sniff sniff

SirDominic -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 7:55:13 AM)
Knowing as much about the law as I do (practically nil), I can only make basic assumptions. As far as I know, there is little actual case law regarding whether a contractual agreement between two consenting adults is viable or not. I certainly haven't heard of many, if any. That being the case, it really comes down to a crap shoot. If the worst case scenario should happen to you, whether you had a written agreement or not may help you keep out of trouble, or it may not. Depends on the relative morals of where you live (I think California would be more likely to accept it than Alabama). Also the mindset of the cops who deal with the scene, the DA and the judge. Given that you cannot know in advance how the verdict on a written agreement will fall, it comes down to personal choice whether you prefer to have one or not. Personally, I do have one with my slave. My thinking being that such an agreement may or may not be accepted, but no written agreement at all leaves you completely hanging in the wind. Something else no-one has brought up yet, what if the slave/sub thought you were negligent, and decides to go after you through the courts. I think it unlikely that any written agreement would be of much help in this scenario; just because they agreed to it, doesn't mean you can't be sued for neglect. Bottom line, I agree with DXP, it is the Dom's responsibility to be prepared for any conceivable emergency, as much as humanly possible. Morally, the sub has an equal responsibility to be safe, but legally it is the actionable party (the Dom) that will be held responsible. Namaste, Sir Dominic

Devilslilsister -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 7:56:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 Reminds me of that urban legend where the wife is handcuffed naked to the bed and dear old hubby is dressed up as Spiderman atop the dresser. He leaps, hits the noggin on the ceiling fan and gets knocked out. She has to scream for help...all naked and cuffed. The only problem is...Spiderman has no pockets. Where would he put a note? Reminds me of the Stephen King book - Gerald's Game

azzmaster -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 10:02:37 AM)
it would be a good idea if u do alot of real edgy stuff. da shit i m n2 isn't going to result in the person bein unconscious so i wouldn't bother. i would say tho if u do nooseplay n stuff u should know CPR. don't play beyond ur knowledge

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 10:56:12 AM)
The problem I would have is that if someone did something to me non-consensually and I tried to get legal consequences paid for that. Otherwise, it's not something I worry at all about.

proudsub -> RE: In case something were to happen... (2/18/2007 12:05:52 PM)
This is why i always make sure i can escape.[:o]

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