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honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 9:55:11 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		Lately, I've seen a pattern with male subs performing bisexual acts, yet listing themselves as straight on their profiles (and I'm sure some female subs do the same thing). Their excuse......they were "forced" to by a mistress. How can this be since BDSM is consentual? I don't think bisexuals are inferior to me in any way (I have bisexual friends). The thing is,  I'm straight and I don't want to be more than friends with a man who has ever engaged in a bisexual act. I married a man who lied about his sexual orientation and the thought of becoming involved with another closet bisexual is flat out scary for me. Considering the pattern I am seeing, I'll bet it has happened to many others as well. Shouldn't people be honest on their profiles so potential partners are aware of their sexual orientation before becoming involved?  
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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 9:58:23 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		perhaps they are indicating that they have no desire for sexual activity with men but were "forced" as part of their service - not nonconsensually, but as a way to please their mistress, even though it's not something they would have chosen for themselves. just because a man does something sexual with another man doesn't automatically make him bisexual.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:02:56 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Forced bi is not nonconsentual, it is simply not something they would have done had the mistress not been commanding the situation. I see it somewhat differently for someone who goes out and seeks partners of both sex for themselves, and those that only involve themself with the same sex in order to make a partner happy.  Women do it all the time, why should we expect men not to involve themselves similarly?  There are many women who have no interest in other women, but have had a bisexual encounter to fulfill a partners fantasy.

It is perfectly honest to list yourself as straight if you are stright when seeking your own partners.  These men would not go loking for a boyfriend for themselves, but they are wiling to deal with entertaining a man for their Mistresses. 

How much different is this problem, say, than that of the girls who list themsleves as bisexual to get attention from men who find it more attractive, even though they have no actual interest in ever being with another woman?


DV

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:03:28 PM   
FukinTroll


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How far would you push your submission?

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:05:15 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Whether he performs the act for his mistress or not, he is bisexual. For a straight sub, this would be a hard limit. I'm a switch so I sub sometimes. Because I'm straight, anything bisexual is a hard limit..

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:05:54 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
How much different is this problem, say, than that of the girls who list themsleves as bisexual to get attention from men who find it more attractive, even though they have no actual interest in ever being with another woman?


-amen.- thank you for posting that. :)

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:08:18 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Whether he performs the act for his mistress or not, he is bisexual. For a straight sub, this would be a hard limit. I'm a switch so I sub sometimes. Because I'm straight, anything bisexual is a hard limit..


erm, that's by your definition. according to a lot of people, that's bullshit. that would be like saying allowing myself to be sexually used by a mistress automatically makes me bisexual, and were i straight (which i'm not) it wouldn't. it seems to me that you simply have a lot of deep-seated fears based on what you've been through, and while there's nothing wrong with that, i think it's kind of presumptuous for you to project those fears onto other people, especially when your definition of it is likely far different from most. (i'd be curious to see how many people on this board agree wholeheartedly with you.)

eta: what about slaves, or submissives whose limits are only defined by those of their owner? i don't really -have- hard limits - at least any that aren't His - i imagine that's true of many male submissives as well. where does the limit factor come into play there, by your definition?


< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 2/18/2007 10:09:50 PM >

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:09:38 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
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Status: offline 		Women who perform sexual acts to please their Master are also bisexual or it would be a hard limit for them too.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:10:17 PM   
hisannabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Women who perform sexual acts to please their Master are also bisexual or it would be a hard limit for them too.


and for people who don't have hard limits? are they then automatically bisexual because they -would- perform sexual acts with someone of the same sex if it were asked of them, even if they would never seek out a same sex relationship and it would never be asked of them?

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:13:33 PM   
FukinTroll


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From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Whether he performs the act for his mistress or not, he is bisexual. For a straight sub, this would be a hard limit. I'm a switch so I sub sometimes. Because I'm straight, anything bisexual is a hard limit..


Wow there is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin...............

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:15:49 PM   
marieToo


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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lately, I've seen a pattern with male subs performing bisexual acts, yet listing themselves as straight on their profiles (and I'm sure some female subs do the same thing). Their excuse......they were "forced" to by a mistress. How can this be since BDSM is consentual? I don't think bisexuals are inferior to me in any way (I have bisexual friends). The thing is,  I'm straight and I don't want to be more than friends with a man who has ever engaged in a bisexual act. I married a man who lied about his sexual orientation and the thought of becoming involved with another closet bisexual is flat out scary for me. Considering the pattern I am seeing, I'll bet it has happened to many others as well. Shouldn't people be honest on their profiles so potential partners are aware of their sexual orientation before becoming involved?  


I think it boils down to one's definition of bisexuality. 
In my own estimation, a bisexual person is one who desires sex with both genders. 
If a women who is not bisexual in that she has no desire to have sexual intimacy with another female, but she does it because her master dictates it to her, this to me makes her simply obedient, not necessarily bisexual.

And of course this would apply to the male submissives obeying his mistress as well.  I just happened to use female bisexuality as the example.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 2/18/2007 10:17:32 PM >

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:15:56 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, they are. Otherwise even if they had no other hard limits, that would be the one hard limit they would have. I think I have a right to know if a man has ever been sexual with another man before becoming involved with him. I'm not saying bisexuality is any more or less wrong than being straight. All I'm saying is be honest about it.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:16:58 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I dont agree. Not everyone who is straight has bisexual acts as a hard limit.  For many, it is something they are willing to bend to make a partner hapy becasue their submission is deeper than their sexual preference.  When it is just sex, there doesnt necessarily have to be attraction.  Without attraction, there doesnt have to be sexuality.
People open to a 3some for the kink of it dont consider themselves poly, do they?

I DO agree that if it is that important to you, that someone should be open about their interactions with those of the same sex.  Whatever their reasons, if they ahve been involved, they should be open about it.  Especially since, obviously, relations with men who have been with other men is a hard limit for you.  I can completely respect that outlook, I have the same hangup for men who have been with prostitutes ever. It might be something you have to ask about, though, since not everyone shares your definition of sexuality.  It might be something you are going to have to specifically mention, and include forced acts.

DV

< Message edited by DiurnalVampire -- 2/18/2007 10:20:43 PM >

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:17:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Lately, I've seen a pattern with male subs performing bisexual acts, yet listing themselves as straight on their profiles (and I'm sure some female subs do the same thing). Their excuse......they were "forced" to by a mistress. How can this be since BDSM is consentual?


In my opinion they are straight. You see some of us take submission to mean that we submit to things even if we are not aroused by them (not to be confused with hard limits). I have given my Daddy the green light to have me engage in bisexual acts and I am not bisexual. He will probably never tell me to do it because he knows I am not completely comfortable with the idea and I would only be doing it for him, but it is not a limit in our relationship. So what does that make me defiantbadgirl? Am I bisexual for agreeing to it even though it may never happen? Does just the act of agreeing to do it as an act of my submission make me bi?

Now these guys that put straight on their profile and admit to a history of bisexual acts, I do not think they are lying to you. Why admit that they had done this if the intent was to deceive? That is completely irrational. Can you understand that not everyone views the world of sexuality as narrrowly as you do? Can you contemplate that people do things as an act of submission that do not arouse them?

I love to be whipped, I am a masochist. I love it when my Daddy does this, but I realize another person endures what I take pleasure in as a show of their submission to their dominant. That does not make them a masochist, it makes them a submissive willing to endure for their dominant. Can you understand that it is not the bisexual act that turns some of us on, it is the fact we would submit to it for the person we love and serve that is the thrill of it. It is the same as a person that dreads beatings but submits for the pleasure of their dom... and feels pride for having endured it.

I would never be so presumptuous as to say that people should submit to things that they do not like or they are not a twue submissive... I think that is horseshit... by the same token not acknowledging that this is a very real way of bonding for some people is horseshit too. For some people it feels deeper, more trusting and more bonded to at least agree to submit things that they never thought they would or could. It does not make their dynamic more than another.. it is the way that they relate to each other... and you talking about consent means very little to such couples.

You know, I am finally "getting" exactly what it means to say that I trust him to surrender these things and not worry on them. I consent everyday, and I would not leave something I treasure so much over being told to lick a pussy. My life would not end, I would not be damaged emotionally, although I very well might not become aroused.

I would not want to be with a man that had been bisexual either, but I certainly would not react like you do to it. I would not assume that they enjoyed it or that they wanted to do it because they decided that their Domina's desires were important enough to do it regardless.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 2/18/2007 10:18:55 PM >

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:19:18 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Yes, they are. Otherwise even if they had no other hard limits, that would be the one hard limit they would have. I think I have a right to know if a man has ever been sexual with another man before becoming involved with him. I'm not saying bisexuality is any more or less wrong than being straight. All I'm saying is be honest about it.


well, then you're going to have to accept that your definition is radically different from a good portion of the population. :) which means that, well, you're essentially banging your head against a wall here, because people are going to describe themselves by their own definitions, not yours.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:27:09 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		If a male sub put on his profile that he was straight, but also said on his profile that he would perform bisexual acts, that would be honest. Most say nothing of the sort unless specifically asked. If a woman wanted a man who had only been sexual with women and she didn't know that many sub males perform bisexual acts, she might not think to ask. When most people see the word straight, they think that means a man has never been with another man.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:30:12 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If a male sub put on his profile that he was straight, but also said on his profile that he would perform bisexual acts, that would be honest. Most say nothing of the sort unless specifically asked. If a woman wanted a man who had only been sexual with women and she didn't know that many sub males perform bisexual acts, she might not think to ask. When most people see the word straight, they think that means a man has never been with another man.


a lot of people don't divulge their sexual history, period, unless specifically asked. i fail to see how this is any different. at least they -do- say so when asked, instead of lying about it. also, as has already been mentioned, your last sentence kind of falls short in a bdsm setting where often submission overrules one's own desires (or lack thereof), and so to make presumptions about someone's sexual history based on their orientation can be an extremely misleading venture.

i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around this. it's like saying that even though i hate listening to country, if i do it because my dominant enjoys it, that automatically makes me a country fan.


< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 2/18/2007 10:31:21 PM >

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:31:51 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Yes, they are. Otherwise even if they had no other hard limits, that would be the one hard limit they would have. I think I have a right to know if a man has ever been sexual with another man before becoming involved with him. I'm not saying bisexuality is any more or less wrong than being straight. All I'm saying is be honest about it.


well, then you're going to have to accept that your definition is radically different from a good portion of the population. :) which means that, well, you're essentially banging your head against a wall here, because people are going to describe themselves by their own definitions, not yours.



Radically different than the majority of the population? I think not. I'm 33 years old and most of the people I know and have known in the past define bisexual as one who performs sexual acts with both genders.

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:35:23 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		that's pretty interesting, considering that

quote:

exual orientation –noun one's natural preference in sexual partners; predilection for homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality.
[Origin: 1990–95] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source sexual orientation  
n.   The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition - Cite This Source
sexual orientation

Preference for sexual activity with people of the opposite sex, the same sex, or both. (See bisexuality, heterosexuality, and homosexuality.)
[Chapter:] Anthropology, Psychology, and Sociology


The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source Main Entry: sexual orientation
Function: noun
: the inclination of an individual with respect to heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual behavior Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source sexual orientation
n. The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes, especially a direction seen to be dictated by physiologic rather than sociologic forces. Replaces sexual preference in most contemporary uses. The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


i fail to see any mention of actual -acts-, just inclinations towards acts. if someone's never inclined to  bisexuality unless it's part of their submission, that does not fit the -definition- of bisexuality. ask people who study sexual orientation, gender, and the like for a living, and i very much doubt you'll hear that anyone who's ever had a bisexual encounter is bisexual. after all, a lot of straight people experiment, especially when they're younger, and that doesn't necessarily make them bisexual. i'm just hazarding a guess that perhaps 80% or so of this forum would disagree with you. i may be wrong, but i seriously doubt it.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 2/18/2007 10:37:10 PM >

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RE: honesty about sexual orientation - 2/18/2007 10:36:47 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If a male sub put on his profile that he was straight, but also said on his profile that he would perform bisexual acts, that would be honest. Most say nothing of the sort unless specifically asked.


Why should he tell everyone in the world every sexual act he has ever done or would do? Do you? I took a gander at your profile, it is not extensive in listing hard limits and experiences. It seems a little hypocritical you expect so much of others that you do not deliver yourself.

It is none of your business what another human being as done sexually unless they choose to become involved with you.

quote:

If a woman wanted a man who had only been sexual with women and she didn't know that many sub males perform bisexual acts, she might not think to ask.


It is not his responsiblity to think of the answers to questions that you have failed to ask on your own. He is not a freaking mind reader, he does not know every piece of information that may be important to you... people should take responsibility for what THEY need to know and not blaming others for their own failure to ask.

quote:

When most people see the word straight, they think that means a man has never been with another man.


This is not the vanilla dating world, nothing can be assumed here, at least nothing should be.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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