Kissing question, kind've. (Full Version)

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wyldsubmissive -> Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:14:42 AM)

My Mentor and I were on the phone last night and I brought up a few things that were irking me. The main point of this post however centers around why she had'nt kissed me yet. I've been with her for three weekends already, and we're good friends along with our D/s realtionship.

Her response was that she honestly didn't know why she never did it. Which mad me scratch my head a wee bit. After conversing with a dom friend of mine he told me her response annoyed him. The reason being that a female dominant with as much as experience as she has (roughly 15-ish years, she's 34.) should be more self aware.

So, my question: do you think dominants should really be that self aware that every action they take into consideration is um, filtered through their dom processors first?



mp072004 -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:22:46 AM)

I don't entirely understand your question. Do I think people, including dominants, would do better if they were more conscious of their actions? Yes. Although, I'd lose a sizeable bit of advantage in many spheres if everyone was really self-aware, so self-interest says no. It is good to consciously act. This means that you know what you're doing, and that you have reasons for doing it, NOT necessarily that you avoid hurting people with your actions. You just generally know you're doing what you're doing. It can, by the way, be effective to project that you're not thinking very hard when in reality, you are--the "effortless prose" that takes hours and hours of agonized writing.

But what is "to filter through one's dom processors?"

Monica



slaveish -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:25:00 AM)

Your dom friend dissed your Domme ... hmm. ~chuckle~ Ahh, never mind that - it's a whole new thread's worth of material.

Could it not be that she is completely aware of herself and has a reason to not kiss you and to not tell you why?



juliaoceania -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:25:43 AM)

I think human beings need time to think about why they do the things that they do. I do not think that being dominant makes someone a superhuman aware of every action that they do. Now the more self aware a dominant is, the better... but I think that the more self aware a person is the better.

It may not be something she thought about before, and she may need time to think about why she did not initiate a kiss with you. Perhaps she has never had to be the one to initiate kisses or something.. but I would respect a dominant that needed to have introspection to answer me instead od throwing out some glib answer that they put no thought into so they could seem "self aware" when they actually weren't.

My Daddy takes his time expressing himself with me, and I appreciate that more and more all the time. It is teaching me to be more self aware to think about what I say before I say it as his submissive (he demands I slow down and think about things sometimes). My opinion is that it is more dominant to think about the real reason than to toss an excuse out.



bellanotte -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:27:08 AM)

I don't think it's a question of "every" action they take. However, this Domme is your Mentor. I am not sure how you two define the Mentoring relationship; however, I know that with my Protector (Dom) and mentor (sub), that the relationship's whole point is primarily that of guidance in things D/s and BDSM. Thus, in a question of such importance as your relationship to each other, and certainly to you, (with your wanting to kiss her, presumably, and her either presumably not thinking of it, or of somehow dismissing the thought), one would think that she would have examined her answer before giving it.

Have you shared with her what your Dom friend has said about her answer? Part of the Mentor relationship for me as well is the practice of learning not to keep so many things to myself... especially about my feelings about any interactions between myself and them. I would be interested in what she had to say about your friend's remarks.



toservez -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:27:33 AM)

Any good relationship of any type requires people to be themselves naturally.

Dominants are ordinary people and cannot be held to a higher standard of human actions and reactions. Your example is a good one for this. She may not have kissed you because, she is not big into kissing, since it is a “mentor” situation she did not want to confuse the situation whether consciously or subconsciously or she just did not want to kiss you. The fact that she had not kissed you by no means makes her less of a quality dominant. Just means she had not kissed you yet.

The solution you had was perfect, you asked her and now both of you can be on the same page.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:30:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldsubmissive
So, my question: do you think dominants should really be that self aware that every action they take into consideration is um, filtered through their dom processors first?

No.

There are cases where we simply don't KNOW why we have the feelings and reactions we do.  Not knowing why you haven't had the urge to kiss someone is REALLY low IMO on the "self-awareness" scale.

Not knowing why you quit your job this morning however, would be something to be concerned over.  Pick your battles.  And you've got quite a few bugs rustling in your ears which might be working against eachother.

Frankly, I'm surprised you think kissing is part of a mentor relationship de facto- what makes you think that?



bellanotte -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:32:54 AM)

julia,

I agree. The answer of her not knowing was not necessarily an "un"-self-aware thing in my eyes; if it was followed up with some thought and a reflective answer at a later point. That would be immensely better than a quick, flip, answer which may or may not have been accuratelly in-depth.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:37:23 AM)

How many people here have 10 or 20 years experience cooking?  How many are great chefs?

Experience does not equal talent and perfection doesn't exist.

That said, introspection and self awareness are important skills but who's perfect?  If all you do is introspection and work on your self awareness you are going to be paralyzed into inaction.

That said, I would be more curious if this woman's pattern is around kissing her partners.  For me, I don't tend to want to kiss women I only play with, to me it is only something I do with an intimate lover. 

Its never the act, always the motivation that matters. 



mp072004 -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:39:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Frankly, I'm surprised you think kissing is part of a mentor relationship de facto- what makes you think that?


Agreed. Or a natural part of a d/s relationship, or scene, for that matter. Kissing on the lips a somewhat sexual or romantic intimacy that just isn't appropriate to my way of approaching most BDSM interactions.

Monica



wyldsubmissive -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:42:10 AM)

"But what is "to filter through one's dom processors?"

Monica

Monica,

"To filter through ones dom processors" is a silly computer joke. Kind've.

To explain better think of a person weighing every word, every action and every thought before they do it. That's what I mean. To filter it through their brain to see how it would act/react to their sub/slave/whatever they've got.

"Could it not be that she is completely aware of herself and has a reason to not kiss you and to not tell you why?"

Frankly it could be any numbers of things. I'm not a mind reader (some days I thank the Universe for this) and neither is m'Lady. But her exact answer to why she didn't is: "I've never thought about it." M'lady is a very blunt and honest person who doesn't do bush beating. George or otherwise. (Political joke! Ha. ............ 'Kay maybe not.)

Have you shared with her what your Dom friend has said about her answer?

I haven't no. There's a bit of a backstory to it, which I 'll briefly explain here. The dom friend is my former dom, who I have a close relationship with. He gives good perspective and advice, although sometimes its skewed towards himself. (Which I do call him on.) And I don't rely completely on said perspective, merely use it as a tool to figure out my own thoughts/feelings/opinions. He's a sounding board if you will. And m'Ladys "fur" is rubbed the wrong way by him. *nose wrinkle* But because she is a Mentor to me, and not MY dominant she allows my frienship with him.

Although the word 'allow' in that last sentence would speak otherwise as to her claim on me.

I am not sure how you two define the Mentoring relationship

We are sexually attracted to each other, I submit to her as a female (I don't sub to men very easily.) and she acts as a Domme in certain situations. She's attempting to teach me both sides of the coin, because she is slave to one man and Domme to all others (male or female). The reason behind the dual teaching is that I have both tendencies and both are balanced. *shrug*

Thanks for all the replies. I do hope this sparks an interesting debate, I'd like to see what many more people think on the bolded question, not just the situation I found myself in.






SimplyMichael -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:43:05 AM)

Sounds like kissing isn't for you but I would NEVER have a primary D/s partner who I didn't ache to kiss.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:44:07 AM)

Thanks for the clarification.  It's completely normal and reasonable to have not thought about something like that before, specially when it's only been a few weeks.




wyldsubmissive -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:45:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Frankly, I'm surprised you think kissing is part of a mentor relationship de facto- what makes you think that?


*blinks twice* Really? Um. *thinks quietly to herself* Because I've always viewed any BDSM/lifestyle partner as being a romantic one also and I have not seperated that in my mind. And I've agreed to give her sole control of my sexual interactions which she's happily marked as hers. To me kissing is one part of that interaction.

*head tilt* Make sense?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:50:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldsubmissive
*blinks twice* Really? Um. *thinks quietly to herself* Because I've always viewed any BDSM/lifestyle partner as being a romantic one also and I have not seperated that in my mind. And I've agreed to give her sole control of my sexual interactions which she's happily marked as hers. To me kissing is one part of that interaction.

*head tilt* Make sense?


Yes, but the majority view of a "mentor" relationship is that it's not sexual or intimate or even involving any authority transfer at all.  So, if you keep using the word mentor you'll have to keep clarifying that point.  Even just saying dom/mentor would likely be enough to avoid the confusion.



AAkasha -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:55:06 AM)

If it is a "mentor" relationship, are both parties clear on what that means?  What comes to mind for me is that it might be similar to a pro-femdom relationship, where you might have all kinds of sexuality and sexually charged BDSM but generally no kissing.

Here's another question: Are you two romantically linked?  Falling in love? That kind of thing?  Or do you feel one way toward her and she doesn't feel the same toward you?

The other thing could be she just isn't into kissing anyone.

BTW I agree with the poster that got "irked" that you shared this info with another dominant and went into action based on him being annoyed; people that share dirty laundry with other kinky people to try to clarify their feelings instead of going straight to the source get canned in every instance if it's my relationship.

Akasha



bellanotte -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 9:57:35 AM)

Not to pick a point, wyldsub, but, well.... to pick a point [8|] ...... In your first post you said your Mentor had no idea why she hadn't kissed you " Her response was that she honestly didn't know why she never did it." (sorry, don't know how to use the quoting thing  *blushes*).... Your last response was "But her exact answer to why she didn't is: "I've never thought about it."
To me .... those are to very different answers. Not having thought about something before doesn't mean that, if I took a moment to think about it, I couldn't figure it out. I think this goes back here to what julia and Michael were saying about self-awareness. One can't be self-aware 100% of the time, yet it is best to be honest about that as well. If you ask her if she could give you an answer a little later on, she might well be able to do so.

The question I suspect will keep the "debate" going, if there is one, is that of the nature of the mentor relationship itself... I was taught that a mentoring relationship is primarily one of guidance in one's journey through exploring the D/s and BDSM worlds, and of being there to offer information, teach, and answer questions. Some believe sexual interactions between mentor and mentoree are allowable, some that they are taboo; I think on this it must be defined as by relationship, but this should be secondary to the first mision of the relationship.



wyldsubmissive -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 10:05:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldsubmissive
*blinks twice* Really? Um. *thinks quietly to herself* Because I've always viewed any BDSM/lifestyle partner as being a romantic one also and I have not seperated that in my mind. And I've agreed to give her sole control of my sexual interactions which she's happily marked as hers. To me kissing is one part of that interaction.

*head tilt* Make sense?


Even just saying dom/mentor would likely be enough to avoid the confusion.


Then I shall do that.

I know that I should go to the source with most things, but I tend to get evaluations from outside sources. I'm fond of using people as sounding boards. i.e. Bouncing things off of them to figure out how I feel.

Are you two romantically linked?  Falling in love? That kind of thing?  Or do you feel one way toward her and she doesn't feel the same toward you?

Nope, nope and nope. *huffs and sits back in her chair* Okay, I want a female dominant at this juncture, but I don't want to rush into it going "I'm a sub and u muSt b3at my azz". I want prior knowledge and basic experiences. Among these are generic knowledge of terms, attending a munch or play party as a submissive, or just people watching in those situations. I also feel that discussing ideas and scenarios over with my dom/mentor is something good to do. As is interacting with multiple different people and mentalities. Which is what purpose the forums serve. For example I love the professed Gorean discipline and philosophy but don't agree with 100% of it. Assumably (sp?) I can do that on these forums and get fairly intelligent feedback. This is what my dom/mentor is attempting to do for/with me.


You people make me think too much. *weg* But its good for me, and thank you.



porthuronsub -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 10:07:43 AM)

I think you have to remember that she is human first, dominant second.  Like others have said,  maybe kissing just wasn't on her mind.  maybe she just isn't a big kisser.
My suggestion is to ask her instead of your other friends or this forum.  She is the only one who can give you the answer you are looking for.



wyldsubmissive -> RE: Kissing question, kind've. (2/19/2007 10:08:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bellanotte
In your first post you said your Mentor had no idea why she hadn't kissed you " Her response was that she honestly didn't know why she never did it." (sorry, don't know how to use the quoting thing  *blushes*).... Your last response was "But her exact answer to why she didn't is: "I've never thought about it."
To me .... those are to very different answers. Not having thought about something before doesn't mean that, if I took a moment to think about it, I couldn't figure it out.


There is a row of 3 buttons of the right hand top side of a person post. The one that says "Quote" just needs clicked on and voila! Hope that helps. [:D]

To me those two answers are actually one and the same. But I guess they aren't upon further inspection. *shrugs*



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