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Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psychopath? - 3/17/2005 4:15:32 AM   
medea


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I'm rather new to the sub scene although am well read for obvious reasons. One would rather not be in bondage before she realizes she's just hooked up with Jack the Ripper. Would any caring, honest and genuine Masters out there (or even subs for that matter) afford me the benefit of their experience by advising what to try and look out for other than obvious safety precautions, such as letting a friend know where you are going on a first meet, etc.,

Many thanks
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 4:37:38 AM   
UKCouple4femsub


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I've had similar conversations with subs online. They run something like this:

ME: So what would you do if something happened that you didn't like and wanted me to stop, or change direction?
SUB: Well - you're the master - it's your decision
- or -
SUB: You're the master - you decide what's best for me

This is NOT right. The sub clearly has no idea what they want, and is asking to be a door mat. Alternatively - they are wasting my time. There is a mantra which I'm sure you've heard: Safe, Sane and Consentual

SUB: Umm - I dunno

Again - not very safe, sub doesn't know what they want and needs to give some serious thought about their safety.

SUB: I'd demand that you stopped

Not very realistic. Must subs I know aren't really capable of taking that kind of control back - and if they hit subspace - they can't even speak!

SUB: We'd have to pre-arrange a safe word

BINGO! The right answer. We use two safe words - one meaning slow down (we use roses), the other meaning stop (we use thorns).

To answer your question - if the Dom does not ask this kind of question AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE! They do not have your best interests at heart. Similarly - if you do get asked that question, take it seriously because they probably are.

Likewise, when you are talking to someone online, read carefully what they are saying. If their fantasises do not match up with yours, do not rush into things. Plenty more fish in the sea!

Be safe!

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 5:36:48 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Use the same common sense you've learned in the vanilla world. It's the same thing.

(in reply to UKCouple4femsub)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 6:13:44 AM   
sweetpleaser


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Listen to your inner being. If something doesn't seem right, it most likely isn't. How many times have you heard of victims of social crimes who say they felt something was wrong beforehand? Just be safe.

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 6:36:41 AM   
MsSilvie


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There really is no failsafe way to do anything in life. As far as first meets off the internet go, don't meet someone who you have concerns about. Talk to people long enough to feel comfortable. And go with your gut level feelings, as sweetpleaser says. I recommend a book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker for anyone (not just those planning to meet someone.

If you are meeting someone local, meet in a public vanilla forum first. Make sure someone will be able to easily tell who you went to meet and where, and make sure the person you meet knows that someone else knows where you are. I never make plans to play on the first date, no matter how well things go. Everyone should be willing to go home, and take a breather, and make a decision from there, where there isn't any perceived pressure to do any playing or proceed.

Be honest about your experience level and recognize that you shouldn't feel pushed into something you aren't comfortable with. Dom/mes tend to be pushy, but there is a line that can get crossed with that pushiness. You'll recognize it if someone is being domineering (and not just a Dom/me). Don't think for a minute that you can't say "no" and expect that will be honored.

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 8:47:45 AM   
domtimothy46176


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Taking your time to get to know the person AS a person can be helpful in most cases. Afterall, with your life on the line, are you really prepared to make a rash decision? One would think that a person would spend at LEAST as much time getting to know a potential play partner as one would a vanilla sex partner, but then again I may be dating myself here. Another thought, one that may be relevant in these times, if you don't know the potential partner enough to turn over control of your material goods to him, are you sure you know him well enough to place your life in his hands?
Timothy

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 8:50:59 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: medea
Would any caring, honest and genuine Masters out there (or even subs for that matter) afford me the benefit of their experience by advising what to try and look out for other than obvious safety precautions, such as letting a friend know where you are going on a first meet, etc.,


There are lots of articles out there on the dangers of meeting people irl...google is your friend. However, spotting trolls and psychopaths is not the same topic.

I think the first thing you must ask yourself is "what is my goal?"

Are you looking for an online only thing? If you are, then many people would describe you as a troll, and some might even consider you pathological. *smile*

Are you looking to actually meet people? If you are, then the warning signs should be any clear indication that the person is hiding something. Do you have his/her phone number? Home address? SSN? The more they are willing to give, the less likely they are phoney.

Are you willing to have a relationship with a married person? If not, do they want you to call only at certain times? Are they only available when they are at work? Can you call and get a response at any time of the day or night?

I wouldn't rely on their knowledge of BDSM jargon like safewords. Those things can be picked up with a two hour read of any BDSM beginners book.

Get references if you can. The people who are serious about this tend to network with others.

Personally, I would never play with a person in private until I have played with them in public. It is good to have witnesses that have seen you in a scene with someone.

Everything else is just common sense...the leather world has no special lease on psychos and trolls.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 10:49:37 AM   
medea


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The above has been most helpful and I thank you all for your time and generosity.

I have already been mistaken for a troll and had some rather sh**ty treatment although I'd only been on-line on the site one day. I'm not a doormat and like to choose my dominants wisely. That's already one lesson I've learned and I will look out for people like that in future.

There is a vast difference to a person of a submissive tendency between domination and being domineered. I will always remember to look out for that as a sign.

Luckily for me I'm a strong assertive female with a submissive fetish so am more than ready to say "no", "roses", "red". But I will bear in mind that a sub should always know what she wants. She should even discuss it first in some cases.

Again many thanks for all the information.

Kind Regards



(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 11:19:08 AM   
ARoseAndAnEye


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One thing Master and i have noticed when chatting online with others who claim to be in the scene, is that if the outcome of "chat" is for cyber sex or a cyber scene, then click them off and be done with it.

Just as in the vanilla world, its a getting to know one another process; you need to find out who and what this person is that you are chatting with. If their goal is to get their rocks off with keyboard, then they are NOT for real, and i personally, am very offended by them.

We all know the rules: never NEVER meet somebody privately who you have "met" on the internet. PUBLIC PLACE! Mall.... crowded family restaurant.... TELL SOMEBODY - ANYBODY before you go. And, don't meet somebody for the first time with the intention of play. The initial meeting should be an extension of your conversations and nothing more.

This has all been said a million times before. i am still astounded at the number of people who think they are immune to the danger, and jump in with their eyes wide shut.

~ anna

(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 11:53:05 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARoseAndAnEye

This has all been said a million times before. i am still astounded at the number of people who think they are immune to the danger, and jump in with their eyes wide shut.

~ anna


Those are general good sense rules...and once you understand the situation and feel balanced, feel free to break them at will (except for safe sex, ALWAYS use condoms).

I meet people privately and play first times a LOT. In the beginning it was probably really stupid because I was thinking more with my frenzy and not with my intuition. Now, I have no problems saying yes or no because I AM comfortable saying no to a situation I don't want.

Eventually you get to know yourself and your judgements well enough to make the right adult decision for yourself. Until then, play safer.

(in reply to ARoseAndAnEye)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 2:17:45 PM   
MasterEbonyDlite


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I fully agree that safe words MUST be used when engagin in BDSM play and MUST be agreed prior to making a temporary or lifetime committment to a dom/me or participating in it strictly for the fun of it. It amazes me when I read the profiles of so many dom/mes or even subs/slaves and very few, if any, make mention of using safe words. But the key is COMMUNICATION and any dom/me or sub/slave who doesn't do so is simply asking for trouble later on. Just MHO.

(in reply to UKCouple4femsub)
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a huge difference between a troll and a psychopath - 3/17/2005 2:18:31 PM   
sissymaidlola


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quote:

Are you looking for an online only thing? If you are, then many people would describe you as a troll, and some might even consider you pathological. *smile*.

Then many people would be wrong. There is enough misuse of web and BDSM terminology, Taggard, without helping to propagate it with statements like that ... the irony indicated by Your smile will be lost on most here at CollarMe.

A troll is someone that posts in a provocative manner, usually in order to attract attention to him/herself, but frequently s/he is happy simply to sit back and watch others self-destruct in the ensuing train wreck that results from his/her post(s). The common bottom line amongst all trolls is a desire to entice others to post that normally wouldn't, either directly against them, or disruptively against each other so that they can voyeuristically enjoy the resultant degrading action, in a similar vicarious manner that some folks enjoy women wresting in mud, or episodes of "Jerry Springer" on TV. They derive their pleasure in the same way that many Dominants do ... they get a big cyber rush from knowing that they ultimately caused (i.e., controlled) what resulted - be it a large public brawl, or simply lots of people coming out of the woodwork to post (and possibly bearing their souls) that would not normally post, or folks responding directly to their own posts (thereby granting them immediate feedback attention). Usually there is an element of all three rewards involved for the consummate troll.

For a troll, it's all about them and their enjoyment of their considerable ability to push people's buttons and remotely control the actions and thinking of others ... they get the same power rush from the knowledge that either their posts and/or threads are "popular" (i.e., get lots of hits and replies), or that they can flame someone else's thread into the gutter and ultimate closure / deletion. In fact, the second most common method of making their own threads "popular" - the first most common method being to make the initial topic of the thread totally contentious and unresolvable (e.g., abortion, gun control, "all men suck", etc.) - is to flame their own thread (either single-handedly, but more normally with the aid of sock puppets) and to then control the burn. Although trolls may rejoice in the total demise of someone else's thread, they also like to bask in the glory of seeing their own handiwork hang around still collecting hits, so they will normally restrain themselves from completely flaming their own thread into being locked and deleted (but that is usually something that even a troll cannot control if they flame it too much, or the moderators get wise to them).

Although we use the expression "trolling for sex" this is really a cyber-corruption of the real life term "trawling for sex" ... most trolls as defined above are NOT interested in the relentless pursuit of cyber-sex or in setting up, via the internet, real life meetings so that they can victimize that person in some way (as a psychopath would). The use of the term "troll" to refer to cyber-sex seekers and psychopaths using the web to locate victims (such as pedophiles looking to locate children online that they can subsequently meet in rea life) is a complete misuse of the term "troll" IsHO. sissy Has seen someone called a troll simply because they posted a contrary position to a post. sissy, Himself, has even been called a troll because his posts are provocative ... but they are not provocative in the same sense described above, but provocative in the sense that your posts are, Taggard, meaning intellectually stimulating because of the information they impart. That is NOT the same thing as trolling at all ...

Although trolls and cyber-sex seekers are both socially annoying - and we may go as far as to call them sociopaths - to call either of these phenomena psychopaths might be going way too far. Similarly, someone looking for "an online only thing" is also not a troll. They may be someone that is simply way deep "in the closet" that is using a site such as this one to reach out and socialize from the safety of their cyber-anonymity. If things look like they will become too real for them, they may get cold feet and back off and/or completely disappear. Although this may be annoying to the other party(ies) concerned - and may also be considered by some to be dishonest and lacking integrity - it is hardly as pernicious as being a real troll or as dangerous as being a psychopath.

So let's get accurate with the terminology, folks ... simply because someone is provocative, or posts a contrary opinion to yours, or is posting from way at the back of the closet, or is even seeking cyber sex, that does NOT make them a troll - let alone a psychopath !!

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola





_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 2:29:41 PM   
sissymaidlola


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quote:

but then again I may be dating myself here.

Ooooh, sissy thinks that that, right there, captures the whole essence of the transvestite experience, Sir !

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola





_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/17/2005 2:53:13 PM   
SweetDommes


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*disclaimer cuz I'm not reading the whole thread, sorry*

I know that people have pointed out safewords for play, which is an absolute must, and that for the first meeting it should be in a public place ... (or more than that, actually ... people can hide their true selves for awhile, as shown by the sub who met with someone in a public place the first time, it went well and when she went back, she met him at a hotel - they found her body 3 days later) - but has anyone mentioned safecalls?

Before you go meet them, get their name, phone number(s), a description of what they will be wearing, a relatively recent pic, etc and tell someone that you trust, along with where you are going to be, and what time you will call them. If anything - anything at all - changes in that plan, let your safecall know ... like if you get there and the person you are meeting is wearing something different than expected, or if he/she calls at the last minute and says "I can't meet you there, lets meet at this restaraunt instead" ... Call your safecall at the arranged time, if you are still with the person you met, then say something like "things are going well/ok/whatever and I'll call you again at X time." Make sure that whoever you are meeting with knows that you are doing this - for reasonable people, it will make them feel better, and they will have their own safecalls set up. We tell anyone that we meet that they should have them, and we give them all the information that they need willingly - and we require it of them, although with two of us going every time, for the entire "date" it significantly lessens the chances of us being victimized.

I would suggest public places and safecalls for at least the first 3 meetings - but then again, I'm paranoid.

(in reply to sissymaidlola)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/18/2005 4:21:02 PM   
Tristan


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Go on a long walk, canoe trip, or camping trip in the cold and the rain or other adverse conditions. The harder and more unpleasant the trip, the better. Its easy for someone to pretend to be something that they are not when you are just sitting around talking. Its an entirely different situation when you have to actually interact with someone.

I once met a woman whose entire life was a complete fabrication. She married a friend from college. Their marrage lasted only a couple months, and then her tangled web of lies started to untangle. Afterwards, I thought about how she was able to fool everyone, and realized that she never really did anything except sit around and talk about her life. Once she had to interact with her new husband, her entire life started to fall apart.

I doubt that a psychopath or troll will be able to hide their true nature very long when out in the rain and cold.

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/18/2005 5:03:18 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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That definitely would be paranoid for me and make me wonder if I'd suddenly become a 13 year old, the last time my own mom required more than one check-in when I went out on my own.

I think letting someone know where you're likely going and when you're likely to be back is just good manners and sense. I do this even with my housemates if I go away for a few days, just so they don't worry.

But remember what safe calls can and can't do. I've seen too many people use someone across the country they met in a chatroom as a safecall. What's to stop the person from going psycho after you've made your call?

The only thing safecalls do is let someone know where to start looking for the body. Use them, but understand what exactly you're using.

Be aware, be independent. Personally if I feel I have to make a safecall to meet someone, I just won't meet them, I won't take that risk. But I do meet lots of people on my own all the time. I'm still happy.

(in reply to Tristan)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/18/2005 7:14:08 PM   
proudsub


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These threads might helps some:

first meeting guidelines

playing on a first meeting

how does one protect themselves...first meeting

thrill vs danger on first meeting

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to medea)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/18/2005 7:32:02 PM   
MsSilvie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

But remember what safe calls can and can't do. I've seen too many people use someone across the country they met in a chatroom as a safecall. What's to stop the person from going psycho after you've made your call?

The only thing safecalls do is let someone know where to start looking for the body. Use them, but understand what exactly you're using.


Exactly. The other person knowing you have a safe call system in place does far more for your safety than actually activating it. Don't be shy about asking for info about the other person. Keep a list of where you plan to go, and all the contact info for the other person where someone will be able to find it easily.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/18/2005 7:42:11 PM   
MsSilvie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UKCouple4femsub
SUB: We'd have to pre-arrange a safe word

BINGO! The right answer. We use two safe words - one meaning slow down (we use roses), the other meaning stop (we use thorns).



I always play with a safeword in effect. And Heaven knows you don't have to use it to get me to either stop or modify what's going on. I would like to point out that a safeword isn't a fail safe device either. Subspace can be treacherous territory. A lot of bottoms can get very non-verbal. Some of them just don't think of using a safeword, even when it's obvious to someone impartial to the situation that they should use it. It's difficult many times to gauge just where a new and unfamiliar bottom is, head-wise. So until you know each other really well, I think a top should be reasonably conservative about activity.

Take some time, discuss what you want to do before you get started. Stick with this, regardless of how much the bottom may want to go past those limits once you are playing. You can't renegotiate once you are underway, the sub may not be able to really give consent. If you want to go further, harder, faster.... that's to be discussed before the next time you play.

(in reply to UKCouple4femsub)
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RE: Are there any failsafe ways to spot a troll or psyc... - 3/19/2005 5:41:12 AM   
sweetpleaser


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That is a very good idea Tristan. I understand what you are suggesting. I would add, however, to bring a friend along because camping alone with a possible psychopath is not good for your health. You are very correct that you do not know someone's true character unless they are faced with adverse conditions.

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to Tristan)
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