rape/submission

rape/submission (Full Version)

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subjolynn -> rape/submission (3/19/2005 10:47:44 PM)
i have a friend that was raped, and asked how i could be a sub. and asked how she can open up and be sexual with her husben it was 20 years ago that she was raped. it is all bottled up in side her. She has done councling. but she thinks a sub is like being raped or beat. i tried to explane to her that is what i need and not because i was raped or beat when i was younger. If and one can help please feel free to help me help her if we can.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 12:56:28 AM)
Tell her to talk to her husband about it, talk to her counselor about it and find some local munch groups about it.

CitizenCane -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 9:12:27 AM)
subjolynn, trauma is a very special kind of experience. It does strange and interesting things to the brain (and of course, to the mind as well). There is a threshold, different for everyone, between a 'bad experience' and a 'traumatic experience'. Trauma doesn't heal easily, it takes a lot of work and care- and it involves recovering the original pain and processing it. Trauma victims tend to shy away from this, and their pain gets buried deep in their psyches where they can not easily see the way in which it affects their perceptions and reactions. Many mental health professionals have a poor understanding of trauma, it's possible ramifications and treatments. Your friend needs to find one that really does understand trauma and do some healing work (IMHO, etc). D/s still may make no sense to her when she's done, but it sounds like right now her trauma keeps her from seeing how something could work for you, even if it doesn't work for her. For your part, you might recognize that your early experiences do have something to do with your submission, with shaping what you 'need'. This does not mean that what you need is to be raped and beaten, or that you're sick and twisted as a result of your early experiences. It simply means that all of us are who we are because of the intersection of our natures with our experiences. Letting ourselves see how this has come about is generally empowering, not limiting. Citizen Cane

duskysub -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 12:11:19 PM)
MM I have to say that I agree with Citizen Kane. Until she has dealt with and healed from the trauma of her rape she cannot move on, in any lifestyle. And she certainly isn't ready to see this one as it is. Her trauma would bias everything she saw, read, or heard. Rape councilors come in many shapes and sizes :D but it sounds to me like she would be better with one who has been there, in other words, a recovering or recovered rape victim that is not quite so clinical in their approach. I have seen this work for others amazingly well, myself included. BB Rowan

cynthiamarie -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 2:17:37 PM)
The best help i ever got was when i was in deep crisis...and i called a suicide prevention hotline. i was so lucky...the woman i spoke with was unlike any counselor i'd ever talked with before; she had been raped too and was recovering from it. She understood all the things i was going through like nobody else could. Unless someone has either been there themselves, or have had a loved one go through it and have had to be there for them and help them recover, there's something missing from the therapy. That's just my opinion though...i'm sure there are some who are empathic enough to help someone heal, even though all their "experience" was just book learning. She needs to call a rape crisis center, because a lot of them hold group sessions for rape victims...with no time limits as to when it happened, at no cost. It's very healing to hear a dozen other people tell their story and know that all the shiite you're going through is just a common reaction, and that you're really not as all alone in your own private hell as you thought you were. Plus, she'd have friends that really understand panic attacks, recurring nightmares, night terrors, and running into an unexpected trigger that sets everything off. Once she talks with others, it should make it easier to talk about it to her hubby; and he might be able to speak with the husbands of some of the other women and compare notes on what works and what doesn't.

SirKenin -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 7:15:18 PM)
Does this every sound familiar... I can tell you from experience that until she deals with it, rather than buries it, every time the guy does something that's even remotely close it's going to trigger that memory and she could very well accuse Him of rape. She has to get psychological help. Being in a D/s relationship and having the Dom taking control is just a bomb waiting to explode. Not that I've been there or anything. [&o]

Overlord218 -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 8:04:39 PM)
20 years is a very long time to carry it inside. Until she (somehow) comes to terms with it, she can never understand or comprehend. A friend who'd been sexually abused by her father had a similar problem. She underwent psychotherapy which (seemed) to help her. Maybe you should mention that as an option. At the end of the day though, the only one who can sort it out is her, and no amount of anything will help IMHO. Sounds harsh, I know, but reality bites.

FLButtSlut -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 8:39:57 PM)
I got the impression that this is a vanilla friend who is simply questioning how you can consent to partake in the life that you have chosen...her questioning you for help with her intimacy issues with her husband being those of a friend looking to a friend for help. Obviously, the counseling that she has gotten has not worked for her. Often, one must change counselors several times (in your friend's case, perhaps dozens) of times before finding one with whom they "click". A rape crisis center is her best start. I don't know how long she has been married, but her husband should participate in the counseling as well. Was her attacker ever caught and prosecuted? Part of her lingering issues could be a result of this not happening, and her having an ongoing fear because of lack of closure. Your lifestyle choices are nothing more than a way of her choosing something that was allowing her to open up to you. Be grateful that she felt you were a good enough friend to talk to and guide her to the proper counselors. As for your lifestyle and her questions about it, simply explain that everyone is different, and you want to help her heal HER pain, because that is what is really important for you as her friend. Just be there for her and listen to whatever she wants to talk about, and answer questions as best you can about your choices, even though she really just wants you to help her through her pain. Good luck, and my prayers are with your friend. She has been carrying this all around for a very long time which will make it harder to get through. She will need all your support.

subjolynn -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 11:17:13 PM)
I had her over today and she read some of your all's post and she see the diffrence. Of me being in this life style. SHE CRIED KNOWING YOU ARE ALL HERE GIVING SUPORT. She will keep reading as long as you all are willing to help. I have another friend that has gone threw this too and is willing to talk to her. I will be here for her to to have a shoulder to cry on. I thank you all for your suport.

SirKenin -> RE: rape/submission (3/20/2005 11:59:58 PM)
There's a key difference between being raped and submitting to sex and I've noticed noone else picked up on it. I didn't either the first time I read your post. She asked how you can be a sub and how it's different from being raped. With being raped control is forcibly taken from the woman. With being a sub the control is given by the woman. Big difference. However it can be such a fine line in real life, especially by a woman that has actually been raped in the past, that any event that's remotely similar in nature will trigger a dramatic negative reaction. I am sad to say that I have been through this. I was actually accused of rape when nothing of the sort happened. It ultimately finished off O/our relationship. It has turned out to have a profound impact on Me and has been rubbed in My face several times since. This is the precise reason why I refuse to take control over the initiation of sex ever since. Either it's mutual confirmation by very clear and precise visual and/or oral communication or it doesn't happen. Of course once W/we start, then I assume control. I truly don't know if I will ever feel comfortable taking control over initiating sex again. For these reasons I strongly encourage this woman to seek exhaustive psychological counselling. Not only for her sake, but also for her husband's. [image]local://upfiles/60308/BBB87C4D63124270909089ECF89A8F3E.jpg[/image]

srahfox -> RE: rape/submission (3/21/2005 8:35:04 AM)
Everyone here has been pretty much absolutely correct. Saddly she really may have to jump from therapist to therapist. Many of them just want to medicate. I had a friend who basically was given one medication after anouther to 'deal' with her rape problems. But not a one accually helped her deal with the trama. Once she finally started to deal with her past (With my help and other victums help, as well as AA. She's become an alcoholic early to deal with the Rape) Things started to slowly get better. I was very lucky I guess.. my Master/Husband was there for me and helped me work through my problems in the first 3 years of our relationship. Ten years later and it's been years sence I've really been hit by what happened to me. It's certainly still there but it doesn't rule my life anymore. She really needs to be around other people who have been where she is. Her husband definately needs to be there with her and help.

Mercnbeth -> RE: rape/submission (3/21/2005 9:20:48 AM)
quote: She has done councling. but she thinks a sub is like being raped or beat. consensuality is the name of the game with being submissive. uncontrollable rage is the bottom line with rape. two very different things. Counselling can be done by a variety of people, not just someone with initials after their name----a priest or priestess, a friend, or someone who has been able to come to grips with and conquer the demons of their past who has been in a similar situation---the key is trust. she needs to be able to trust the person that she confides in. just because someone has a degree in psychology or psychiatry doesn't necessarily mean they are trustworthy, just like going to one, or several does not necessarily mean someone will be "cured". too often people seek out professional therapists thinking that just by going, they will be helped, however it is a two-way street....all the therapists and recovery groups in the world can't help you until you are ready to be helped and to move on. therapy comes in many forms. some therapists have fur and paws, others have credentials. the most important aspects of this slave's recovery from the traumatic events in her past have been kind friends who are good listeners, opportunities to help others, cuddly furry friends, time to heal and a firm belief in God and the fact that what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. it is this slave's opinion that a husband is more than just someone you are contractually obligated to under the law. their lives are intimately intertwined and he is directly involved in her present and future, so he should definitely be involved in whatever process helps her to move on from her past. she is not alone, and she is in this slave's prayers!

desoutter -> RE: rape/submission (3/23/2005 4:42:09 AM)
I am just amazed by the quality / understanding of the people on this site. I am new to this area with many years of experience as a Dom - but the encouragement and understanding by all is just amazing to me. What has not been said? - Inner demons can be as horrible as can be imagined. No other person may understand what demons lie within you. These demons are unforgiving - relentless - ruthless. However they can be beaten, controlled - released. It takes time... It takes determination. My own experience involves a sub relationship I had with a young woman who had been raped in the past - had never delt with her own inner demons but desired situations I knew were not healthy for her (without going into great detail - ). As her friend - first and foremost - I could not allow her to explore these scenarios... She said I was a bad dom and moved on. Years later I caught up with her and found she had gotton some help. Rape crisis center was first and foremost for her and friends she had made with similar experiences were able to help her through understanding... support... When I look back on that experience... I realize how lucky I was in perceiving this... and following through on my gut instinct. Certain d's in the area I lived would have taken full advantage of her weakened state and exploited it to their own benefit. What I admire most about her, as a sub, was that she made the effort to identify her needs and pursue them. It was costly for her but she came out on top. It just took some time and a lot of effort. In summary - No woman with an experience like rape in her past or some other abuse that causes trauma to the psyche... can even remotely begin to understand a submissive or a dominant relationship. This lifestyle can be a trial by fire at times - it can also be very rewarding - but the core relationship must be sound... solid... full of trust... a desire to explore... richness... and these are all traits destroyed by certain acts of violence. They can be repaired - relearned - enjoyed - but it takes time.... energy... focus... and HELP! I hope this helps - desoutter

wildangel1012003 -> RE: rape/submission (4/29/2005 6:20:45 AM)
as a woman who was raped at the age of 15 and at the time still a virgin, i can understand your friends pain and cunfusion. it took me many years to come to terms with what happened to me . My late husband was very abussive even in the bedrrom. we had a purly vinilla relationship. becouse of the rape and abusse even after being married and having children, i still could not enjoy sex. it took many years and a lot of tears, and a very speacial man who ' decided" to show me that sex did not mean " pain and abusse' i have since learned that for me being in this life style, there are limits to what i can handle and enjoy. but to be bale to trust a man and give him control over my body , has been very liberating for me . the ability to let loose and not be afriad of every touch , is pure heaven! i never had any professional conceling. just good friends and family and being able to talk it out when i came to a place thati coudl take about it. it may take time , but your friend will get past it. she may( i do) always have some fear, and some reactions to things that others woudl not , unless they have lived through that. but given time and support she will be bale to have a fullfilling life. good luck to her [:)]

dragonofjapan -> RE: rape/submission (4/30/2005 7:10:59 PM)
I would tell her there are two things. One there are no accidents. Two there are lessons. Her rape was not an accident. Ask her to keep asking herself what was the lesson. Her subconscious mind knows the answer. An experienced NLP/ Erricsonian hypnotherapist could greatly speed the process.

subjolynn -> RE: rape/submission (5/3/2005 11:20:36 AM)
i think you are wrong rape is rape and she did not have control

darkinshadows -> RE: rape/submission (5/3/2005 12:59:27 PM)
Forgive me if I am wrong, but jolynn, I don't believe that is what Zip was saying. Nobody said she had control persay - but she has control now of the situation. There is the difference. I truely believe that there are no mistakes. If, as a person, you can focus on the lesson to be learnt from the experience, then you win over the person that commited the offense. To allow it to rule your life, or effect your life in any way - is just allowing you to loose more control. You cannot 'deal' with rape. It is not something you can ever forget and let go. But you can move on from it. Big difference. Just to survive where she has gotten today shows how much stronger she is than the crime. There is a lesson right there. And she should be so proud of herself for not letting the situation to have destroyed her there and then. People have no idea how strong you have to be to even question what happened to you in such a situation. She didn't lose the control, it was stolen from her, yet she still has it in her hands and she has the power to take it back. And when she asks what the difference is between rape and submission - it is consensuality and control. In rape, neither of those things exist. Peace and Love

subcheryl -> RE: rape/submission (5/3/2005 5:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth . Counselling can be done by a variety of people, not just someone with initials after their name----a priest or priestess, a friend, or someone who has been able to come to grips with and conquer the demons of their past who has been in a similar situation---the key is trust. she needs to be able to trust the person that she confides in. just because someone has a degree in psychology or psychiatry doesn't necessarily mean they are trustworthy, just like going to one, or several does not necessarily mean someone will be "cured". therapy comes in many forms. some therapists have fur and paws, others have credentials. the most important aspects of this slave's recovery from the traumatic events in her past have been kind friends who are good listeners, opportunities to help others, cuddly furry friends, time to heal and a firm belief in God and the fact that what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. she is not alone, and she is in this slave's prayers! I agree, not all are professional. I was not raped, but had alot of other types of trama in my life. I kept alot of things locked up inside of me and by the grace of God, was led to a beautiful Pastor and his wife, and a downsyndrome son of 12 yrs old. These beautiful people were able to help me start to share some of the things in my life that were making me an emotional cripple, I TRUSTED them with my emotional wellbeing and they did not fail me, Their son had a beautiful gift of laughter and hugs that did more to heal the inside of me than I think all the previous counseling I had done. When I was feeling overstressed and unloved, I would go to them and the first thing I would hear is the sons laughter and then I would get a huge hug from him, and even when I was crying it wasn't long before I was giggling with him and feeling oh so much better. then I could talk of what was bothering me, and get it out in the open, they became the mom and dad I did not have, we no longer are able to speak face to face and I no longer can physically hear the laughter of the son, but in my mind I can, and when things get bad I can go there and I can feel the hug and hear the laughter. so yes it is important to be able to trust those you turn to for help, and not all are trained professionals some by their very nature are natural healers. So I wish the best for this woman and in you I hope she has found that refuge she seeks. I too will pray for her.

MastersRobHunter -> RE: rape/submission (5/4/2005 6:41:04 AM)
I'm a male & was gang raped when I was in high school by 3 other males & I never told anyone, nor did I suffer any "Emotional damage", I wasn't afraid to go back to school or anything. What's so bad about being raped?

siamsa24 -> RE: rape/submission (5/4/2005 6:43:18 AM)
This makes me wonder if it really was a rape. In my experiences (which I won't go into detail on in a public forum) rape of any kind is scaring. Even if the person puts up a "block" and attempts to forget the incident. Perhaps my professors and text books are wrong, but they both agree with me on this one. In addition, please do not brush off these girl's sufferings as nothing, I can only hope that they find the healing that they seek

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