RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses

RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:10:21 PM)
Since "America" as it exists bears no resemblance to "America-The Documentation", I think the appropriate response to "Leave" is, "Let's Pimpslap the Feds back into submission".

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate. A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers. I dont have them. They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts. I look confused. I get hauled off to Gitmo. Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo. You cant because as a citizen and not an enemy combatant you have rights here. But having to identify yourself to the police is a requirement. as in HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause." Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me? Was a surf board reported stolen? Do you give off an odor of an illegal substance? Im sure that there are dozens of reasons to Terry stop you. So much for "Land of the Free" and "Home of the Brave". Americans are such cowards, the way they fear everyone so much they need to play "It's a valid Terry Stop" games to justify their Police State.

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:15:00 PM)
quote: Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo. You cant because as a citizen and not an enemy combatant you have rights here. But having to identify yourself to the police is a requirement. as in HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA As per the Cuba/US Treaty, Gitmo is US JURISDICTION. As per the 14th Amendment, ALL PERSONS in that Jurisdiction are guaranteed Equal Protection of the Laws. Under the 5th, All PERSONS get Due Process. What's "Due Process" or "Equal Protection" about holding people in US JURISDICTION ( protected via the 14th Amendment) for years without an arraignment when YOU in any State in the nation are pretty much guaranteed a court appearance within 72 hours?

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:17:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate. A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers. I dont have them. They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts. I look confused. I get hauled off to Gitmo. Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo. You cant because as a citizen and not an enemy combatant you have rights here. But having to identify yourself to the police is a requirement. as in HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause." Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me? Was a surf board reported stolen? Do you give off an odor of an illegal substance? Im sure that there are dozens of reasons to Terry stop you. So much for "Land of the Free" and "Home of the Brave". Americans are such cowards, the way they fear everyone so much they need to play "It's a valid Terry Stop" games to justify their Police State. I see, only criminals have rights, in your leftwing version of america.

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:20:05 PM)
Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. The Constitution LIMITS the Federal Government to only the delegated powers. Yeah, Leftwing. I'm so far RIGHT, Bush is a Socialist ( No Child Gets Ahead... )

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:32:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo. You cant because as a citizen and not an enemy combatant you have rights here. But having to identify yourself to the police is a requirement. as in HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA As per the Cuba/US Treaty, Gitmo is US JURISDICTION. Wrong, WASHINGTON — In a victory for the White House, a U.S. appeals court Tuesday threw out the legal claims brought on behalf of the hundreds of prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay and ruled that they did not have a right to plead their innocence in an American court. In a 2-1 decision, the judges said the Constitution did not extend the right of habeas corpus to noncitizens held outside the sovereign territory of this country. "Cuba — not the United States — has sovereignty over Guantanamo Bay," Judge A. Raymond Randolph wrote. As per the 14th Amendment, ALL PERSONS in that Jurisdiction are guaranteed Equal Protection of the Laws. Under the 5th, All PERSONS get Due Process. What's "Due Process" or "Equal Protection" about holding people in US JURISDICTION ( protected via the 14th Amendment) for years without an arraignment when YOU in any State in the nation are pretty much guaranteed a court appearance within 72 hours? These amendments only apply to citizens here in the US.

juliaoceania -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:36:38 PM)
quote: What's "Due Process" or "Equal Protection" about holding people in US JURISDICTION ( protected via the 14th Amendment) for years without an arraignment when YOU in any State in the nation are pretty much guaranteed a court appearance within 72 hours? These amendments only apply to citizens here in the US. I know the talking heads you listen to want you to believe that the constitution only applied to citizens, but that is not true... it applies to people anywhere the US constitution applies

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:38:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. Careful your lefty friends may start to avoid you should you reveal that you belive in a higher power. Most lib's only use religion as a punch line. The Constitution LIMITS the Federal Government to only the delegated powers. Yeah, Leftwing. I'm so far RIGHT, Bush is a Socialist ( No Child Gets Ahead... )

juliaoceania -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:41:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. Careful your lefty friends may start to avoid you should you reveal that you belive in a higher power. Most lib's only use religion as a punch line. The Constitution LIMITS the Federal Government to only the delegated powers. Yeah, Leftwing. I'm so far RIGHT, Bush is a Socialist ( No Child Gets Ahead... ) I have more in common with libertarians than with Democrats... so much for your small boxes of left v right.. some of us just know it is all a bunch of made up debate to divide and conquer the people... if we are busy beating each other up then we are not paying attention to things such as private corporations running detention camps on US soil with no oversight from the outside.

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:42:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: What's "Due Process" or "Equal Protection" about holding people in US JURISDICTION ( protected via the 14th Amendment) for years without an arraignment when YOU in any State in the nation are pretty much guaranteed a court appearance within 72 hours? These amendments only apply to citizens here in the US. I know the talking heads you listen to want you to believe that the constitution only applied to citizens, but that is not true... it applies to people anywhere the US constitution applies Could you document this? The courts have shown the opposite in fact. Of course I am open to seeing facts from you, not the traditional, gee I wish it was this way. Or I feel it should be this way.

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:43:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. Careful your lefty friends may start to avoid you should you reveal that you belive in a higher power. Most lib's only use religion as a punch line. Do you mean to come across as an ignorant bigot, buying into the basest stereotypes imaginable, or is this a gag?

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:44:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. Careful your lefty friends may start to avoid you should you reveal that you belive in a higher power. Most lib's only use religion as a punch line. The Constitution LIMITS the Federal Government to only the delegated powers. Yeah, Leftwing. I'm so far RIGHT, Bush is a Socialist ( No Child Gets Ahead... ) I have more in common with libertarians than with Democrats... so much for your small boxes of left v right.. some of us just know it is all a bunch of made up debate to divide and conquer the people... if we are busy beating each other up then we are not paying attention to things such as private corporations running detention camps on US soil with no oversight from the outside. Please name one.

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/24/2007 11:48:20 PM)
quote: Could you document this? The courts have shown the opposite in fact. Lots of courts have rules a lot of ways. In a Constitutional Republic, however the CITIZEN is Sovereign, above and beyond the State and Federal governments. The Constitution of the United States uses PERSON and CITIZEN in contexts which make it clear that they meant CITIZEN and PERSON as used in that document. The 5th Amendment, for example, provides that PERSONS get due process, while the first clause of the 14th Amendment specifies what CITIZENS are, then goes beyond that limited definition and extending Equal Protection to ALL PERSONS.

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 12:03:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: Could you document this? The courts have shown the opposite in fact. Lots of courts have rules a lot of ways. In a Constitutional Republic, however the CITIZEN is Sovereign, above and beyond the State and Federal governments. Under this theory We as citizens get to interpet the laws for ourselves and judge whether they apply to us? I'll have to remember that next time for traffic court. It hasnt worked in the past. The Constitution of the United States uses PERSON and CITIZEN in contexts which make it clear that they meant CITIZEN and PERSON as used in that document. The 5th Amendment, for example, provides that PERSONS get due process, while the first clause of the 14th Amendment specifies what CITIZENS are, then goes beyond that limited definition and extending Equal Protection to ALL PERSONS. So the answer is no then, you cant show like I have. That the Constitution does not extend the right of habeas corpus to noncitizens held outside the sovereign territory of this country This ruling was from a federal appeals court, Im sure it will be appealed to the supreme court. But until then thats the law. Your interpetations of the constituton, while fervid rarely hold water.

juliaoceania -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 12:06:20 AM)
Raymondvillle TX

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 12:19:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo. You cant because as a citizen and not an enemy combatant you have rights here. But having to identify yourself to the police is a requirement. as in HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA As per the Cuba/US Treaty, Gitmo is US JURISDICTION. Wrong, WASHINGTON — In a victory for the White House, a U.S. appeals court Tuesday threw out the legal claims brought on behalf of the hundreds of prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay and ruled that they did not have a right to plead their innocence in an American court. Appeals Court? Like they fucking matter? And they KNOW their decision is pointless, because it's going to the Supremes anyway. That aside, what's wrong with thinking for YOURSELF? or do you enjoy giving up the responsibility and duty of a Citizen to pay attention to things like the Strict Construction of the Constitution to some hazy "Interpretation" handed down as if by Moses? quote: As per the 14th Amendment, ALL PERSONS in that Jurisdiction are guaranteed Equal Protection of the Laws. Under the 5th, All PERSONS get Due Process. What's "Due Process" or "Equal Protection" about holding people in US JURISDICTION ( protected via the 14th Amendment) for years without an arraignment when YOU in any State in the nation are pretty much guaranteed a court appearance within 72 hours? These amendments only apply to citizens here in the US. Then why does it say PERSON and not CITIZEN? And it says NOTHING about where a person must be, excepting Jurisdiction, which is the VERY WORD used in the Cuba Treaty.

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 12:24:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: Could you document this? The courts have shown the opposite in fact. Lots of courts have rules a lot of ways. In a Constitutional Republic, however the CITIZEN is Sovereign, above and beyond the State and Federal governments. Under this theory We as citizens get to interpet the laws for ourselves and judge whether they apply to us? I'll have to remember that next time for traffic court. It hasnt worked in the past. The Constitution of the United States uses PERSON and CITIZEN in contexts which make it clear that they meant CITIZEN and PERSON as used in that document. The 5th Amendment, for example, provides that PERSONS get due process, while the first clause of the 14th Amendment specifies what CITIZENS are, then goes beyond that limited definition and extending Equal Protection to ALL PERSONS. So the answer is no then, you cant show like I have. That the Constitution does not extend the right of habeas corpus to noncitizens held outside the sovereign territory of this country This ruling was from a federal appeals court, Im sure it will be appealed to the supreme court. But until then thats the law. Your interpetations of the constituton, while fervid rarely hold water. That might be the opinion of an illiterate who cannot trust their own poor reading comprehension. However, everyone else clearly understand that PERSON and CITIZEN are two different things, and when the word PERSON is used it does not mean CITIZEN, it means PERSON. I don't know HOW anyone considered literate can get that confused. We learned not to mix up words that simple in like first grade. Excepting the Dyslexic kids.

Sternhand4 -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 12:34:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Raymondvillle TX I did a search and found this The government has also created an immigrant detention center in Raymondville, Texas, just a few kilometers (miles) from the Mexican border, where 2,000 detainees live in big tents without windows awaiting deportation. I'm going to hazard a guess that this is what your refering to. If I'm wrong on the site please let me know. Your quote from above "such as private corporations running detention camps on US soil with no oversight from the outside. " Again not true Its a goverment run not private. They are holding Illegal immigrants for deportation hearings. I suppose youd rather them held at a holiday inn? We are supposed to enforce our laws, and those laws apply to illegal immigrants too. It would be faster just to deport them, without a trial, would that be more preferable?

farglebargle -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 1:26:33 AM)
Do JUST a little more RESEARCH, you know ORIGINAL THOUGHT, and look what we can learn! http://www.mtctrains.com/corrections/facilities_willacy.php Willacy County Regional Detention Facility 1601 Buffalo Drive Raymondville, TX 78580 956-689-5099 Fax: 956-689-5075 Contracting Agency: U.S. Marshals Service Security Level: Multi-custody Rated Capacity: 540 inmates ( Well, we know why they're in tents, I'm guessing our Tax Dollars haven't paid these guys to finish building yet. Our Own little Camp-X-Ray right here... ) More than half of the states and the federal government have contracted with private sector companies to operate about 120,000 beds in more than 140 adult secure facilities. Why have these government agencies privatized their corrections operations? PRIVATE CORRECTIONS DELIVERS IMPROVE ACCOUNTABILITY, COSTS, QUALITY, AND OUTCOMES Private corrections operators are subject to higher quality standards, including day-to-day management, safety, staff training and inmate program outcomes.

cjenny -> RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses (2/25/2007 1:35:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Leftwing! That's funny. Here's a hint. OUR RIGHTS COME FROM OUR CREATOR, EVERYONE HAS THEM. Careful your lefty friends may start to avoid you should you reveal that you belive in a higher power. Most lib's only use religion as a punch line. The Constitution LIMITS the Federal Government to only the delegated powers. Yeah, Leftwing. I'm so far RIGHT, Bush is a Socialist ( No Child Gets Ahead... ) I have more in common with libertarians than with Democrats... so much for your small boxes of left v right.. some of us just know it is all a bunch of made up debate to divide and conquer the people... if we are busy beating each other up then we are not paying attention to things such as private corporations running detention camps on US soil with no oversight from the outside. I haven't had any coffee yet.. I thought you typed LIBRARIANS haha.

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